IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2024

[K7P5V]

Another missed potential of having a Dorma character back, if she had stayed it would have been very interesting to see Namor struggle with his memories of Dorma and having to interact with her doppelganger.

Indeed. For a sample, check out F4 #32 (1998):

If Dorma does come back I would want her to be a sorceress/priestess because I feel Atlantis has enough warriors. Andromeda fills the role of red head female atlantean warrior better imo.

Completely understandable. Very sound distribution, as a matter of fact...

[Doombot]

I can't remember now, but isn't that "Doom-world" the High Evolutionary's Counter Earth? Galactus destroyed it, so she would also be dead now, yes?

[K7P5V]

Exiles #82 - Empress Dorma (supposedly) perished when Proteus used his reality-altering abilities to raise Atlantis from the ocean floor, becoming its own island.
In the process, suffocating the trapped Atlanteans when they were no longer underwater.

[ImperiusWrecked]

The reason none of the other female characters stuck was because there was no world for them to stick to. Even Marrina, the longest lasting love after Dorma, was really a character from another book. Also, again I've just never liked the argument of "other characters are brought back all the time" as if 1) that was ever a good thing and 2) doing it will solve Namor's issues, it won't. Not that bringing her back has to do that, one could easily just say I want her back because she's a Silver Age icon, and that's just as valid. I wouldn't be upset if she were brought back, but it just isn't needed imo. Her death is one of the few things that still has meaning, and brings character to Namor's, well, character. No, that does not mean he's required to be forever in mourning, it just means that his mourning during those years actually meant something. He grew and developed as a character. Bringing back old dead characters only makes a story's world smaller and more contrived each time they do it, not to mention his pain and maturity during the following years would become meaningless. Every time they retcon character X now being connected to character Y, or character Z back from the dead and was the real villain the entire time! (gasp!) only makes the story world smaller and smaller. Namor needs the opposite. He never had, and doesn't need the "reset" button of a Simpsons episode or how the FF always end up back in their original spots together at the Baxter building, etc. He needs a bigger world, expanded cast, and the few who have managed to survive like Attuma and Tigershark, need to be modernized. Marvel and comics in general need to stop cannibalizing their own characters just for the sake of shock or name recognition. New characters will stick if you give them a book to stick to and time to let the glue dry.

Yeah, but again that comes down to a Editorial issue, not giving characters the chance to stick or let the story breath. I definitely think Dorma's death had meaning, but it's meaning has been around for 50 years, there's only so many stories writers are willing to make about Namor being sad, or her death's impact before they stopped doing it. The very nature of Marvel's (and DC's) characters is that they will never be shelved forever, they will never fully be taken out of rotation, because there is never really any end in sight. Again, imo if Namor's story had been one with a set beginning, middle, end, then yes I totally agree that Dorma would have been a part of the story and then missed when gone, but Namor's story is never really "pure" in the story sense, Namora's (and Nita's) very existence already undermines Namor's uniqueness and his solitary struggle of being the only Atlantean/Human hybrid, just because Marvel wanted female versions of the character to keep a trademark of. Dorma's death, and return wouldn't really hurt his story imo. But one of the things I do love about Namor's story is that it is much more linear than most other comic characters, he just gets older while Marvel resets the clock for other characters.

However I'm sure Namor will agree with you about the dead coming back XD

namor_90s.jpg

Indeed. For a sample, check out F4 #32 (1998):





Completely understandable. Very sound distribution, as a matter of fact...

This was a great example, I wish they could have capitalized on it more, had more stories around AU Dorma and Namor. But then again Marvel always brings in the AU Atlanteans then they kinda just forget about them or they die. Remember Nita and her "pulled from the timeline" self?

[ImperiusWrecked]

I made a Namor/Dorma fanvid:

[Felipe Silveira]

A few things about Namor in Marvel Rivals:
The game has a Team-Up mechanic, when you have two specific characters on the team, they gain a burst of damage, such as Magneto and Wanda. For some reason Namor's team-up is with Luna Snow.
The two characters also talk about, "sigh", Talokan.
I wonder if this is Marvel pushing synergy, and if this will make it into the comics.
The character seems to be strong, he is DPS.

NOTE: I didn't play the game, I don't have a PC for that, I followed some Overwatch streamers who were playing the beta.

[Holt]

Namor’s Marvel Rivals bio.

[Doombot]

There might be "synergy" in this game, or the odd non 616 piece of media, like that awful storybook, but they really can't do it for the main Marvel Universe, the two version are just too different. Plus, this game Namor already looks like some AU/Multiverse character anyway. He looks perfectly fine for what he is, aside from the grating single wing on each foot, but he's no 616 Namor.

[Doombot]

Yeah, but again that comes down to a Editorial issue, not giving characters the chance to stick or let the story breath. I definitely think Dorma's death had meaning, but it's meaning has been around for 50 years, there's only so many stories writers are willing to make about Namor being sad, or her death's impact before they stopped doing it. The very nature of Marvel's (and DC's) characters is that they will never be shelved forever, they will never fully be taken out of rotation, because there is never really any end in sight. Again, imo if Namor's story had been one with a set beginning, middle, end, then yes I totally agree that Dorma would have been a part of the story and then missed when gone, but Namor's story is never really "pure" in the story sense, Namora's (and Nita's) very existence already undermines Namor's uniqueness and his solitary struggle of being the only Atlantean/Human hybrid, just because Marvel wanted female versions of the character to keep a trademark of. Dorma's death, and return wouldn't really hurt his story imo. But one of the things I do love about Namor's story is that it is much more linear than most other comic characters, he just gets older while Marvel resets the clock for other characters.

However I'm sure Namor will agree with you about the dead coming back XD

Ultimately, we'll just have to come to terms with the fact we just don't agree on this lol, which is perfectly fine. For my part, it really has very little to do with Dorma herself, you know I love Dorma. I just despise the overly-worn tropes of resurrected old characters, especially when said character is from a much more well liked period with fondly remembered stories. It reeks of weak storytelling and hype with no substance. And again, it having been done a thousand times with other characters doesn't really sway me (not that you're trying to) and has it every really helped anything? Were Spider-Man books really made better by digging up Osborn for example, after the tragic story of his and Gwen's deaths? Writers haven't been able to stop mining that story for decades. Each time it's more eye-rollingly bad than the last. That event was something Peter carried with him as a character for many years, helping develop and define him as a hero. Then it was all just undone for cheap dramatics. Much like Spider-Man in the Silver and Bronze Ages, Namor didn't not have that "Simpsons" reset button. He didn't just return to the Avengers or X-Mansions, or the Baxter Building at the end of a story arc ready for the next one. After the mid-90's Namor no longer had that and was just sort of lost in the current of Marvel whims and events. I suppose, in that sense, you could do anything to Namor or characters from his world and most people would just shrug as it has no consequences really, good or ill. (Unless you're us lol) Most Marvel fans barely know who Namor truly is, or have only encountered him in some badly written guest spot or cameo.

I guess at this point one could argue everyone else in Namor's world has been brought back from the dead, His father, his mother, his grandfather, his cousin, his cousin's clone, his ex-wife, HIMSELF, Atlantis...repeatedly lol, hell even Attuma. Has Tigershark died yet? I can't remember if Vashti died at one point. I'm sure I'm missing some. So it could easily be said, hey why not?! Or you know, say enough is effing enough lol. Let something, anything stick and have meaning in this character's life. I mean, of Namor's small supporting cast what percentage have already been resurrected? I bet that number is pretty damn high.

The only no-brainer for resurrection, the one that should have come back as a true menace in Namor's life, is King Naga. Hey Marvel writers, how about instead of bringing back Namor's mom's BODY to be, like, a sexy-witch or his grandfather to be, like, evil lord of the vampires (!?!) how about the dude who was given extraordinary long life and insane powers by the Serpent Crown? You know, like a good idea?

I made a Namor/Dorma fanvid:

This is super fun.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Ultimately, we'll just have to come to terms with the fact we just don't agree on this lol, which is perfectly fine. For my part, it really has very little to do with Dorma herself, you know I love Dorma. I just despise the overly-worn tropes of resurrected old characters, especially when said character is from a much more well liked period with fondly remembered stories. It reeks of weak storytelling and hype with no substance. And again, it having been done a thousand times with other characters doesn't really sway me (not that you're trying to) and has it every really helped anything? Were Spider-Man books really made better by digging up Osborn for example, after the tragic story of his and Gwen's deaths? Writers haven't been able to stop mining that story for decades. Each time it's more eye-rollingly bad than the last. That event was something Peter carried with him as a character for many years, helping develop and define him as a hero. Then it was all just undone for cheap dramatics. Much like Spider-Man in the Silver and Bronze Ages, Namor didn't not have that "Simpsons" reset button. He didn't just return to the Avengers or X-Mansions, or the Baxter Building at the end of a story arc ready for the next one. After the mid-90's Namor no longer had that and was just sort of lost in the current of Marvel whims and events. I suppose, in that sense, you could do anything to Namor or characters from his world and most people would just shrug as it has no consequences really, good or ill. (Unless you're us lol) Most Marvel fans barely know who Namor truly is, or have only encountered him in some badly written guest spot or cameo.

I guess at this point one could argue everyone else in Namor's world has been brought back from the dead, His father, his mother, his grandfather, his cousin, his cousin's clone, his ex-wife, HIMSELF, Atlantis...repeatedly lol, hell even Attuma. Has Tigershark died yet? I can't remember if Vashti died at one point. I'm sure I'm missing some. So it could easily be said, hey why not?! Or you know, say enough is effing enough lol. Let something, anything stick and have meaning in this character's life. I mean, of Namor's small supporting cast what percentage have already been resurrected? I bet that number is pretty damn high.

The only no-brainer for resurrection, the one that should have come back as a true menace in Namor's life, is King Naga. Hey Marvel writers, how about instead of bringing back Namor's mom's BODY to be, like, a sexy-witch or his grandfather to be, like, evil lord of the vampires (!?!) how about the dude who was given extraordinary long life and insane powers by the Serpent Crown? You know, like a good idea?



This is super fun.

Thanks!

lol, yeah, we just have to agree to disagree, which is fine! I do however agree with you about bringing back Naga, or at the very least Llyra, she isn't even dead and she would make a great Foe for Namor again. I don't think Tiger Shark has died yet, I know Attuma did once. I do think Suma-Ket should make a come back because he has such potential and for him death isn't really a barrier anyways, necromagic and stuff.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Does anyone know if Namor is going to appear in Bloodhunt? I'd love to see him as a vampire or fighting them for a while, lol. Even though the underwater vampires were a thing, I want him to fight surface vampires.

[K7P5V]

^^^I know, right?! Namor has plenty of experience against surface-vampires...