Polaris: Queen of Mutants/Mistress of Magnetism Appreciation 2024

[GoingGreen]

The word villain is hot button and I knew some poster coming onto the thread and dropping it wouldn’t help anything even doing it in quotes.

The X-Men since the 80s had their villains being Sinister, Poccy, Sabersh*t and on and on. Characters who are motivated for bad ends. Then they had a large group of characters who have been antagonists to the X-Men in their tactics, but not in their goals who have been the same as the X-Men.

There's a huuuuge difference between "Villains" and "Antagonists". I think the best stories told are those that feature Antagonists who are not Villains...

Phoenix and White Queen have often been portrayed as Antagonists to each other. Wolverine and Cyclops. Cable and Bishop. Avengers v X-Men. etc etc etc

In that way, Polaris gaining a well-written antagonist relationship with a fellow hero / X-colleague, it could be great for the character, especially as she then develops her "side" so to speak... colleagues (X-Men) who have her back.

Honestly shocked Lorna wasn't on X-Factor this go around. I believe the roster isn't complete yet, but I'm not sure if Lorna will land in this title or not. Looking at, it doesn't seem like a strong title unfortunately.

I hope Polaris actually has a home, and doesn't get stuck in character limbo for a while. I think there is more stuff to be announced, but I'm still worried Lorna won't show up anywhere.

Yeah, I still have faith she'll end up somewhere. I just hope the rumor of a final X-book is true, and she's on the premiere issue cover. Because #1 cover spots boost IPs like crazy.

[salarta]

Unfortunately I think you are correct. Her bad ass moment in FoX was the beginning of her villain/mutant terrorist arc. They're going to shift her into what Magneto was to the X-Men back in the day since he will now be in the Prof X roll. As I've said before I'd rather Lorna be a hero like she was created to be in the original X-Men title. I think there is way too much flip flopping of characters rolls in these books. It comes of to me like they can't think of anything else to do with some of these characters. I say if you can't use Polaris, Mystique, Destiny or Sinister like they were originally intended then maybe use another character instead. In Lorna's case I feel they are only doing this arc with her because they've been told they can't do it with Magneto. And they've convinced themselves that it's going to be a great story to once again have Lorna do a heal turn.

Lorna spending some time as a "villain," which I put in quotes because it's all down to perspective, actually would be in with what she was created to be.

She was created to be a character that struggles between Xavier and Magneto philosophies. To date, most of her history has been purely Xavier, with the Magneto side of things only occurring when she's possessed or mind controlled. She needs some time on the darker side now to balance out from decades of exclusively light side. That doesn't mean "lol I'm gonna kill civilians cause it sounds fun." It means having a perspective, and subsequent actions, that Xavierite types would be at odds with. Willingness to kill a villain that's trying to kill mutants being one example.

Some fans absolutely hate when their favorite characters can’t get along, but that was long the core driver of drama on the books other then shipper soap.

Echoing what's said here. Fiction needs drama, and drama comes from some kind of conflict, especially with these books. No person lives their life with no struggles.

[M@Bowers2014]

Lorna spending some time as a "villain," which I put in quotes because it's all down to perspective, actually would be in with what she was created to be.

She was created to be a character that struggles between Xavier and Magneto philosophies. To date, most of her history has been purely Xavier, with the Magneto side of things only occurring when she's possessed or mind controlled. She needs some time on the darker side now to balance out from decades of exclusively light side. That doesn't mean "lol I'm gonna kill civilians cause it sounds fun." It means having a perspective, and subsequent actions, that Xavierite types would be at odds with. Willingness to kill a villain that's trying to kill mutants being one example.

.

I agree that she was created to have conflict with the ideas of Xavier/Magento but as you said she's mostly been on Xavier's side. Unless mind controlled or possessed. That says to me that she, at her heart, is a hero not a villain or anti-hero. I think we're actually on the same page there. I just don't want her going full blown villain that kills humans just because they're human. I have no problem with her actions in FoX so far. I'm also down with her doing her own thing in the new era even if it's not in line with the other mutant heroes. It would actually be cool if she started her own X-Men team that has a different heroic agenda than the other 2 teams. Maybe called Astonishing X-Men? It could be:

Polaris
Banshee
Sunfire
Thunderbird
Dazzler
Bishop
Boom Boom
Shatterstar
Rictor

[UncannySurge]

Lorna spending some time as a "villain," which I put in quotes because it's all down to perspective, actually would be in with what she was created to be.

She was created to be a character that struggles between Xavier and Magneto philosophies. To date, most of her history has been purely Xavier, with the Magneto side of things only occurring when she's possessed or mind controlled. She needs some time on the darker side now to balance out from decades of exclusively light side. That doesn't mean "lol I'm gonna kill civilians cause it sounds fun." It means having a perspective, and subsequent actions, that Xavierite types would be at odds with. Willingness to kill a villain that's trying to kill mutants being one

My sentiments exactly. That's why I put the word "villian" in quotes too because I view her as a freedom fighter in that scenario.

Especially if the X-Men are going to be cops. 20240508_105334.jpg

[jmc247]

I agree that she was created to have conflict with the ideas of Xavier/Magento but as you said she's mostly been on Xavier's side. Unless mind controlled or possessed. That says to me that she, at her heart, is a hero not a villain or anti-hero. I think we're actually on the same page there.

I won’t put words in Salarta’s mouth, but I believe the poster was saying what she was originally intended to be. Magneto’s daughter divided between his way and the X-Men was undone and she was a very different background concept for the next several decades.



Because her parentage was undone she was functionally treated as a different character then she was in the storyline above until her Genosha storyline started a move back to 60s concepts.

She has been politically radical compared to the other X-Men the Genosha era, but that hasn’t been always apparent or mattered like in space or as a detective.

[M@Bowers2014]

I won’t put words in Salarta’s mouth, but I believe the poster was saying what she was originally intended to be. Magneto’s daughter divided between his way and the X-Men was undone.



Because her parentage was undone she was functionally treated as a different character then she was in the storyline above until her Genosha storyline started a move back to 60s concepts.

She has been politically radical compared to the other X-Men the Genosha era, but that hasn’t been always apparent or mattered like in space.

I don't think Polaris was ever intended to actually be a villain considering how quickly she joined the side of Xavier. It's very similar to the Vision. In story he was created to be a villain but the creative team always intended him to be a hero.

[salarta]

I agree that she was created to have conflict with the ideas of Xavier/Magento but as you said she's mostly been on Xavier's side. Unless mind controlled or possessed. That says to me that she, at her heart, is a hero not a villain or anti-hero. I think we're actually on the same page there. I just don't want her going full blown villain that kills humans just because they're human. I have no problem with her actions in FoX so far. I'm also down with her doing her own thing in the new era even if it's not in line with the other mutant heroes. It would actually be cool if she started her own X-Men team that has a different heroic agenda than the other 2 teams. Maybe called Astonishing X-Men? It could be:

Polaris
Banshee
Sunfire
Thunderbird
Dazzler
Bishop
Boom Boom
Shatterstar
Rictor

I hope we're on the same page. If not, that's fine.

However, I see a big problem with the "she's been presented as purely Xavierite most of the time so that's what she is" thinking. Most of the time she's been presented as that is also the same time frame where she was presented as just Havok's girlfriend, and usually a damsel he needs to "save" at that. That perception of her as Xavierite with little or no darkness to her is bound up in how she could be used to benefit other characters, not what would fit best for Lorna as her own character with her own thoughts, feelings, experiences, etc.

To put it another way, "Lorna should be full Xavierite because that's how she was used for most of her depictions" is not much different from "Lorna should only be Havok's girlfriend" or "Lorna should only be a supporting character" or "Lorna's not leader quality cause she's hardly ever led a team." There's a line between using depictions to inform writing, and using depictions to restrict potential. Jordan White did the latter, insisting she didn't have "star power" or "fan interest" to deserve big things.

I'm saying all of this as someone who's very against how DC changed Harley Quinn's look to be clown girl instead of harlequin-inspired like her codename and origins say it should be. DC's tried to explain those changes as evolving the character, but that they only came up with those explanations after the fact says they really just wanted to change her look.

So when I say these things regarding Lorna, it's not just change for change sake, or just for a whim. It's coming from me considering how she was originally created and the circumstances behind how she's been depicted. The ideal situation for her as I see it, based on how she was created, is someone who oscillates between both philosophies.

If these philosophies are a pendulum, and she's sent over to one side, then she needs to swing back to its opposite for some time. As herself, not under mind control or possession.

[M@Bowers2014]

I hope we're on the same page. If not, that's fine.

However, I see a big problem with the "she's been presented as purely Xavierite most of the time so that's what she is" thinking. Most of the time she's been presented as that is also the same time frame where she was presented as just Havok's girlfriend, and usually a damsel he needs to "save" at that. That perception of her as Xavierite with little or no darkness to her is bound up in how she could be used to benefit other characters, not what would fit best for Lorna as her own character with her own thoughts, feelings, experiences, etc.

To put it another way, "Lorna should be full Xavierite because that's how she was used for most of her depictions" is not much different from "Lorna should only be Havok's girlfriend" or "Lorna should only be a supporting character" or "Lorna's not leader quality cause she's hardly ever led a team." There's a line between using depictions to inform writing, and using depictions to restrict potential. Jordan White did the latter, insisting she didn't have "star power" or "fan interest" to deserve big things.

I'm saying all of this as someone who's very against how DC changed Harley Quinn's look to be clown girl instead of harlequin-inspired like her codename and origins say it should be. DC's tried to explain those changes as evolving the character, but that they only came up with those explanations after the fact says they really just wanted to change her look.

So when I say these things regarding Lorna, it's not just change for change sake, or just for a whim. It's coming from me considering how she was originally created and the circumstances behind how she's been depicted. The ideal situation for her as I see it, based on how she was created, is someone who oscillates between both philosophies.

If these philosophies are a pendulum, and she's sent over to one side, then she needs to swing back to its opposite for some time. As herself, not under mind control or possession.

I don't think she should be a full Xavierite at all. Especially not at this point. I just want her to ultimately be heroic even if she struggles with that concept. Basically I'm afraid what they're going to do with her is make her a one note villain sort of how Magneto was for decades. Right now, after all of the announcements so far, I'm trying to hold out hope that she'll get her own X-Men team.

[M@Bowers2014]

I hope we're on the same page. If not, that's fine.

However, I see a big problem with the "she's been presented as purely Xavierite most of the time so that's what she is" thinking. Most of the time she's been presented as that is also the same time frame where she was presented as just Havok's girlfriend, and usually a damsel he needs to "save" at that. That perception of her as Xavierite with little or no darkness to her is bound up in how she could be used to benefit other characters, not what would fit best for Lorna as her own character with her own thoughts, feelings, experiences, etc.

To put it another way, "Lorna should be full Xavierite because that's how she was used for most of her depictions" is not much different from "Lorna should only be Havok's girlfriend" or "Lorna should only be a supporting character" or "Lorna's not leader quality cause she's hardly ever led a team." There's a line between using depictions to inform writing, and using depictions to restrict potential. Jordan White did the latter, insisting she didn't have "star power" or "fan interest" to deserve big things.

I'm saying all of this as someone who's very against how DC changed Harley Quinn's look to be clown girl instead of harlequin-inspired like her codename and origins say it should be. DC's tried to explain those changes as evolving the character, but that they only came up with those explanations after the fact says they really just wanted to change her look.

So when I say these things regarding Lorna, it's not just change for change sake, or just for a whim. It's coming from me considering how she was originally created and the circumstances behind how she's been depicted. The ideal situation for her as I see it, based on how she was created, is someone who oscillates between both philosophies.

If these philosophies are a pendulum, and she's sent over to one side, then she needs to swing back to its opposite for some time. As herself, not under mind control or possession.

Shameless plug here but the more I read your posts the more I think you might like my ongoing comic, MEMPHIS. It features mainly female characters that I'm trying to tell stories with that haven't already been done to death. My wife helps me with dialogue to help me avoid the usually pit falls that male writers fall into when writing female characters. Anyway, I have a thread in Creators Showcase where you can see preview pages from my various issues:

https://community.cbr.com/forumdispl...eator-Showcase

If this isn't allowed in this forum then I'll take this down but I'm proud of my work and want more people to be aware of it.

[jmc247]

There was a Lorna at Disney’s Hellfire Gala they put on.

[Dipter]

The solicit for X-Factor states that several mutant resistance movements have popped up in the aftermath of Krakoa. I think there’s a good chance that Polaris will lead one of these, so they can have the dramatic irony of Lorna fighting against Havok and her old team.

[M@Bowers2014]

The solicit for X-Factor states that several mutant resistance movements have popped up in the aftermath of Krakoa. I think there’s a good chance that Polaris will lead one of these, so they can have the dramatic irony of Lorna fighting against Havok and her old team.

I'd say that it's almost a guarantee at this point. The only questions are how long til she shows up with her group of resistance fighters, who will be in her group and how extreme will she/they be in their resistance? She might potentially show up solo but I think she's more likely to have formed her own team.

[Havok83]

The solicit for X-Factor states that several mutant resistance movements have popped up in the aftermath of Krakoa. I think there’s a good chance that Polaris will lead one of these, so they can have the dramatic irony of Lorna fighting against Havok and her old team.

Though it never materialized, id love it if they revisted Bunn's plotpoint of her opening up a mutant school at the end of X-Men Blue. Have her joined with Daken, Uniscione and a few of the disillusioned X-kids. It would be a good counter-group to many of the announced X-teams such as X-Factor and Emma/Kitty's and Cyclop's teams

[jmc247]

The solicit for X-Factor states that several mutant resistance movements have popped up in the aftermath of Krakoa. I think there’s a good chance that Polaris will lead one of these, so they can have the dramatic irony of Lorna fighting against Havok and her old team.

That was a standard soap trope from 90s X-Factor. Havok left X-Factor for the Brotherhood which he led with Dark Beast in the mid 90s when they needed to pull up sales.

It didn’t work because the audience could see through it. Meaning they were just creating artificial conflict for Havolaris soap not creating anything long term. Also because the book was self-contained. Havok breaking bad on X-Factor basically meant it was a thing for its own universe that didn’t impact characters outside it so why should fans outside the book care? No reason and they didn’t.

There are lessons for any team Lorna leads. A successful antagonist team can’t be self-contained to X-Factor. Having no reputation is a big problem for a team. Lorna joining the Acolytes meant something because the audience knew their reputation. A no name team comes with no baggage, but also no built-in drama. A new team has to build its own reputation.

There are also lessons from The Gifted seasons one and two. Namely be true to your characters and story arc and don’t pull your punches.

[berserkerclaw]

I dont like her in Fall of the house of X wheb she brought the Brood. I hope like Kitty she redeems herself if she appears. Its too bad she isnt X-Factor but i do want her back wihojt Mags or Havok though. Maybe if one of these book sgwt replaced down the line she on a new team book id love that