Enchantè! Amora the Enchantress Appreciation 2024

[Charlie_1981]

I don't get it either and why it's such a prevalent view.

100% agree. They don't end up benefiting the films and since film viewers do not carry over to the comics, all it does is turn away comic readers. It certainly doesn't promise that movie fans will become comic fans so statistically it's been proven that isn't the case.

It really is a very surreal and difficult topic to understand, I would encourage myself to be as faithful as possible to the comics, without them neither the series nor the movies would exist in the first place, many of them drink directly from the source even if the director wants go the other way without explanation, maybe it's a matter of ego after all or ignorance or they really can't for other reasons.

[whitecrown]

6) True, there are also times in which Morgana's hair color varies depending on the comic you read, from dark reddish to sometimes purple or violet or completely black, it is not easy to identify the correct one.

7) True, and in the comics in something that we have seen with known rivalries (I put the Marvel ones because it is somewhat easier and otherwise we would never end) Reed Richards and Victor Von Doom, Xavier and Magneto, Thor and Loki, Captain America and the Red Skull (perhaps this last case not so much), The Thing and Hulk, She-Hulk and Titania, Jean Grey and Madelyne Pryor, Peter Parker and Ben Reilly (or the Green Goblin or Doctor Octopus), Scarlet Witch and Other Sorceresses, Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers) and Rogue... the same thing happens with brothers, for example with Colossus and his brother Mikhail or Havok and Cyclops. With Amora and Lorelei we don't know too much about their lives but it is evident that Lorelei has problems with her sister and vice versa, only that Lorelei gives it more importance than her older sister when they are both in the same room.

What I had thought here is that while Amora explains it to her son, in the past of Asgard, Sylvie Lushton before recovering her lost memories is experiencing it almost at the same time as the story is told, taking a young teenager Amora to live as her father dies before her eyes and is protected by him until the end, Morgause makes her attack but disguises it in another way to not be noticed and all while Amora in the present explains with pain in her heart what she remembers about her father and how heroic he was to her son and that her father was a great man and would surely have been a better grandfather if he had lived.

Yes, in many things she is part including when they find her corpse after the disappearance of an entire kingdom like that of the frost giants and remove her emerald armor and mask, initiating a crisis of faith in Amora herself who doubts her own theory about Sylvie being her mother without knowing anything about what happened within the time vortex and how Sylvie was divided into two people and that began a series of events that have led to what is currently happening just as no one knows what happens to Loki who seems to be in a kind of a catatonic coma and that no one remembers what happened and why because of Lorelei's actions.

10) I hope that's the case because those movies could have been much better and it's really sad that there wasn't a little more effort put into it

6) Yes, Morgana's hair has also always confused me. I've even seen it pink sometimes.

7) Yes, very good point that there are so many classic Marvel rivalries that exist. In fact, pretty much all the A-Listers have a rival with some others being Wolverine vs Sabretooth, Daredevil vs Kingpin, Elektra vs Bullseye, and MJ vs Gwen. Giving Amora her own rivalry is one that puts her in the same class as these others and a sisterly rivalry is so rare unlike brother vs brother.

That's a very neat idea that Amora explains everything to her son at the same time that Sylvie is experiencing it herself. A nice reminder that Sylvie being thrown into the timestream will cause her to experience all this in real life and not just in the form of a oral story.

When they remove the emerald armor and mask, does Sylvie still look like herself? Or has she aged or begun to resemble someone else? I wonder if it would also be assumed that what happens to this Sylvie double, they find in the armor, is connected to what happens to Loki being in his coma.

10) It seems like Marvel is reversing gears and trying to bring back all the original characters into the MCU but I don't know what that speaks for Thor because he's never left. And it doesn't seem like Asgard is high on their list of things to work with.

[whitecrown]

Yes, Lorelei also thinks that maybe Morgana's magic, if she can recover it, can help her live completely again without Hela getting involved because her condition is not good and she can hardly maintain it, although the tension of being queen is not helping her much and she cannot ask her older sister, she is too proud to admit it in front of her and she does it for her family, besides feeling hurt with her sister Amora for not telling her that she has a nephew but Lorelei also did not tell her that she had three daughters. She tells Morgana because she needs it to be someone who has no relationship with Asgard and not an Asgardian who is dedicated to explaining everything out there just like the rumors of her separation from Sigurd also being a better queen, have someone who can consider an equal and that she values and respects Morgana even with their problems.

Completely, she also becomes quite attached to them and they even help her overcome her own pain over her older sister (Morgana still has the gun she used against Morgause in Broxton as a reminder of her own pain and memory) or what she doesn't even know how to feel about a woman who ruined her as Lorelei.

Yes, a good rivalry with a dynamic quite different from others already seen.

Yes, that would be good but there would always be that tension, although using it for good, not bad.

Yes, the relationship improves a lot, it could even lead to something romantic or simply a strange feeling, Morgana helps Lorelei to overcome and not feel guilty about the Frost Giants fate because in no case was it her fault but rather the big explosion occurred within the kingdom itself, not from the outside, but it does not help at all to erase the entire frost giants race from memory because no one knows the true nature of that race (Loki is still alive) or if they have really died or can be reborn as long as the cold exists. Morgana and Lorelei are the only ones who remember them because they are in the middle of everything and the big explosion is what causes the birth of the time vortex, problems in all the kingdoms, an eternal night and distortion and the triumphant arrival of Morgause who finally finds a way to return using the concept of Alpha and Omega, beginning and end, the time vortex existed but had not yet been created and needed an entire kingdom to disappear by mixing it with the power of the cosmic cube to break the time barrier and open a door that could not be opened.

Does Lorelei specifically not tell Amora about her daughters because Amora didn't tell Lorelei about Alvi? I can see her being hurt enough that she decides to go tit for tat. It does surprise me though that in a world like Asgard, they could keep secrets like this from each other especially for so long considering the ages of the children. And that makes sense the Morgana becomes a confidant specifically because she is not Asgardian or from Asgard. There is a feeling of security and non-judgment with her that Lorelei can't find with others.

I would have guessed that Lorelei's daughters would have helped bridge the gap between her and Amora so it's quite the twist that those girls do help breach a gap between sisters but between Morgause and Morgana instead.

Are most Asgardians open to the idea of same-sex relationships? It is something normal for them unlike on Earth? And do all the gods partake in same-sex lovers or is it just a select few like Loki for example? In the case of Loki being in a coma, I'm assuming this is because his half-frost giant side has been erased. Morgana also remembering the frost giants is a genius concept because it further explains why Lorelei leans on her so much and finds her trustworthy. She's the only other one to know what she did but as a non-native Asgardian, would not judge her for this. Of course, they do not suspect that this is what causes the time cortex which will affect all these characters to their core.

[whitecrown]

It is not known, at that time Odin's father, Bor, would be in charge of everything, perhaps he would not even consider it while the young Odin would spend time with his brothers, his squire and the young Sylvie Lushton that they found. Meanwhile, Morgause is with other things until she recharges herself inside Sylvie's own body, she learns as she reaches certain places that it is not known if they still exist in the present, they are many thousands of years ago and she continues learning and seeking knowledge while still thinking that Sylvie is too lucky in life and has not suffered enough.

Yes, the first time they met, Sylvie was the only one who could have been part of the team and that the Young Avengers still considered her despite her affair with Wiccan to which they did not give importance, Sylvie could have developed a greater sense of guilt and consider herself an idiot. Sylvie, by sacrificing herself in the past, finds a way to communicate with her granddaughters in the present and even with her daughter Lorelei who practically revives for the second time and in real time how her mother died but happy that her daughter is well, Amora is too far away to realize nothing hence her crisis of faith upon encountering Sylvie's variant later on, Sylvie uses Morgause's power to her advantage knowing that she can only say goodbye. Morgana helps Lorelei's daughters overcome simply by being by her side, something that Lorelei ends up valuing more than anything because she herself cannot and Morgana realizes that Lorelei is one step away from a nervous breakdown.

Yes, it really is an animal that is more loyal than it seems and that, like people, suffers and feels.
Sylvie feels guilt and pain when she thinks she is alone in the world after losing her parents, her cat helps her keep her company and was the only thing she had left of her parents in Broxton, but in Asgard everything changes until her disappearance, her relationship with her new stepbrother Alvi and Lorelei's daughters and a feeling of belonging in addition to her ability and hidden talent to use her mother's teachings when it comes to being a great cook (even challenging Volstagg, who is a great gourmet, to eat everything she is capable of preparing) among other things because magic does not believe that she is doing well even though she is an apprentice of The Enchantress, is something that might be good for her if she doesn't throw her out at the end.
Morgause only feels anger, rage, envy and hates what she has become although she wishes she had power, the cat thing is something that, being so intelligent, also escaped her and that could have prevented what happened in Broxton and how everyone lost something in their battle.
Morgana takes care of the cat when Amora leaves her alone after what happened with Sylvie and the time vortex, causing her to spend the entire way to Asgard in her company.

Ah that makes sense. And I can definitely see Morgause getting more resentful as the decades go by and she feels Sylvie has not suffered nearly enough as Morgause has.

Your comments about Sylvie and the Young Avengers remind me that this is another thing the MCU cannot give us now. They are making a Young Avengers show but Sylvie, as a contemporary of Loki and his variant, cannot work on that team for age reasons. Unless they de-age her or introduce a teen Loki and we get a teen Sylvie variant to go with him. Yes, I can see now why Amora has this crisis of faith as she is too far away to get a goodbye from Sylvie. I wonder if this will cause tension between her and Lorelei as Lorelei does get a final moment with her mother unlike Amora. The Morgana/Lorelei relationship I think comes across as the one that is the most masterfully done and you feel a real bond between these two, despite some bad blood. In a way, this relationship helps redeem the problems between Morgana/Morgause and Amora/Lorelei.

It definitely makes sense to me that Sylvie being thrust in Asgard would change her perspective on so many things being introduced to her that she would not have as much time for her precious cat. I didn't make the connection that her skills with food would attract the eye of the ever-corpulent Volstagg. I can see him holding her very dear for that reason alone. It also helps give Sylvie something to channel her talents into that doesn't involve magic.
How ironic that Morgause, had she been level-headed enough to notice the cat, could have stopped this whole predicament from happening.

[whitecrown]

It really is a very surreal and difficult topic to understand, I would encourage myself to be as faithful as possible to the comics, without them neither the series nor the movies would exist in the first place, many of them drink directly from the source even if the director wants go the other way without explanation, maybe it's a matter of ego after all or ignorance or they really can't for other reasons.

I agree with you and I think in most cases, fidelity to the source material should be highlighted. I never understand why famous books that are best-sellers and attracted so many readers get so heavily altered on the screen. People liked the product in the first place so changing it only means alienating those who enjoyed it. If it wasn't broken in the first place, why feel the need to fix it?

[Charlie_1981]

6) Yes, Morgana's hair has also always confused me. I've even seen it pink sometimes.

7) Yes, very good point that there are so many classic Marvel rivalries that exist. In fact, pretty much all the A-Listers have a rival with some others being Wolverine vs Sabretooth, Daredevil vs Kingpin, Elektra vs Bullseye, and MJ vs Gwen. Giving Amora her own rivalry is one that puts her in the same class as these others and a sisterly rivalry is so rare unlike brother vs brother.

That's a very neat idea that Amora explains everything to her son at the same time that Sylvie is experiencing it herself. A nice reminder that Sylvie being thrown into the timestream will cause her to experience all this in real life and not just in the form of a oral story.

When they remove the emerald armor and mask, does Sylvie still look like herself? Or has she aged or begun to resemble someone else? I wonder if it would also be assumed that what happens to this Sylvie double, they find in the armor, is connected to what happens to Loki being in his coma.

10) It seems like Marvel is reversing gears and trying to bring back all the original characters into the MCU but I don't know what that speaks for Thor because he's never left. And it doesn't seem like Asgard is high on their list of things to work with.

6) And I also feel confused with those things and with other characters it happens too, the fact is that with Red Sonja it seemed meaningful to me to comment on the resemblance with Lorelei or rather the other way around.

7) Yes, but in DC I think it is common to have some rivalries also between sisters, Wonder Woman has something with almost all the women of Themyscira, perhaps the most significant case could be Donna Troy or Artemis without talking about Circe or Cheetah but none of The latter are part of her family. In Marvel there must also be in some situation and depending on which character, in the 70s-80s Amora had a rivalry with Brunnhilde the Valkyrie and removing some small flashback with the Fear Itself: The Fearless mini from a few years ago, it is clear that nothing about Amora has been explored again with the Valkyries, so I thought Lorelei could occupy that space because it's more personal.

Yes, and it is perhaps even more painful and it would explain why Amora never explains things about herself and why she would prefer that no one knew anything, leaving everything as it is because it means going beyond her own memories and also because she knows that things were much more than what she remembers, she was a teenager at that time and loved her father more than anyone and always knew that there was a strange and sinister presence with them at all times. Amora explains the story to her son because she loves him and knows that those kinds of things have been with her all her life and because moving away and cutting ties means that he feels protected, it is good to know about family roots and that not everything is bad with how she is or became over time.

Yes, it would be because the Sylvie of the past living her life there does grow older, however the variant Sylvie does not age because several months have passed since her arrival with the time vortex, then she makes her own sword, her armor and decides that a mask could be a good idea, in addition to starting a series of actions that make her begin to be known in Asgard and several of the kingdoms as a heroine that no one knows and with a lot of mystery, creating a myth little by little during weeks with increasingly bizarre ideas and stories among the population wondering who she is and why she does what she does. There are some differences with the Original Sylvie and even Sylvie's cat could identify her by her smell but noticing that there is something different from what she knows. Loki's thing is because of the consequence of what Lorelei does, maybe she doesn't destroy the kingdom, she has the idea but things happen that make it seem like something different than what it ends up being, Lorelei is guilty but only of using the cube to erase from the memories the existence and story of the frost giants and that is why Loki is affected, which later benefits Morgause by getting rid of a possible enemy without doing practically anything except destroying his land with her arrival.

10) I wish they were able to improve things because otherwise people would end up leaving en masse and not paying attention to what they announce because the quality is not good or for fear that they end up being predictable, surely the biggest fans still have faith that something improve and they still believe in it.

[Charlie_1981]

Does Lorelei specifically not tell Amora about her daughters because Amora didn't tell Lorelei about Alvi? I can see her being hurt enough that she decides to go tit for tat. It does surprise me though that in a world like Asgard, they could keep secrets like this from each other especially for so long considering the ages of the children. And that makes sense the Morgana becomes a confidant specifically because she is not Asgardian or from Asgard. There is a feeling of security and non-judgment with her that Lorelei can't find with others.

I would have guessed that Lorelei's daughters would have helped bridge the gap between her and Amora so it's quite the twist that those girls do help breach a gap between sisters but between Morgause and Morgana instead.

Are most Asgardians open to the idea of same-sex relationships? It is something normal for them unlike on Earth? And do all the gods partake in same-sex lovers or is it just a select few like Loki for example? In the case of Loki being in a coma, I'm assuming this is because his half-frost giant side has been erased. Morgana also remembering the frost giants is a genius concept because it further explains why Lorelei leans on her so much and finds her trustworthy. She's the only other one to know what she did but as a non-native Asgardian, would not judge her for this. Of course, they do not suspect that this is what causes the time cortex which will affect all these characters to their core.

Yes, anyway, think about the relationship between Thor and Odin, Odin never explains anything to his son and keeps continuous and constant secrets that when revealed do not exactly improve their relationship as father and son and with Loki it is no different, perhaps even worse.
Surprisingly, although Lorelei feels hurt by her older sister because of this fact and that it does not justify the fact that she herself has not told her about the family that she has created with Sigurd, which means that she already had a relationship prior to that of the Loki: Agent of Asgard series, she does not hesitate to defend her when Alvi argues heatedly with her mother, even on the verge of raising her hand against her, which then causes Lorelei to begin to be respected and with a speech about family that reaches many hearts, making her who people distrusted her for being who she is and having done the things she did in the past, be more loved, then comes the thing about her spell against her sister and the test that mother and son must go through to improve their relationship.
Yes, Lorelei and Morgana improve their relationship a lot with those revelations and even Morgana against her will participates in a tournament facing the mysterious Emerald warrior (variant of Sylvie), some Valkyries and Sif, in addition to Lorelei herself, Morgana believes that she will surely lose because she is not a goddess and is a normal woman since she lost her magic in Broxton, although Lorelei's daughters encourage her.

Yes, Morgana can only talk about good things related to her sister but those are very distant times in Camelot and her sister clearly lost her mind when she stole her power by taking advantage of her vulnerability. Morgana gives good advice to the girls about staying together, support each other and be strong because otherwise they may end up like her or like their mother Lorelei and their aunt Amora.

I have no idea, for me it is not strange because the Valkyrie would be one of the few that could be in that description, so it would not be strange at all in the case of Amora and with Lorelei who can sometimes act as her sister too, it is true that it is only known more of Loki but it wouldn't be anything strange with other characters, maybe even with Fandral.

Yes, it would be for that reason that on the frost giant side, Thor spends time with him knowing that he could do something if he knew what he was up against. Morgana and Lorelei know this because they are in the center of everything and sometimes before things happen they fight over the cosmic cube that ends up disappearing, reaching the center of the explosion being part of it and what is opening, Morgana could seem like she does it to recover what she was lost using that power or simply protect her investment by feigning concern for Lorelei's mental state, but in reality both women experience many things together that make them so close that it would not be a strange question to avoid greater evils or great regret, but they does not expect an explosion so big from within the kingdom that it makes both women run faster than they had ever run in their lives by the avalanche waves or face an army of spirits emerging from the barren lands left by the explosion, causing Morgana to motivate Lorelei, fighting alone in a heroic way remembering her brother Arthur and how he saw things so differently from her.

[Charlie_1981]

Ah that makes sense. And I can definitely see Morgause getting more resentful as the decades go by and she feels Sylvie has not suffered nearly enough as Morgause has.

Your comments about Sylvie and the Young Avengers remind me that this is another thing the MCU cannot give us now. They are making a Young Avengers show but Sylvie, as a contemporary of Loki and his variant, cannot work on that team for age reasons. Unless they de-age her or introduce a teen Loki and we get a teen Sylvie variant to go with him. Yes, I can see now why Amora has this crisis of faith as she is too far away to get a goodbye from Sylvie. I wonder if this will cause tension between her and Lorelei as Lorelei does get a final moment with her mother unlike Amora. The Morgana/Lorelei relationship I think comes across as the one that is the most masterfully done and you feel a real bond between these two, despite some bad blood. In a way, this relationship helps redeem the problems between Morgana/Morgause and Amora/Lorelei.

It definitely makes sense to me that Sylvie being thrust in Asgard would change her perspective on so many things being introduced to her that she would not have as much time for her precious cat. I didn't make the connection that her skills with food would attract the eye of the ever-corpulent Volstagg. I can see him holding her very dear for that reason alone. It also helps give Sylvie something to channel her talents into that doesn't involve magic.
How ironic that Morgause, had she been level-headed enough to notice the cat, could have stopped this whole predicament from happening.

Yes, little by little Morgause gets what she wants and if someone has suspicions she eliminates them or simply takes them out of time with her temporal abilities, she does not do it in the body of Sylvie Lushton so that no one gets involved in what they are not called or do that Sylvie seems suspicious, Sylvie's amnesia benefits her although she wants to be remembered by her to know what she faces when the time comes, Morgause does it as a ghost or mysterious presence, she lets time continue moving forward and while she observes, she learns, She is a ghost because of her experiments in Broxton, constantly trying things and thinking about what to do when a body loses its soul which leads to what happened after her sister Morgana killed her still feeling the heat of the bullet in her head even in her ghost form as an indelible scar and surprisingly the mysterious forces of the vortex come to affect her, becoming what she is and acquiring a power greater than that of her sister Morgana.

Yes, and it's a shame, we already saw a young Loki in an episode of the first season of Loki. And the Sylvie of the MCU is not even remotely like the one in the comics. Amora has this crisis of faith because at the beginning of the story she did not feel motivated and there are moments in which she does not participate too much because she considers that what happens is not her thing, she had some sadness in her eyes until she sees an angry Sylvie after learning that she has lost her parents in Broxton after returning after so long and Amora confronts her which leads her to think about her mother and the impossible theory (little by little it stops being impossible) that Sylvie looks too similar. This theory finishes being what motivates Amora to help her because she doesn't see a young girl but rather her mother every time she looks into her eyes, hence after seeing the Sylvie variant she believes she has made a big mistake and that condemned an innocent young woman who trusted and believed in her and who may have felt betrayed in her last moments thinking about her. There ends up being tension between both sisters for sure, but that is after Lorelei is able to assimilate everything and understand it since it is strange that both eras can be synchronized in such a way, because reliving the trauma of the loss is not good for her, especially being a queen, remembering Sylvie and realizing that she was always her mother and that many things are beginning to make some sense in her life specially when she helped a young girl from Surtur's fire demons in their attack to New York long time ago. About Morgana and Lorelei, I'm glad you like the type of relationship they have from being enemies who have never seen each other before to best friends after going through a lot.

Yes, Sylvie would have those skills because in Broxton her mother was a famous chef with great experience and renown and as a child Sylvie liked to practice trying to reach the level of her mother, during her disappearance to the kingdom where she was sent by Amora at the end of the Illuminati series, Sylvie uses those abilities and manages to stop a war with just that while she was looking for a way to return home, becoming quite loved by many people, making her absence throughout this time justified by her own comfort. Volstagg would not hesitate for a second to consider her her favorite cook, which leads him to have problems with his wife and some of her many daughters. The cat passes through several hands until in the end she stays with Alvi. Sylvie would also have some carpentry skills inherited from her father knowing how to build things from scratch what means that Sylvie is more than just a pretty face.

What hurts Morgause the most is the fact that she is innocent and is equally blamed but she was going to do worse things with her sister's power and luckily she did not manage to train to master it hence she ended up being defeated. The problem is that both problems (Sylvie's parents death and Rise of Morgause) were put together and mixed in such a way that they seemed to fit together when the reality was different from having followed the investigation from the origin leading to the cat. Morgause had a terrible life in Camelot and her second chance at life was badly ruined by her rebirth.

[Charlie_1981]

I agree with you and I think in most cases, fidelity to the source material should be highlighted. I never understand why famous books that are best-sellers and attracted so many readers get so heavily altered on the screen. People liked the product in the first place so changing it only means alienating those who enjoyed it. If it wasn't broken in the first place, why feel the need to fix it?

I've been asking myself that for many years. I don't understand why the adaptation shouldn't be as faithful as possible to the whole when it should be able to. I understand that the issue of superheroes goes directly to what is a blockbuster, and they cost an immense sum of money that is needed so that what are superpowers, localitations, that are difficult to see can be possible, something that is easier to see in an animated series than in a live-action series, I think that with One Piece on Netflix they have even tried to do With the author of the manga himself being part of it, there are failures and successes and difficult things to see regarding what we know but the final result is what matters in the end. I think The Boys is really good and they did a great work on 3 seasons, four soon.

[whitecrown]

6) And I also feel confused with those things and with other characters it happens too, the fact is that with Red Sonja it seemed meaningful to me to comment on the resemblance with Lorelei or rather the other way around.

7) Yes, but in DC I think it is common to have some rivalries also between sisters, Wonder Woman has something with almost all the women of Themyscira, perhaps the most significant case could be Donna Troy or Artemis without talking about Circe or Cheetah but none of The latter are part of her family. In Marvel there must also be in some situation and depending on which character, in the 70s-80s Amora had a rivalry with Brunnhilde the Valkyrie and removing some small flashback with the Fear Itself: The Fearless mini from a few years ago, it is clear that nothing about Amora has been explored again with the Valkyries, so I thought Lorelei could occupy that space because it's more personal.

Yes, and it is perhaps even more painful and it would explain why Amora never explains things about herself and why she would prefer that no one knew anything, leaving everything as it is because it means going beyond her own memories and also because she knows that things were much more than what she remembers, she was a teenager at that time and loved her father more than anyone and always knew that there was a strange and sinister presence with them at all times. Amora explains the story to her son because she loves him and knows that those kinds of things have been with her all her life and because moving away and cutting ties means that he feels protected, it is good to know about family roots and that not everything is bad with how she is or became over time.

Yes, it would be because the Sylvie of the past living her life there does grow older, however the variant Sylvie does not age because several months have passed since her arrival with the time vortex, then she makes her own sword, her armor and decides that a mask could be a good idea, in addition to starting a series of actions that make her begin to be known in Asgard and several of the kingdoms as a heroine that no one knows and with a lot of mystery, creating a myth little by little during weeks with increasingly bizarre ideas and stories among the population wondering who she is and why she does what she does. There are some differences with the Original Sylvie and even Sylvie's cat could identify her by her smell but noticing that there is something different from what she knows. Loki's thing is because of the consequence of what Lorelei does, maybe she doesn't destroy the kingdom, she has the idea but things happen that make it seem like something different than what it ends up being, Lorelei is guilty but only of using the cube to erase from the memories the existence and story of the frost giants and that is why Loki is affected, which later benefits Morgause by getting rid of a possible enemy without doing practically anything except destroying his land with her arrival.

10) I wish they were able to improve things because otherwise people would end up leaving en masse and not paying attention to what they announce because the quality is not good or for fear that they end up being predictable, surely the biggest fans still have faith that something improve and they still believe in it.

6) Yes that makes sense that you saw enough resemblance between Lorelei and Red Sonja.

7) DC generally treats their female characters better which might be why they have more sisterly rivalries than Marvel does. Like you said, the Valkyrie/Amora rivalry has been more or less ignored for some time now so that leaves it open for Lorelei.

It explains a lot about Amora's psyche and frame of mind to me now knowing more about her backstory and how she grew up with all the losses in her life between her parents and having an idea that something dark and sinister was plaguing her family. Telling Alvi all this helps him understand her and what threats might be posed to their family.

I see, that's interesting that the variant Sylvie doesn't age. I can see why she'd be such a mystery to all of Asgard and how everyone would have a different idea about her. No one would think the same exact thing because she is so mysterious and unknown. I like that Sylvie's cat can more or less tell the difference though. I see, that explains why Loki is affected the way he is. And it's true that this inadvertently supports Morgause by getting rid of a threat.

10) I can feel general audiences already losing interest in the MCU with every new movie so Marvel really needs to come up with a plan fast. They seem to have an idea that they've messed up Thor since even Chris Hemsworth says he regrets the last movie now.

[whitecrown]

Yes, anyway, think about the relationship between Thor and Odin, Odin never explains anything to his son and keeps continuous and constant secrets that when revealed do not exactly improve their relationship as father and son and with Loki it is no different, perhaps even worse.
Surprisingly, although Lorelei feels hurt by her older sister because of this fact and that it does not justify the fact that she herself has not told her about the family that she has created with Sigurd, which means that she already had a relationship prior to that of the Loki: Agent of Asgard series, she does not hesitate to defend her when Alvi argues heatedly with her mother, even on the verge of raising her hand against her, which then causes Lorelei to begin to be respected and with a speech about family that reaches many hearts, making her who people distrusted her for being who she is and having done the things she did in the past, be more loved, then comes the thing about her spell against her sister and the test that mother and son must go through to improve their relationship.
Yes, Lorelei and Morgana improve their relationship a lot with those revelations and even Morgana against her will participates in a tournament facing the mysterious Emerald warrior (variant of Sylvie), some Valkyries and Sif, in addition to Lorelei herself, Morgana believes that she will surely lose because she is not a goddess and is a normal woman since she lost her magic in Broxton, although Lorelei's daughters encourage her.

Yes, Morgana can only talk about good things related to her sister but those are very distant times in Camelot and her sister clearly lost her mind when she stole her power by taking advantage of her vulnerability. Morgana gives good advice to the girls about staying together, support each other and be strong because otherwise they may end up like her or like their mother Lorelei and their aunt Amora.

I have no idea, for me it is not strange because the Valkyrie would be one of the few that could be in that description, so it would not be strange at all in the case of Amora and with Lorelei who can sometimes act as her sister too, it is true that it is only known more of Loki but it wouldn't be anything strange with other characters, maybe even with Fandral.

Yes, it would be for that reason that on the frost giant side, Thor spends time with him knowing that he could do something if he knew what he was up against. Morgana and Lorelei know this because they are in the center of everything and sometimes before things happen they fight over the cosmic cube that ends up disappearing, reaching the center of the explosion being part of it and what is opening, Morgana could seem like she does it to recover what she was lost using that power or simply protect her investment by feigning concern for Lorelei's mental state, but in reality both women experience many things together that make them so close that it would not be a strange question to avoid greater evils or great regret, but they does not expect an explosion so big from within the kingdom that it makes both women run faster than they had ever run in their lives by the avalanche waves or face an army of spirits emerging from the barren lands left by the explosion, causing Morgana to motivate Lorelei, fighting alone in a heroic way remembering her brother Arthur and how he saw things so differently from her.

That's a good point that the Thor/Odin relationship is very one-sided and sorta demonstrates what the norm is in Asgard. And you're also right that despite Lorelei feeling hurt by her sister's secrecy, she still defends her to the end when Alvi has issues with her. It shows how strong that sisterly bond is when push comes to shove.
The Emerald Warrior must have a great design I'm sure. I'm curious if Morgause has any idea about her identity or if she's as equally clueless. Would be very interesting to see Valkyrie and Sif fight against the Emerald Warrior, even though Morgana is the one in the tournament facing them all.

It must have been so long since Camelot that it makes sense that the relationship between Morgana and Morgause is not as strong as it once was. Especially with Morgana bonding with so many in Asgard instead like Lorelei and Lorelei's daughters.

Good point about the Valkyrie and Fandral. I forgot about them and Fandral especially seems like he would not have issues with the same gender.

I agree with your take that Morgana may pretend she is using the situation to regain her lost power but in fact, she is very closely bonded to Lorelei at this point. It's interesting how in the history of Asgard and their latest and greatest ruler, much thanks must be given to a non-Asgardian in the form of Morgana because of how much she motivates Lorelei.

[whitecrown]

Yes, little by little Morgause gets what she wants and if someone has suspicions she eliminates them or simply takes them out of time with her temporal abilities, she does not do it in the body of Sylvie Lushton so that no one gets involved in what they are not called or do that Sylvie seems suspicious, Sylvie's amnesia benefits her although she wants to be remembered by her to know what she faces when the time comes, Morgause does it as a ghost or mysterious presence, she lets time continue moving forward and while she observes, she learns, She is a ghost because of her experiments in Broxton, constantly trying things and thinking about what to do when a body loses its soul which leads to what happened after her sister Morgana killed her still feeling the heat of the bullet in her head even in her ghost form as an indelible scar and surprisingly the mysterious forces of the vortex come to affect her, becoming what she is and acquiring a power greater than that of her sister Morgana.

Yes, and it's a shame, we already saw a young Loki in an episode of the first season of Loki. And the Sylvie of the MCU is not even remotely like the one in the comics. Amora has this crisis of faith because at the beginning of the story she did not feel motivated and there are moments in which she does not participate too much because she considers that what happens is not her thing, she had some sadness in her eyes until she sees an angry Sylvie after learning that she has lost her parents in Broxton after returning after so long and Amora confronts her which leads her to think about her mother and the impossible theory (little by little it stops being impossible) that Sylvie looks too similar. This theory finishes being what motivates Amora to help her because she doesn't see a young girl but rather her mother every time she looks into her eyes, hence after seeing the Sylvie variant she believes she has made a big mistake and that condemned an innocent young woman who trusted and believed in her and who may have felt betrayed in her last moments thinking about her. There ends up being tension between both sisters for sure, but that is after Lorelei is able to assimilate everything and understand it since it is strange that both eras can be synchronized in such a way, because reliving the trauma of the loss is not good for her, especially being a queen, remembering Sylvie and realizing that she was always her mother and that many things are beginning to make some sense in her life specially when she helped a young girl from Surtur's fire demons in their attack to New York long time ago. About Morgana and Lorelei, I'm glad you like the type of relationship they have from being enemies who have never seen each other before to best friends after going through a lot.

Yes, Sylvie would have those skills because in Broxton her mother was a famous chef with great experience and renown and as a child Sylvie liked to practice trying to reach the level of her mother, during her disappearance to the kingdom where she was sent by Amora at the end of the Illuminati series, Sylvie uses those abilities and manages to stop a war with just that while she was looking for a way to return home, becoming quite loved by many people, making her absence throughout this time justified by her own comfort. Volstagg would not hesitate for a second to consider her her favorite cook, which leads him to have problems with his wife and some of her many daughters. The cat passes through several hands until in the end she stays with Alvi. Sylvie would also have some carpentry skills inherited from her father knowing how to build things from scratch what means that Sylvie is more than just a pretty face.

What hurts Morgause the most is the fact that she is innocent and is equally blamed but she was going to do worse things with her sister's power and luckily she did not manage to train to master it hence she ended up being defeated. The problem is that both problems (Sylvie's parents death and Rise of Morgause) were put together and mixed in such a way that they seemed to fit together when the reality was different from having followed the investigation from the origin leading to the cat. Morgause had a terrible life in Camelot and her second chance at life was badly ruined by her rebirth.

It makes sense that Morgause avoids using Sylvie's body even if her amnesia benefits her for the most part. And like you said, Morgause would want Sylvie to remember her eventually. That's very shocking that even in ghost form, Morgause feels the bullet scar and must feel its heat for all her lost time.

It explains a lot if Amora first sees Sylvie and sees her mother in her and that becomes more apparent as more evidence piles up over time. Amora is not one who would go around helping just anyone so it would need to be someone she feels is truly special and worth it. Yes, I agree that for Lorelei it is not good to relive so much trauma, especially when a whole world depends on her. She must be clear-headed and not distracted. Yes, I really enjoy the Morgana/Lorelei relationship and to me it feels like one that you could craft a whole saga around which you basically have. As I said before, how so much of Lorelei's period of harmony can be attributed to Morgana.

Ah, I see, I didn't realize that Sylvie's mother herself was a chef. I can see it being a great help in Asgard for all those who can be comforted by food. I also figured that Volstagg's wife may not be a great fan of how much he values Sylvie's cooking. I like the idea that Alvi ends up more or less inheriting the cat. It feels like the most natural choice at the end. I also like that Sylvie didn't just inherit from her mother but also her father's carpentry skills. Although I wonder what Amora would feel to know her grandfather was a mortal carpenter who worked with his hands.

Yes, it definitely comes across to those from far away that Morgause is at fault and both issues were the result of her actions when the truth is more complicated and ultimately clears Morgause of blame even if it's too late. I can see how Morgause's life on Camelot was not improved by what she encounters in her rebirth and then being flung back in time as a revenge-obsessed, scarred ghost.

[whitecrown]

I've been asking myself that for many years. I don't understand why the adaptation shouldn't be as faithful as possible to the whole when it should be able to. I understand that the issue of superheroes goes directly to what is a blockbuster, and they cost an immense sum of money that is needed so that what are superpowers, localitations, that are difficult to see can be possible, something that is easier to see in an animated series than in a live-action series, I think that with One Piece on Netflix they have even tried to do With the author of the manga himself being part of it, there are failures and successes and difficult things to see regarding what we know but the final result is what matters in the end. I think The Boys is really good and they did a great work on 3 seasons, four soon.

I can see why something like Asgard would be very costly but we see the GOTG movies which also go to different planets and they're able to make it work. Also Eternals. I do think that something like Asgard would benefit more from an animated series and the ability to have serialized storytelling that would not have to worry about CGI budgets or actor budgets but also could showcase a vast variety of characters rather than just the handful that the movies center on.

[Charlie_1981]

6) Yes that makes sense that you saw enough resemblance between Lorelei and Red Sonja.

7) DC generally treats their female characters better which might be why they have more sisterly rivalries than Marvel does. Like you said, the Valkyrie/Amora rivalry has been more or less ignored for some time now so that leaves it open for Lorelei.

It explains a lot about Amora's psyche and frame of mind to me now knowing more about her backstory and how she grew up with all the losses in her life between her parents and having an idea that something dark and sinister was plaguing her family. Telling Alvi all this helps him understand her and what threats might be posed to their family.

I see, that's interesting that the variant Sylvie doesn't age. I can see why she'd be such a mystery to all of Asgard and how everyone would have a different idea about her. No one would think the same exact thing because she is so mysterious and unknown. I like that Sylvie's cat can more or less tell the difference though. I see, that explains why Loki is affected the way he is. And it's true that this inadvertently supports Morgause by getting rid of a threat.

10) I can feel general audiences already losing interest in the MCU with every new movie so Marvel really needs to come up with a plan fast. They seem to have an idea that they've messed up Thor since even Chris Hemsworth says he regrets the last movie now.

6) Yes, it is still something curious, just as in an intelligent way you do not see Peter Parker and Ben Reilly as the same, you can see that their faces are not the same even though the latter is a clone, I suppose that is why characters like Ben or Madelyne are so different from each other characters who look so similar. You can't make Lorelei exactly the same as other red-haired female characters because her hair color, even if it looks red or orange, is not even remotely the same or Morgana who looks like Betsy Braddock when drawn with purple hair though normally Morgana is more like magenta.

7) That's true, at Marvel it's about making the effort but it's harder to see those things except on rare occasions. Really resuming Amora's relationship with the Valkyries would be a good thing because she has not been involved in any case for a long time, not even with Jane Foster currently or with that new Valkyrie that appeared whose name I don't remember.

Yes, and it is easier to understand why Amora cannot be the mother that Alvi would like her to be because although she would like it to be different, it is not easy to be who she is and because she has many enemies who could take advantage of any moment of vulnerability and being the Enchantress does more to make him feel protected than being by his side like any mother, although she would never hesitate to help him when he needed it and because she understands his pain but needs him to understand hers, knowing about his grandfather is something good because it gives hope and because for her he was her inspiration to look for the best man to be her partner, a good man capable of protecting her and giving her what she needs.
Amora in the end will end up facing Morgause to avenge her father although in Broxton she did not do it at first, leaving everything in the hands of Sylvie and Morgana and things ending really badly.

Yes, it is as if it had happened minutes more than days, weeks or months, the Sylvie variant finds a door inside the time vortex after separating from the other Sylvie that when crossing it takes her many weeks ago inside Asgard, Lorelei was not queen, Thor was still on the throne helped by Sif, Amora was with Skurge, Loki was doing what he knew best by getting into trouble. Meanwhile, the original Sylvie Lushton was still lost in Asgard with a terrible sense of direction until she met for the first time an emerald warrior who had been running through the kingdoms for a few weeks and that even Sylvie had heard about and even wondered who she could be and that when she is in front of her, this mysterious woman, when she takes off her mask, reveals herself to be a variant of her, not as someone who came from the future and basically warned her that she has already been around Asgard too many times and that it is time to return home, which leads to her memory erasure and everything else (it already happens previously, the amnesia becomes worse as she is dragged into the past later) and a warning, from there this is something that would later be revealed to a lost Sigurd while investigating the disappearance of the Original Sylvie and the fact that Sylvie is a variant, she has no past or anything that ties her to life but she shares things with the original, not even her smell is similar which confuses the cat.

Loki is important especially for Thor who has to find a way to save him even without having any memory of the Frost giants or all his battles against them throughout his life, Lorelei has involuntarily made sure of that with her actions in Jotunheim.
Morgause creates a great fortress upon her arrival to the present, replacing much of what was the kingdom of the frost giants, waiting for her guests to show up.

10) Unfortunately, you are right, it is also something that I am noticing and it is general that everything has been happening since Endgame. And it is not surprising because they have really done things very badly, they promise you things and the rumors that are said do not come true later (especially because the Enchantress thing is something that fans have wanted since the first movie but Marvel turns deaf ears every time.

[Charlie_1981]

That's a good point that the Thor/Odin relationship is very one-sided and sorta demonstrates what the norm is in Asgard. And you're also right that despite Lorelei feeling hurt by her sister's secrecy, she still defends her to the end when Alvi has issues with her. It shows how strong that sisterly bond is when push comes to shove.
The Emerald Warrior must have a great design I'm sure. I'm curious if Morgause has any idea about her identity or if she's as equally clueless. Would be very interesting to see Valkyrie and Sif fight against the Emerald Warrior, even though Morgana is the one in the tournament facing them all.

It must have been so long since Camelot that it makes sense that the relationship between Morgana and Morgause is not as strong as it once was. Especially with Morgana bonding with so many in Asgard instead like Lorelei and Lorelei's daughters.

Good point about the Valkyrie and Fandral. I forgot about them and Fandral especially seems like he would not have issues with the same gender.

I agree with your take that Morgana may pretend she is using the situation to regain her lost power but in fact, she is very closely bonded to Lorelei at this point. It's interesting how in the history of Asgard and their latest and greatest ruler, much thanks must be given to a non-Asgardian in the form of Morgana because of how much she motivates Lorelei.

Yes, and it shows that a sister relationship still has hope that some of the bad blood between them will be resolved, even with secrets, when the two of them were together it was different, having Alvi and Lorelei's daughters, there are more members in the family which something has to change in the dynamic and also shows that Lorelei loves her sister more than anyone because of the blood they share but that does not prevent her from hiding her secrets if she knows that there is no benefit in knowing each other, preferring to explain it to another person, even if it is someone not very trustworthy like Morgana, even if she is her enemy, but it is more about Morgana than about Lorelei because she does not feel the hatred that Morgana can feel for what she did to her.

Yes, and it is logical to be confused because no one knows if she could be an adult woman, a young teenager or even a boy because of the way she dresses or even the braids make people think of a woman like Brunnhilde the original Valkyrie. Morgana participates even knowing that things will surely not turn out well but soon she has more confidence in herself and with the words of Lorelei and her daughters in her mind and she is motivated if the purpose of the tournament is to fight the queen as a grand prize, fighting as never before and showing an incredible skill with the sword of which her brother Arthur would be proud, in the end Morgana fights against the emerald warrior and manages to defeat her when she had everything lost but without knowing who she is at any time but with her own theories seeing traits that remind her of another person, Sif faces many Valkyries whom she manages to defeat, earning the greatest acclaim and respect for them and in the end when the emerald warrior disappears without being seen after her defeat (Sylvie's variant ends up crossing the path of the ice giants leading to an unintentional provocation that leads to what happens next), in the tournament, Sif and Morgana fight mainly to see who becomes the queen's greatest support, Morgana has been getting stronger to the point that each time she feels better about herself and understands why warriors and heroes are the way they are, even women, and how the adrenaline takes over them, achieving an incredible strength and will to advance until now unknown, Morgana and Lorelei's fight does not begin because Lorelei has achieved what that she wanted and so does Morgana but they make a promise about it.
Morgause may know about her through the time vortex, witnessing Sylvie's splitting into two people, but all that knowledge is lost when she inadvertently absorbs many of the unknown forces that populate there as if they were attracted directly to her.

Yes, besides the fact that Morgana loses her magic could have benefited her by getting rid of the evil that dominated her heart, leading her to be somewhat more benevolent than she should be, meaning that what her older sister did to her in Broxton, It was doing her a favor.

Yes and it's funny how it all starts, a benevolent Morgana, being cunning, smart, strategist and intimidating even without magic, manages in an emotional way to make a woman like Lorelei who could have gotten lost in her thoughts end up being motivated to be someone better by someone she could consider an enemy for whom she ends up feeling more affinity than with anyone for various reasons. Morgana does many things that she does because of promises that Amora swears she will fulfill, the only requirement that Morgana decides not to fulfill is to get closer to Lorelei, although Amora would never imagine that her little sister would become queen at some point and Morgana that she could find someone to call friend.