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  1. #61
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    I can't subscribe to such uses of Miller's Batman to evaluate Miller's own character. Critics have been mistaking the positions Miller examines in his comics for his own convictions for decades. Indeed, Miller would agree with every one of Kevin's criticisms of Batman and even offer an aesthetic justification for this portrayal that depends on a dramatic irony that is difficult to locate, precisely because superhero comics have always traded in absolutes; criticism of those absolutes would understandably be less obvious to a dedicated reader of superhero comics, not to mention a nonreader convinced of superheroes' intrinsic lack of sophistication, than to someone interested in exploring or exploding the limits of the Batman mythos. Now, however, it not only looks like Miller has given away his critical distance; he also wants everyone to know it and to decide for themselves whether what he's done is worthless as a result, as comics or as political activism.

    Back in 1998, discussing 300 with Christopher Brayshaw in the Comics Journal, Miller acknowledges the historical irony of Greece, the epitome of civil organization and intellectualism in the ancient West, needing a nation-state of cold-blooded warriors to fight its battles. In another context, he tells Brayshaw, he might have invited readers to ponder that irony and consider its paradoxical relationship to the development of democratic ideals.19 He does not do so in this context, however. For Miller, 300 is all about the necessity of saving civilization—Western civilization—from barbarism. The three hundred Spartans did what was necessary; they lost the battle, badly, but without their sacrifice, discipline, and utterly unambiguous worldview, we would apparently still be living in mud huts today.

    Even with 300, though, Miller argues that he's playing around just a tiny bit with our tendency to collapse heroes with role models. Miller makes Leonidas admirable but not likable and renders most of the other 299 Spartans as less admirable and even less likable. But maybe, Miller has said not only about the Spartans but about the Punisher, Batman, and Superman, cultures need guys like that, and I do mean guys—the reckless male narcissists who can't or won't make subtle distinctions between good and evil—to do the dirty work of "preserving civilization as we know it." Usually, as in The Dark Knight Returns and The Dark Knight Strikes Again! and to a certain extent the noir riff on Dante's Inferno that is Sin City, Miller lets us sit with that ugly possibility, lets us squirm at our own enjoyment and/or disgust. He forces us to wonder if peace and forward movement are ever possible without the bright lines between good and evil and at the same time makes us ponder whether by drawing those lines, we put our humanity at risk. The generous way to interpret what Miller says here is that, like Hitchcock, he's casting doubt on the very notion of heroism that rules superhero comics, that is, the fantasy that superheroes could do what they do and yet remain "ordinary" people. Miller turned Batman into a living symbol of the fear that criminals should feel when threatened by "good," at least in a Platonist universe, but don't. However, when it's no longer comics, the First Amendment, or aesthetic complexity at stake but national security, take-no-prisoners tactics—in art as well as war—look to Miller like the only way to go.
    [...]

    In what I want to believe is a triumph of Miller the listener over the absolutist Miller who sneers at the same First Amendment he once sacrificed his industry goodwill to defend, Miller now refuses to comment further on his anti-Occupy rant. Perhaps he thinks it all speaks for itself, or perhaps he has accepted certain tenets of his critics just as he graciously (and legitimately, it seems) accepted the differing opinions of Groth and other interviewers as recently as a decade ago. Either way, he has stopped talking much about politics of any stripe. His blog is now abandoned due to "computer problems," Miller says, glowering during an interview for a Wired profile when Sean Howe suggests he find "a better technician" to fix it. "I will," Miller says, after a long silence.22

    Look back on Daredevil's nemeses from the '79–'82 run with Miller's current anti-Islamicism in mind, though, and watch the ambiguities and nuances of his first major achievement get harder to pinpoint. Bullseye is a psychopath, complete with brain damage caused by cancer to guarantee it. Elektra is irredeemable despite her ostensibly clean bill of mental health: "The feeling I've been trying to get across is that she's betrayed something. She was meant to be something better than she is."23 But once you've fallen from grace, that's it. Some people are evil, through and through—think of the "reformed" Harvey Dent/Two-Face in The Dark Knight Returns, whose ruined mind no amount of reconstructive surgery can repair—and they must be punished, locked away for good, dismissed, disposed of. There's no other way to get the cancer out of society. Miller dates the rising scale of violent crime in Daredevil back to his getting mugged and robbed in New York: "The experience filled me with anger, and that translated right into my comics."24 As he got angrier, however, the struggle over right and wrong that plagued Daredevil seemed to get a lot less interesting to him than staking an unwavering claim to right.

    Howe shrewdly characterizes Miller's use of secondary characters as a kind of misdirection: "Daredevil's dastardly supporting cast allowed Miller to have it both ways by making Daredevil's barrage of kicks and punches look reasonable in comparison."25 The bleak view on Miller's career would paint it as a slow but momentous roll past such apologies for superheroic vigilantism and into the stark light of the Fixer's gleeful, openly sadistic rampages, a development that Howe connects to Miller's personal victimization by crime prior to plotting Batman: The Dark Knight Returns:

    "As Miller's career was taking off, the everyday violence in Manhattan at the time was taking its toll. "New York is no longer fit for human habitation," Miller told one friend. After enduring three robberies in the course of a month, he and [the colorist and his then-girlfriend Lynn] Varley decided to escape to LA. While she went out west to search for a home, he stayed behind to set up more work to get them out of debt. He had a check in his pocket when, once again, someone tried to rob him. "Frank just went berserk on the guy," Varley says. "He didn't hit him or anything, he just went so berserk the guy backed off and ran away. We were on edge."26

    Such anger floats to the surface of his work with a bang in 1986, the year I graduated from high school, with not one but two smash-hit stories about characters that didn't belong to him: Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and Miller's most lauded Daredevil story, Daredevil: Born Again, his 1986 return to the Daredevil series, penciled by David Mazzucchelli.
    [...]

    It's a hell of a second coming for a character whose series stubbornly still bore a Comics Code seal. I won't fault Miller for the anger of that story today any more than I did when I read Born Again at seventeen; on the contrary, I still believe there's not much point in going through adolescence in the United States without some rebel-themed mass culture to embrace for the sole reason that your parents would hate it. Still, I marvel at how much Miller's perspective on his audience had changed between 1983's "Roulette" and the Born Again story line in 1985–86.

    According to Howe's account of Marvel in the eighties, Miller's inspiration for Born Again was losing everything himself. Ramped up on the success of Ronin and eager to get away from the city that fostered at least one person's transformation into a real-life vigilante ("one Bernard Goetz is enough"), Miller moved to Los Angeles, found himself dead broke, and decided to pitch a new Daredevil story that started with Matt Murdock in similar straits.28 No doubt it was satisfying to create a world in which a bloated mob boss—somebody, anybody—could actually be held accountable for downturns of fortune, instead of such mundane external forces as random robberies or astronomically high rent. But Born Again also recommends interpretations of Miller's work as reflective of his worldview, making it more difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt when he says he is investigating the justification of defensive violence rather than sponsoring it.
    FIN

    Hope you all found this as fascinating and enlightening as I did.

  2. #62
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    I am not fully blind (nor do I have super senses, sadly) but I am legally blind so books aren't really my thing. I take audiobooks whenever possible. So as I start my DD journey, I was happy to find this.

    But as I am coming from stuff like X-Men, Matt's life and escapades are kinda..."small time." Almost makes you wonder, with beings like Charles Xavier and Magneto out there, what is one human man? I just watched a few mutants terraform Mars in a comic, for Christ's sake.

    But this little segment was, while not very necessary for the plot, a really awesome moment to address exactly those kinds of ideas., While "the supers" are off fighting aliens or whatever, it's good to have one guy out there stopping arsonists who are ruining plenty of lives. Because one life saved is as important as a million. Sorry, Spock.

  3. #63
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK1988 View Post
    I figured I'd share this here, too.
    Frank Miller's Daredevil and the Ends of Heroism


    This was the first honest-to-god analysis of a work of fiction I ever bought. Sure we all think about the stories we read but I had never sought out a professional look at it before. The interviews with Miller and others are really an invaluable look into his creative process, IMO.

    I really recommend this book for insights not just into Daredevil, but Batman and Punisher, too.
    Excellent book. One of my favorites. You probably posted too much of it, tbf, though.
    Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

    I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
    Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

    Interested in reading Daredevil? Not sure what to read next? Why not check out the Daredevil Book Club for some ideas?

  4. #64
    Mighty Member InfamousBG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    Excellent book.
    I loved the book. I recommend it to everyone.
    "Life is too short so love the one you got cause you might get run over or you might get shot" - Sublime

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member Nanashi's Avatar
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    So as of the last issue, some people remember Matt but others don’t? Surely there an explanation coming….?
    'In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act'
    - George Orwell

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”
    - Voltair

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanashi View Post
    So as of the last issue, some people remember Matt but others don’t? Surely there an explanation coming….?
    If I had to guess, only the people who were a part of The Fist remember Matt because so far the only one's who really have were Elektra, Foggy, and North, right? Am I missing anybody?
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Nanashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    If I had to guess, only the people who were a part of The Fist remember Matt because so far the only one's who really have were Elektra, Foggy, and North, right? Am I missing anybody?
    That would make sense if Doctor Strange did not only also remember but that Matt is DD as well for which I can’t recall when that happened.
    'In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act'
    - George Orwell

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”
    - Voltair

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanashi View Post
    That would make sense if Doctor Strange did not only also remember but that Matt is DD as well for which I can’t recall when that happened.
    Well, I can see Doc Strange remembering because, well, Sorcerer Supreme and all. But like I said, it was just a guess on my part. *shrugs*
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member Nanashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Well, I can see Doc Strange remembering because, well, Sorcerer Supreme and all. But like I said, it was just a guess on my part. *shrugs*
    Excluding Doctor Strange it’s a good guess, I think.
    'In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act'
    - George Orwell

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”
    - Voltair

  10. #70
    Mighty Member InfamousBG's Avatar
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    Finally a release date for Daredevil: Born Again. March 2025.

    https://www.cbr.com/daredevil-born-a...window-update/
    Last edited by InfamousBG; 05-15-2024 at 03:36 AM.
    "Life is too short so love the one you got cause you might get run over or you might get shot" - Sublime

  11. #71
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    DD cameoed in X-Men 97's season finale.
    Appreciation Thread Indexes
    Marvel | Spider-Man | X-Men | NEW!! DC Comics | Batman | Superman | Wonder Woman

  12. #72
    Returning member JT221's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    DD cameoed in X-Men 97's season finale.
    And it was glorious.
    Keep your hands to yourself, leave other people's things alone, and be kind to one another.

  13. #73
    Returning member JT221's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfamousBG View Post
    Finally a release date for Daredevil: Born Again. March 2025.

    https://www.cbr.com/daredevil-born-a...window-update/
    So, not a fan of the redesigned logo. I was quite happy with the classic look.
    Keep your hands to yourself, leave other people's things alone, and be kind to one another.

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Talks about daredevil a little in the interview.


  15. #75
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT221 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    DD cameoed in X-Men 97's season finale.
    And it was glorious.
    To the utmost, I agree!

    "Good-bye. Good luck. Good riddance."

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