Do you think Disney era Star Wars has met your expectation?

[Slowpokeking]

I was hoping Disney could make new movies and saga when Lucas sold SW to them.

Right now I will say I'm not pleased. Mostly due to ST trilogy is a mess. RO and Solo were both fine.

The old EU got a lot of weird stuff and need some rebuild, but the new EU weren't better so far.

[godisawesome]

I think my initial expectations were met, because I knew there were some risky things to Disney taking over, and there's still a lot of properties in this era I love...

But my expectations grew and peaked probably right around the time of RO; I liked that movie a lot,, had loved TFA (Finn was my new favorite Star Wars character) had just got done reading Lost Stars (still a great book and should be adapted into a D+ show in my opinion) and I had heard enough stuff from LFL and BTS talk that I thought they were doing the smart thing and analyzing Legends continuity for what worked and what didn't, like how he MCU was doing things.

...Then TLJ came out and deflated almost all of my interest in not just the rest of the ST (since I felt I could see the writing on the wall for how LFL's priorities were going to screw over all the heroes for a doomed Kylo), but also for the OT3 characters after ROTJ (since "Han and Leia had a little shit for a kid, then Luke was horribly written into being a complete failure and died, the end" kills a lot of interest as an endpoint.) I also figured out they had no one at the time doing any kind of "What worked in Legends" thing given the direction they let Johnson take the ST; if there was one objective fact of the Legends canon, it was that a continuing Skywalker Family story would produce stories for ever and that a New Jedi Order was a hit idea... and TLJ killed both ideas stone dead.

The Mandalorian and Andor stabilized things a bit... but I still feel like they hit two home runs in movie theaters the first two years, then somehow nosedived back down to earth afterwards.

[Frontier]

At times yes, at times no.

[LordMikel]

In the grand scheme of things, I think Disney dropped the ball. They still won the game, but it wasn't the blowout everyone was hoping it would be.

And one day I might have to go back and try to watch more of Andor. I'm only on episode 2 and it is so boring. Murderer stalks girl and the goody good Empire cop says, "Hey, these guys who died might not have been the best cops, but they were still cops, we should find out who killed them."

[ChrisIII]

Some of the optimism, as others have noted, deflated a bit with TLJ and Solo but the TV stuff has mostly been solid with a few missteps (Resistance, half of Book of Boba Fett) sort of balancing out ROS being a disappointment and the film stuff taking a break.


Kind of wonder how things would've gone had George still been in charge or at least the sale to Disney had not happened. Reportedly despite his constant denials he was working on a sequel trilogy anyway, the books would've probably done the whole Sword of the Jedi thing, maybe eventually the TV series would've been made (Seems like it would've been a partly anthology like series, and the prototype story to Rogue One would've been one of the arcs) and of course....detours.

[LordMikel]

Some of the optimism, as others have noted, deflated a bit with TLJ and Solo but the TV stuff has mostly been solid with a few missteps (Resistance, half of Book of Boba Fett) sort of balancing out ROS being a disappointment and the film stuff taking a break.


Kind of wonder how things would've gone had George still been in charge or at least the sale to Disney had not happened. Reportedly despite his constant denials he was working on a sequel trilogy anyway, the books would've probably done the whole Sword of the Jedi thing, maybe eventually the TV series would've been made (Seems like it would've been a partly anthology like series, and the prototype story to Rogue One would've been one of the arcs) and of course....detours.

That statement. He said he wasn't and then suddenly he says he was but Disney didn't want to listen to him.

I personally don't think Lucas could have done it better. It is kind of like Game of Thrones and the next book. George R.R. Martin doesn't need to do the next book. We would all just like him to. I think Lucas was the same way.

[Powerboy]

I was hoping Disney could make new movies and saga when Lucas sold SW to them.

Right now I will say I'm not pleased. Mostly due to ST trilogy is a mess. RO and Solo were both fine.

The old EU got a lot of weird stuff and need some rebuild, but the new EU weren't better so far.

I'm not an EU person. I really liked Rogue One and thought Solo was a decent movie. I LOVE the Mandalorian. It's the numbered movies, 7, 8 and 9 that are the problem.

Skipping past the technicalities, they seem like mostly a remake and rehash of what's already been done. The Empire will now be called the Obsidian Order, or whatever.Darth Vader will now be called Kylo Rin, Palpatine will now be Snoke until Palpatine shows up again, etc.

It also makes the original trilogy seem meaningless since nothing they did lasted.

I feel like it would have been totally cool to remake the original and have a woman this time instead of Luke. At least then, there would be justification for why it seems to be basically the same story only different.

[godisawesome]

I'm not an EU person. I really liked Rogue One and thought Solo was a decent movie. I LOVE the Mandalorian. It's the numbered movies, 7, 8 and 9 that are the problem.

Skipping past the technicalities, they seem like mostly a remake and rehash of what's already been done. The Empire will now be called the Obsidian Order, or whatever.Darth Vader will now be called Kylo Rin, Palpatine will now be Snoke until Palpatine shows up again, etc.

It also makes the original trilogy seem meaningless since nothing they did lasted.

I feel like it would have been totally cool to remake the original and have a woman this time instead of Luke. At least then, there would be justification for why it seems to be basically the same story only different.

Interestingly, I think that everyone involved (with the possible exception of Rian Johnson) wanted to remake the original with a woman this time instead of Luke... but that meant different things to different creators, in a painful, painful way.

Abrams was, I believe, thinking something akin to: "Rey is Luke's counterpart, Finn is Han's counterpart, Kylo is Vader's counterpart, The First Order and Resistance are Empire and Rebellion's counterparts, but we quietly sort of 'Reverse Uno' things a bit for the characters and factions, and the main attraction is the characters and their chemistry."

LFL and Rian Johnson, on the other hand, were thinking something like : "Rey is technically our main character, but Kylo is our straightforward combination of Han from the OT and Anakin Done Right From The PT, and the more fanatically we copy the OT military situation, the more guaranteed we are that things will go great."

I don't think LFL ever really thought of doing anything cool with Rey, or ever even really respected her as an "heir" to Luke and Anakin (possibly because they hated the idea of her being Luke's daughter - the natural progression for the franchise), were overinvested and obsessed with Kylo (and Adam Driver as their preferred lead actor), were outright hostile towards Finn for being in "Kylo's spot" (and maybe dismissive of Boyega as Abrams's intrusive male lead as well), and were, shockingly, even more "copy and paste" crazy than Abrams (which is saying something, since Abrams prefers copying and pasting as a matter of course!)

And of course, I think that the interest audience's expressed in "Rey is probably Luke's daughter, Finn is probably her love interest, and Kylo's a fun villain to hate!" likely annoyed LFL and Rian Johnson a lot... but was also inherently better than "Kylo is EVERYTHING and TOTALLY worth sacrificing his family for, Luke is better when he's sad and pathetic, and the entire family is going to die!... oh, and Rey's there too, but luckily we made her Kylo's love interest, and got Finn away from her!" that they sort of allowed TLJ to make the ST into.

[ChrisIII]

The prequels kind of used a few characters similar to the originals as well. Anakin, like Luke, comes from Tatooine and dreams of leaving the planet (It wasn't really something established in the OT, apart from maybe the Lars connection which Obi-Wan could've been lying about; indeed some early sources list Owen as Obi-Wan's brother). All we really knew in the OT was that he was the Jedi and good pilot trained by Obi-Wan who went to the dark side and became Vader.

Padme, like Leia, is royalty of a peaceful planet but good with a blaster/leader of her men (again, for all we knew before the prequels she could've even been another Jedi), Qui-Gon sort of has the Obi-Wan role of the mentor figure who dies...(and seemed to be written in specifically for that role as he's not mentioned at all in the OT, and the dialogue only states that Yoda was Obi-Wan's master, which the prequels kind of retconned as being more of a class instructor than a full mentor as assumed)



Granted, Maul and Gunray are quite different from Vader and Tarkin, although General Grievous and Dooku have more of that going forward. Jar-Jar doesn't really fit Han or Chewie's place in the story, although he was sort of based on dropped ideas for both.

[godisawesome]

LFL not knowing *what to do* currently with the ST characters probably contributes some to a situation caused by the kid’s age; LFL knows what to do with Vader, Mando, and even other characters like Maul. A little kid would have more reason to know who those characters are from both how much ire rewatchable those films are (and thus more likely to be “shared” with a new generation) but also because LFL likes producing *new content with them.*

But I think LFL is still annoyed and unsatisfied themselves with how Kylo at his most popular comes from the TFA “packaging,” like all the rest of the ST characters, and still refuses to analyze what would work with the characters of the ST because it doesn’t fit their original vision. They wanted Ben Solo to be the break-out star of the ST, regarded Rey wholly through what she could do to enable that, treated Finn as a liability that threatened that, tried to exploit the OT3 mostly for him, and allowed even other, uninvolved characters (like Poe and Hux) to get screwed up as long as they thought Ben was being done well… and they still wound up dooming Ben to both being a bland and boring non-entity and dead.

Younger kids will eventually learn who the ST characters are - but their popularity will likely depend more on what future material features them, which is going to require LFL to understand and figure out what made them work. That Rey movie will be informative: it could be anything from a resuscitation of most of the characters and show LFL figured out their mistakes, to a death knell caused by bitterly embedded support for TLJ among LFL, or it could even show how little they care at all if it doesn’t get made.

[thwhtGuardian]

LFL not knowing *what to do* currently with the ST characters probably contributes some to a situation caused by the kid’s age; LFL knows what to do with Vader, Mando, and even other characters like Maul. A little kid would have more reason to know who those characters are from both how much ire rewatchable those films are (and thus more likely to be “shared” with a new generation) but also because LFL likes producing *new content with them.*

But I think LFL is still annoyed and unsatisfied themselves with how Kylo at his most popular comes from the TFA “packaging,” like all the rest of the ST characters, and still refuses to analyze what would work with the characters of the ST because it doesn’t fit their original vision. They wanted Ben Solo to be the break-out star of the ST, regarded Rey wholly through what she could do to enable that, treated Finn as a liability that threatened that, tried to exploit the OT3 mostly for him, and allowed even other, uninvolved characters (like Poe and Hux) to get screwed up as long as they thought Ben was being done well… and they still wound up dooming Ben to both being a bland and boring non-entity and dead.

Younger kids will eventually learn who the ST characters are - but their popularity will likely depend more on what future material features them, which is going to require LFL to understand and figure out what made them work. That Rey movie will be informative: it could be anything from a resuscitation of most of the characters and show LFL figured out their mistakes, to a death knell caused by bitterly embedded support for TLJ among LFL, or it could even show how little they care at all if it doesn’t get made.

Nah, none of that really matters to this anecdote at all. It would have likely plaid out the exact same way if it was Luke's light saber or Han's blaster. The last film came out when the nephew was six and the first when he was only two so he likely never saw any of the films in the theaters and apparently received the toy when he was much younger. So the whole thing is a product of the kids age and nothing to do with the quality of the films or the management of Disney.

I dislike the sequels, but to pretend this anecdote is in any kind of way, shape or form anything even remotely close to being considered a valid criticism of them is just plain silly.

[godisawesome]

Nah, none of that really matters to this anecdote at all. It would have likely plaid out the exact same way if it was Luke's light saber or Han's blaster. The last film came out when the nephew was six and the first when he was only two so he likely never saw any of the films in the theaters and apparently received the toy when he was much younger. So the whole thing is a product of the kids age and nothing to do with the quality of the films or the management of Disney.

I dislike the sequels, but to pretend this anecdote is in any kind of way, shape or form anything even remotely close to being considered a valid criticism of them is just plain silly.

I actually mostly agree*, I just like razzing the ST and pointing out how much they struggle to make assets from a $2 Billion film work anymore.

*(The counter I would have is that *I* knew stuff like this at 10, and already had opinions about geek culture… but if you’re someone like me who posts on comic book message boards, you are not capable of analyzing how “normal” kids would react.)

[godisawesome]

Darth Vader had a number of things going for him. Mystery, an awesome appearance, James Earl Jones' voice, and a number of EU appearances alongside characters like Luke, Han, and Leia that young fans wanted to see more of. Darth Maul's mystique kept him going well past TPM, aided by Lucas letting the character get out there. Kylo Ren got a better shake than Finn but he's an anemic character all the same, esp. when measured against the Darths or the "Legends" Solo children before him.

I think Kylo As A villain was also a victim of LFL's obsession with Ben Solo As Our Lead, while it simply easier to see how that obsession screwed up Rey and Finn first.

The character was introduced with a great costume, great music, Driver's portrayal of unstable psychosis being embraced by the film, and an air of mystery as well, albeit of a more twisted and disturbing kind... and I think those were actually Lucasfilm's issues with his TFA form.

TFA Kylo is set up to be a disturbing Hero Killer with a sadistic streak, a volatile temper, all portrayed with a dark sense of humor, and where his "pretty boy" features are only shown when he's at his most viscerally disturbing and dangerous, but with potential to be a pitiable tragic villain with a massive question mark about why he's so unrelatable, mad and crazy... but Lucasfilm doesn't want him unrelatable, mad and crazy, they want him as the focal POV of the story we agree with; they don't want him a deconstruction of the pretty boy archetype, they want his looks played up as an appeal tot he audience; they don't want him as a pitiable tragic villain, but instead as a sympathetic anti-hero...

...which leads to how they seem to almost HATE the idea of him having a mysterious past, or being taken seriously as a Hero Killer type of villain, so they instead allowed his past to be boring and seem to blame his bodycount on his victims rather than him. Admitting his past asks questions like "Why is he so fucked up?" means having to admit that he *is* fucked up in the first place, and LFL wants us to relate to him as a brooding, angsty teenager instead, so they just ignore that he's fucked up. Tackling how him killing and maiming so many people, including established heroes (Han directly, Ackbar directly, Finn and Rey directly, Luke indirectly), makes him a scary villain also means encouraging the audience to fear and hate him, and they want him to be the hero of the story as much as possible, so instead there's a substextual and at times even textual insistence "Han and Luke made him this way; Rey should feel bad for hurting him; Finn and everyone else don't matter compared to his feelings."

... So they wound up just neutering their villian while more overtly destroying their heroes, all so that Ben Solo could the treatment they felt he was "entitled" to.

I still say that the ST can be salvaged, particularly the heroes, but Kylo feels like he's been permanently handicapped as both a hero and a villain, ironically because LFL wnated the former so bad they savaged how well he worked as the latter.

[ChrisIII]

I don't think the non-Clone Wars prequel trilogy villains outside of Maul were exactly kids favorites either.

[DrNewGod]

I have very much enjoyed The Mandolorian, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Ahsoka (even tho, in the latter's case, I'd not watched the animated version). I also thought Rogue One quite good.

It interests me that (IMO) Disney did better by taking the focus away from the central SW story and characters (except for Obi-Wan), and putting it on the edges of their continuity. I can't help seeing parallels between SW and Marvel's development of the MCU that made a bank out of (what were then) the backbench characters. I have to wonder if the creatives just had freedom to do stuff nobody would have allowed with the big names and stories.