Introduce the X-Men to the MCU

[bat39]

It is probably the Wolverine from Deadpool 2.

The only Wolverine who appeared in Deadpool 2 is the one from footage from Origins who's the same as the Wolverine in all the other films.

I think its either the Wolverine of the post-DOFP timeline (who's also technically the one from the other films, but likely not the one from Logan.) Or maybe the one from the earth where Binary ended up.

It will be several years before Secret War. I don't expect new X-Men cast before then, but rather bringing back the Foxmen for little nostalgia plays. But yeah, eventually, the whole thing will be reset. I don't think there's even an audience to lose at the moment. The MCU films have been rather stagnant of late. They will be lucky to bring in a huge audience for Secret War. I guess we'll just have to see how Deadpool and Wolvie do this summer, then we'll have a better idea of what's going on. I mean, as much as we all seem to love X-Men '97, and as well as it does on social media, it has yet to make a splash on the Nielsen's ratings chart. The old MCU may well be past saving. But a brand new MCU, with new X-Men, new Avengers, and everything interconnected tightly again, maybe they could pull off an MCU2.0?

Honestly, I think an X-men reboot is probably the only thing which can restore the MCU to its old glory. Even rehashing the glory days of the Avengers won't cut it beyond a point. Once the nostalgia-fest leading upto Secret Wars is over, I think audiences may be more excited by the prospect of a new Cyclops, Storm, Rogue etc. than the prospect of a new Tony Stark.

I would just say it was too unfocused. Like they had a germ of an idea with this Multiverse stuff, but lost focus somewhere through.

I think there's a sense that they don't know what they're building up to anymore. The previous three phases were all building upto something, and collectively they were all building upto Thanos. Phase 4 seemed more like an Infinity Saga coda than anything else. Like "the glory days are over, here's us experimenting with what's left of the sandbox".

Nothing wrong with that either. But the quality of individual films matter too. Phase 2 also seemed to lack focus compared to Phase 1 and Phase 3. But it had films like Iron Man 3, The Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy. The only truly standout film from Phase 4, IMO, was No Way Home (technically a Sony Spider-Man film), and maybe Wakanda Forever.

The shows have also taken away some of the focus I feel.

Fassbender and McAvoy failed to resonate with audiences. There's a reason every prequel film, besides DOFP, was considered a financial disappointment or outright failure. DOFP was actually greenlighted specifically for the purpose of bringing back the OG cast because of the prequel cast's failure to resonate. Originally First Class was a trilogy and DOFP was being set for the final film. When First Class underperformed and audiences showed a dislike for a soft reboot of the franchise, Fox decided to skip straight ahead to DOFP in order to capitalize on bringing back the original cast and it worked for that one film. But they second they reverted back to the prequel cast, the films started doing poorly again.

For general audiences, Xavier and Magneto are synonymous with Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen. McAvoy and Fassbender don't even come into the picture (and frankly, I never felt Fassbender even remotely came across like a young McKellen's Magneto. It's even more notable in DOFP where I can see the link between McAvoy and Stewart but Fassbender feels like a completely different character in comparison to McKellen).

This is also why all the promised cameos and returns for Deadpool & Wolverine and future films are based entirely on the original cast. The same cast that Feige has an attachment for. I have not seen any fan demand for the prequel characters and for good reason.

When it comes to recasting, Feige revealed that No Way Home came about because Feige wanted Doc Ock but didn't think he could improve upon Alfred Molina. And that's how he decided to just bring Alfred Molina back instead of recasting him. I see something similar happening with Wolverine and Xavier. Feige has said repeated times that if a casting is perfect, he's not going to change it.

The FF have been recast because none of their movies ever really connected with audiences. I say that as someone who loves the first two movies but I know that I'm in the minority and few people have much love for them outside of me. Those two films did decently well but never became a part of pop culture or demonstrated any staying power.

Another option with Xavier and Magneto, is to kill them off eventually, particularly Xavier since he's died several times before. And even Magneto is a character who got complaints for being in every movie and having the story always revolve around him. They can be retired the way Iron Man, Captain America, and Black Widow were (even if the former two now seem primed to come back, which seems partly based on Marvel's failure to sustain the MCU without them). I'm also hearing that ScarJo is on better terms with Disney now and even has a movie produced by them so while I haven't heard anything of her coming back, it seems like there's still the potential that she could return.

All well and good, but at some point we're getting that reboot. Continuing the X-men's cinematic legacy with the ageing OG cast is about as feasible as DC/WB's now aborted plan to make Michael Keaton's Batman the lynchpin of the rebooted DCEU.

Also, retiring Iron Man and Captain America, while great from a narrative perspective, hasn't worked out too well for the MCU from a business/franchise perspective. I can't see them making the same mistake with the likes of Wolverine.

Feige's statement about recasting with regards to Alfred Molina and Willem Dafoe also needs to be taken in context. From a practical perspective, you can do Spider-Man films without needing to reboot Doc Ock and the Green Goblin, since there are tons of villains and story-arcs that have yet to be explored on-screen. But from a practical perspective, its' extremely hard to run an X-men franchise without the likes of Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Professor X, Magneto etc. Nigh-impossible in fact. I mean, there's a reason why the MCU recast Spider-Man with Tom Holland in the first place. Wasn't Tobey Maguire also not 'perfect casting'? Or Andrew Garfield (at one point they were considering folding him into the MCU I believe)?

[whitecrown]

I think there's a sense that they don't know what they're building up to anymore. The previous three phases were all building upto something, and collectively they were all building upto Thanos. Phase 4 seemed more like an Infinity Saga coda than anything else. Like "the glory days are over, here's us experimenting with what's left of the sandbox".

Nothing wrong with that either. But the quality of individual films matter too. Phase 2 also seemed to lack focus compared to Phase 1 and Phase 3. But it had films like Iron Man 3, The Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy. The only truly standout film from Phase 4, IMO, was No Way Home (technically a Sony Spider-Man film), and maybe Wakanda Forever.

The shows have also taken away some of the focus I feel.





All well and good, but at some point we're getting that reboot. Continuing the X-men's cinematic legacy with the ageing OG cast is about as feasible as DC/WB's now aborted plan to make Michael Keaton's Batman the lynchpin of the rebooted DCEU.

Also, retiring Iron Man and Captain America, while great from a narrative perspective, hasn't worked out too well for the MCU from a business/franchise perspective. I can't see them making the same mistake with the likes of Wolverine.

Feige's statement about recasting with regards to Alfred Molina and Willem Dafoe also needs to be taken in context. From a practical perspective, you can do Spider-Man films without needing to reboot Doc Ock and the Green Goblin, since there are tons of villains and story-arcs that have yet to be explored on-screen. But from a practical perspective, its' extremely hard to run an X-men franchise without the likes of Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Professor X, Magneto etc. Nigh-impossible in fact. I mean, there's a reason why the MCU recast Spider-Man with Tom Holland in the first place. Wasn't Tobey Maguire also not 'perfect casting'? Or Andrew Garfield (at one point they were considering folding him into the MCU I believe)?

Phase 4 and 5 were supposed to be about leading up to Secret Wars. But the problem is that Kang was a dud. He failed to resonate and the film designed to introduce him was considered a flop. That's not even accounting for the actor's personal life getting him fired.
Another problem is that there is way too much content with the Disney+ shows. Audiences will do not homework before watching these movies so for characters like Monica and Ms. Marvel to show up, without movies, means you've alienated the majority of your audience.
Finally, one last factor is that Phases 1-3 always ended with the Avengers movies. You had an idea who your main team was and which characters to care about. You even got an Avengers 2.5 with Captain America: Civil War. Phase 4 and 5 have not had any Avengers movies. Nobody knows which characters are important because there's dozens of them now.

The problem with the Keaton Batman is more that The Flash failed and his other main appearance, in Batgirl, got scrapped. The FoX-Men probably won't be in as dire a situation.

Retiring Cap and Iron Man hasn't helped, but they also haven't been recast. And I don't see recasting working. They tried to skirt around that with a soft reboot via Falcon and Riri Williams but I don't think anyone is expecting much from them. Falcon's new Captain America movie is already getting pegged as another Marvels disaster. Same with Thunderbolts which is also full of B-Listers, whether it's branded as the Dark Avengers or not. If these characters were recast instead of rebooted, I'm not sure that's a guarantee audiences would accept them either. Especially after looking at the Solo movie and how that flopped because nobody wanted a Han Solo who wasn't Harrison Ford.

That's true that villains are easier to sideline compared to the main heroes. But Sony and the Spider-Man reboots/recastings are also a special situation. When the Avengers and ASM debuted the same year, originally Avengers was supposed to feature Oscorp tower from ASM in the skyline. There was a deal being worked out but I think the movie's visual effects got finished before that happened, so that's why the final movie doesn't feature Oscorp. Had the ASM movies been accepted, there probably could have been a more direct crossover rather than a recast. The issue was that ASM2 was a critical misfire and underperformed at the box office. Even that wasn't that big of an issue because ASM3 was still supposed to happen but the head of Sony felt insulted by Andrew Garfield for not showing up to an event and fired him. Andrew didn't come back because Sony still held the cards in the deal with Marvel on how to make these movies and they didn't want Andrew back. Sony was pushing for another reboot/recast. So that's a very unique situation and one that could have ended up differently based on different factors and context.

[Rev9]

Fassbender and McAvoy failed to resonate with audiences. There's a reason every prequel film, besides DOFP, was considered a financial disappointment or outright failure. DOFP was actually greenlighted specifically for the purpose of bringing back the OG cast because of the prequel cast's failure to resonate. Originally First Class was a trilogy and DOFP was being set for the final film. When First Class underperformed and audiences showed a dislike for a soft reboot of the franchise, Fox decided to skip straight ahead to DOFP in order to capitalize on bringing back the original cast and it worked for that one film. But they second they reverted back to the prequel cast, the films started doing poorly again.

For general audiences, Xavier and Magneto are synonymous with Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen. McAvoy and Fassbender don't even come into the picture (and frankly, I never felt Fassbender even remotely came across like a young McKellen's Magneto. It's even more notable in DOFP where I can see the link between McAvoy and Stewart but Fassbender feels like a completely different character in comparison to McKellen).

This is also why all the promised cameos and returns for Deadpool & Wolverine and future films are based entirely on the original cast. The same cast that Feige has an attachment for. I have not seen any fan demand for the prequel characters and for good reason.

When it comes to recasting, Feige revealed that No Way Home came about because Feige wanted Doc Ock but didn't think he could improve upon Alfred Molina. And that's how he decided to just bring Alfred Molina back instead of recasting him. I see something similar happening with Wolverine and Xavier. Feige has said repeated times that if a casting is perfect, he's not going to change it.

I don't know if you're following Feige's rationale or your own preferences , but at their age Ian and Patrick are not viable to carry the franchise beyond Secret wars. Whether Marvel stick with Fassbender or McAvoy or re-cast, the truth is re-casting will happen (and sooner than later)

[whitecrown]

I don't know if you're following Feige's rationale or your own preferences , but at their age Ian and Patrick are not viable to carry the franchise beyond Secret wars. Whether Marvel stick with Fassbender or McAvoy or re-cast, the truth is re-casting will happen (and sooner than later)

It's not my preferences. Feige has not recast them so far and both actors have said they want to keep playing these roles as long as possible.

[Gnostic]

I don't know if you're following Feige's rationale or your own preferences , but at their age Ian and Patrick are not viable to carry the franchise beyond Secret wars. Whether Marvel stick with Fassbender or McAvoy or re-cast, the truth is re-casting will happen (and sooner than later)

Or maybe they won't use Professor X or Magneto at all since they've gotten enough spotlight.

[bat39]

Or maybe they won't use Professor X or Magneto at all since they've gotten enough spotlight.

In the long run, there's no way in hell we're getting an X-men film series (be it a reboot, soft reboot, continuation or whatever) without Professor X or Magneto (certainly not Professor X).

I can see them having a smaller role than in the Fox movies for sure, but not being completely written out.

Likewise, there's no way we're getting the X-men without most of the top characters such as Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Rogue etc. Anyone who's dreaming of an X-men team comprising largely of lesser-known B or C-listers can keep dreaming.

[Frontier]

Or maybe they won't use Professor X or Magneto at all since they've gotten enough spotlight.

It probably depends on how they want to structure the X-Men as a group.

[whitecrown]

I mean people here are constantly saying that Wolverine shouldn't be used in the X-Men team and be kept to the sidelines. Despite the fact that he's the face of the franchise, Marvel's second most popular character, and as noted in the Deadpool trailer, is literally "the X-Man."

[ChildOfTheAtom]

I mean people here are constantly saying that Wolverine shouldn't be used in the X-Men team and be kept to the sidelines. Despite the fact that he's the face of the franchise, Marvel's second most popular character, and as noted in the Deadpool trailer, is literally "the X-Man."

i don’t think anyone saying don’t use wolverine.. we just want him to have a smaller role since he’ll most likely have his own trilogy

[Gnostic]

The only Wolverine who appeared in Deadpool 2 is the one from footage from Origins who's the same as the Wolverine in all the other films.

I mean, that could have branched into an alternate timeline.

In the long run, there's no way in hell we're getting an X-men film series (be it a reboot, soft reboot, continuation or whatever) without Professor X or Magneto (certainly not Professor X).

I can see them having a smaller role than in the Fox movies for sure, but not being completely written out.

Likewise, there's no way we're getting the X-men without most of the top characters such as Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Rogue etc. Anyone who's dreaming of an X-men team comprising largely of lesser-known B or C-listers can keep dreaming.

The comics have taken Xavier out of the picture before. Especially in the 2000s and much of the 2010s.

The MCU written out several major Spider-Man characters, so why not X-Men characters?

[whitecrown]

The MCU written out several major Spider-Man characters, so why not X-Men characters?

Also look at how Spider-Man's movies have each required him to rely on a more popular cast character. Iron Man in Homecoming. Nick Fury in Far From Home. Doctor Strange plus Tobey and Andrew in No Way Home. And now the fourth Spider-Man movie is going to bring back Tobey and Andrew yet again. That seems to indicate that even Marvel knows when their recastings have failed to really resonate and how the Tom Holland Spider-Man can't merit any true solo film of his own. He always needs someone to boost him. The very fact that he still needs Tobey and Andrew to make him relevant is yet another sign that recastings do not always work and audiences might still be clamoring for the FoX-Men.

Which, btw, is more or less what happened with First Class. We got a rebooted cast and it didn't work which is why DOFP was created specifically to bring back the original cast. Fox's biggest error then was doubling down on the prequel cast again, because they got cocky from DOFP and thought they could emulate the MCU and expand on a whole line of prequels, when all people wanted was the original cast.

[bat39]

I mean people here are constantly saying that Wolverine shouldn't be used in the X-Men team and be kept to the sidelines. Despite the fact that he's the face of the franchise, Marvel's second most popular character, and as noted in the Deadpool trailer, is literally "the X-Man."

My suggestion (which I doubt they'd implement) is to exclude Wolverine from the first reboot X-men film, and introduce him in a solo outing instead before having him join the team in the sequel. I'm certainly not suggesting that there shouldn't be a rebooted Wolverine (or Xavier) because Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart are irreplaceable.

I mean, that could have branched into an alternate timeline.




The comics have taken Xavier out of the picture before. Especially in the 2000s and much of the 2010s.

The MCU written out several major Spider-Man characters, so why not X-Men characters?

Maybe Origins!Wolverine does branch out into his own timeline. Even so, not sure how radically different he'd be from the Wolverine in the other films.

I'd love it if there were direct references to Origins though, as a tribute to where Ryan Reynold's journey as Wade Wilson truly began. In a way, Deadpool & Wolverine brings things full circle from Origins.

Yes, you can take Xavier out of the picture of course. But when you're establishing a new iteration of the franchise, you need him to be present to begin with at least.

The TAS apparently didn't want to focus much on Xavier to begin with either (and shunted him off to his own season-long subplot with Magneto in Season 2). But they had to introduce him.

Also look at how Spider-Man's movies have each required him to rely on a more popular cast character. Iron Man in Homecoming. Nick Fury in Far From Home. Doctor Strange plus Tobey and Andrew in No Way Home. And now the fourth Spider-Man movie is going to bring back Tobey and Andrew yet again. That seems to indicate that even Marvel knows when their recastings have failed to really resonate and how the Tom Holland Spider-Man can't merit any true solo film of his own. He always needs someone to boost him. The very fact that he still needs Tobey and Andrew to make him relevant is yet another sign that recastings do not always work and audiences might still be clamoring for the FoX-Men.

Which, btw, is more or less what happened with First Class. We got a rebooted cast and it didn't work which is why DOFP was created specifically to bring back the original cast. Fox's biggest error then was doubling down on the prequel cast again, because they got cocky from DOFP and thought they could emulate the MCU and expand on a whole line of prequels, when all people wanted was the original cast.

I don't disagree with you on Tom Holland. But if what you said is 100% Marvel's thinking, then instead of a fourth Tom Holland-led Spider-Man film, we'd probably be getting a fourth Tobey Maguire film or a third Andrew Garfield film.

For the last decade or so, superhero films (and other major IP's) have perfected the art of bringing back iconic characters played by legacy actors for nostalgia purposes. X-men Days of Future Past, the Star Wars sequel trilogy, Terminator Dark Fate, Spider-Man No Way Home, The Flash...now Deadpool & Wolverine. And for the most part its been a winning formula, with some duds. That doesn't mean studios are giving up on recasting and rebooting altogether. They can't. Legacy sequels and legacy casting isn't a sustainable long-term strategy for a brand. Especially a brand like the X-men which needs to be revived on-screen.

[whitecrown]

My suggestion (which I doubt they'd implement) is to exclude Wolverine from the first reboot X-men film, and introduce him in a solo outing instead before having him join the team in the sequel. I'm certainly not suggesting that there shouldn't be a rebooted Wolverine (or Xavier) because Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart are irreplaceable.

The TAS apparently didn't want to focus much on Xavier to begin with either (and shunted him off to his own season-long subplot with Magneto in Season 2). But they had to introduce him.

I don't disagree with you on Tom Holland. But if what you said is 100% Marvel's thinking, then instead of a fourth Tom Holland-led Spider-Man film, we'd probably be getting a fourth Tobey Maguire film or a third Andrew Garfield film.

For the last decade or so, superhero films (and other major IP's) have perfected the art of bringing back iconic characters played by legacy actors for nostalgia purposes. X-men Days of Future Past, the Star Wars sequel trilogy, Terminator Dark Fate, Spider-Man No Way Home, The Flash...now Deadpool & Wolverine. And for the most part its been a winning formula, with some duds. That doesn't mean studios are giving up on recasting and rebooting altogether. They can't. Legacy sequels and legacy casting isn't a sustainable long-term strategy for a brand. Especially a brand like the X-men which needs to be revived on-screen.

Oh I see.

From what I know, the reason for the season long subplot of Xavier and Magneto in the Savage Land is because the network execs said that serialized storytelling wasn't allowed anymore after S1. S1 was very serialized with every episode segueing into the next. Networks don't generally like that because kids can't jump into a show in the middle if the episodes aren't standalone so the show's writers skirted this rule by leaving only the last few minutes of every episode for Xavier and Magneto.

From what I know, Sony has the right to pull out of the Marvel contract at any time. In fact, between the MCU's decline and the fact that Marvel has reneged on Sony's desire to have a new Spider-Man movie every 2 years, Sony is even considering this. Sony still generally holds the cards when it comes to Spider-Man and the main thing Disney offers is the ability for Sony to use MCU characters from the shared universe, like Doctor Strange and Iron Man. With Sony's desire to establish a live-action Spider-Verse, it seems like they might not feel the need to remain tied to a declining MCU especially with most heavy hitters gone. So the lack of a fourth Tobey movie or third Andrew movie isn't Disney/Marvel but Sony because Marvel has nothing to do with it. In fact, Disney wanted to put Tobey in Deadpool & Wolverine as a cameo, but Sony said no. I don't think Sony likes their spidey toys being used by the other company especially for something so unsubstantial as a cameo.

Similarly, when the MCU deal began, Sony was the one that demanded that Spider-Man be recast because of Andrew Garfield's feud with the Sony head. The MCU was primed to crossover with Andrew's Amazing Spider-Man even when the Avengers came out.

The thing is that for many of those examples you listed about legacy actors being brought back, the plan wasn't just a one and done. Terminator: Dark Fate flopped big time but the original cast members were supposed to do more movies if it had been a hit. The lack of more movies with Linda Hamilton and Schwarzenegger is only because even their comeback film didn't work. The Flash was supposed to lead to Michael Keaton returning full-time and dominating the DCEU but this was another big flop. I think only the Star Wars ST had the idea of bringing back the original cast for the purpose of them passing the baton to the next generation and that became even more of a necessity once Carrie Fisher died and because Harrison Ford only agreed to return if Han Solo could finally be killed off.

[Jackraow21]

New teaser TV spot. Banger of a song in this one too…

https://twitter.com/DeadpoolUpdate/s...vealed-a210845

LFG.

[Zero Hunter]

I mean people here are constantly saying that Wolverine shouldn't be used in the X-Men team and be kept to the sidelines. Despite the fact that he's the face of the franchise, Marvel's second most popular character, and as noted in the Deadpool trailer, is literally "the X-Man."

I don't think they should keep him out completely, but I do think it would be better for the franchise as a whole to not use him in the first movie except maybe as a post credit scene. Marvel needs to not make the same mistake Fox did and just have the focus on certain characters. If you save Wolverine and Magneto for the sequels you let the other actual X-Men get a chance to shine. They need to focus on the actual X-Men to really get the audience hooked (and that means not damned Mystique. She is not a hero she is villain!!).