Batman: Caped Crusader

[James Cameron]

I don't think it's going to be any more explicit than the DCAU was, or My Adventures with Superman.

Doubtful.

"I'll warn you guys, it's definitely a lot different than [Batman: The Animated Series]," "It's very much a reconception of starting over. It's not PG-13, but it's definitely, it's a lot different. It's sort of like the show Bruce Timm always wanted to make, but that they wouldn't let him make."

Even in his stuff for kids, Bruce Timm is a horny guy. Brubaker is known for his gritty crime stuff chock full of gratuitous violence. This will absolutely be far more explicit than DCAU and MAWS.

[phonogram12]

I'm sure the 5 of us who remember her as a relevant character will really appreciate it*.

Yeah, who the hell was clamoring for her lol

[Frontier]

Doubtful.

Even in his stuff for kids, Bruce Timm is a horny guy. Brubaker is known for his gritty crime stuff chock full of gratuitous violence. This will absolutely be far more explicit than DCAU and MAWS.

I think they'll probably toe the line but Brubaker also said that it's not going to be something that families can't watch and the action will just be more serious and intense than it was in B:TAS.

This was meant to air on the same programming block as MAWS so I don't think it will go far beyond what was in that show.

Yeah, who the hell was clamoring for her lol

Definitely not Batwoman fans!

Though seriously though, they'd been wanting to do an episode with her in B:TAS but weren't allowed because of Standards and Practice.

[exile001]

I think they'll probably toe the line but Brubaker also said that it's not going to be something that families can't watch and the action will just be more serious and intense than it was in B:TAS.

This is good.

One of the (many) inspired moves of TAS was to keep the action grounded and relatively slow for the most part, which both allowed it to feel impactful when something violent did happen but also hid the limitations and budget of hand animation.

Now that it's mostly done on computers the action can be more fluid and visceral (without needing to be gratuitous). The Creed movies are PG-13, so there's plenty of room to manoeuvre while still staying in a most audiences space.

[godisawesome]

I'm sure the 5 of us who remember her as a relevant character will really appreciate it*.

Now I'm concerned it's going to be creepily sexual, something the TAS guys have a little habit of.

*seriously, though, one of my earliest back issues was her last pre-Crisis appearance and it left a hell of an impression on me! Stabbed and flying into a nightmarish storm of literal blood as people fought for her very life was epic as hell!

I'm convinced about 65% of Moench's inspiration and drive behind creating her was going "...Oh my God... Busty Goth Girls are hot! How did I not see it before!?!" earlier than most people , and the rest was a mix of his love for grindhouse film-esque stories and Gothic fiction. I think she sort of failed to stick around that much afterwards once people caught up on fashion and beauty standards, and the vampirism thing that has become her thing is the result of her not having much else originally.

Nocturna may provide some answers to how adult or kid-friendly the show might be via one of her vampiric parallels, though.

Anyone remember that DVD movie Batman Vs Dracula from The Batman cartoon? I believe it was considered a hair too nasty for network television, but still got seen as a largely kif-friendly movie. that maybe what they're aiming for here; something like a 1980s PG.

[exile001]

I'm convinced about 65% of Moench's inspiration and drive behind creating her was going "...Oh my God... Busty Goth Girls are hot! How did I not see it before!?!" earlier than most people

Dude catches a Siouxie video on MTV and is like "I hope this doesn't awaken anything in me." Immediately creates Nocturna. Lol.

[godisawesome]

Dude catches a Siouxie video on MTV and is like "I hope this doesn't awaken anything in me." Immediately creates Nocturna. Lol.

Yup - because it’s not like Moench was doing much else with her as a character, even if his conviction that “Stick this curvy pale lady in cleavage-baring black outfits and speak of dark nights and secret feelings, then have the dudes around her act accordingly” was an accurate assessment of what would make Bronze Age comic readers like it.

But I’ve tried reading that arc, and her looks are much more the asset that she brings to the story rather than her “abilities” or lack thereof, and she mostly reads like another Bronze Age Batman Love Interest, akin to being a Dark Cherry-flavored Silver St. Cloud (who followed a similar “stick the curvy platinum blonde in lingerie or a towel” line of thinking) or a spicier version of Vicki Vale’s return, when Talia and Catwoman emerged as the “winners” of that era because they had significantly more going on. Nocturna’s unique look and somewhat out-of-place “code name” give her an edge over Vicki, as somewhat does the Night Killer or whatever his name is, but she doens’t have Gerry Conway working a bit harder on the character, and Talia still has Ra’s and Catwoman is Catwoman.

[Frontier]

Yup - because it’s not like Moench was doing much else with her as a character, even if his conviction that “Stick this curvy pale lady in cleavage-baring black outfits and speak of dark nights and secret feelings, then have the dudes around her act accordingly” was an accurate assessment of what would make Bronze Age comic readers like it.

But I’ve tried reading that arc, and her looks are much more the asset that she brings to the story rather than her “abilities” or lack thereof, and she mostly reads like another Bronze Age Batman Love Interest, akin to being a Dark Cherry-flavored Silver St. Cloud (who followed a similar “stick the curvy platinum blonde in lingerie or a towel” line of thinking) or a spicier version of Vicki Vale’s return, when Talia and Catwoman emerged as the “winners” of that era because they had significantly more going on. Nocturna’s unique look and somewhat out-of-place “code name” give her an edge over Vicki, as somewhat does the Night Killer or whatever his name is, but she doens’t have Gerry Conway working a bit harder on the character, and Talia still has Ra’s and Catwoman is Catwoman.

Hey, don't be dissing Silver St. Cloud .

[GamerSlyRatchet]

According to one of the executive producers, the show may premiere "later this year", whatever that entails.

I'm convinced about 65% of Moench's inspiration and drive behind creating her was going "...Oh my God... Busty Goth Girls are hot! How did I not see it before!?!" earlier than most people , and the rest was a mix of his love for grindhouse film-esque stories and Gothic fiction. I think she sort of failed to stick around that much afterwards once people caught up on fashion and beauty standards, and the vampirism thing that has become her thing is the result of her not having much else originally.

Nocturna may provide some answers to how adult or kid-friendly the show might be via one of her vampiric parallels, though.

Nocturna as a vampire is interesting because that only started from the B:TAS rejected pitch and then the comics and other media just kind of adapted it. It was probably Timm's attempt to give her something to stand out from those love interests or, say, Catwoman. And I don't see a Jason Todd in this series for her to try to adopt.

[Frontier]

According to one of the executive producers, the show may premiere "later this year", whatever that entails.

Nocturna as a vampire is interesting because that only started from the B:TAS rejected pitch and then the comics and other media just kind of adapted it. It was probably Timm's attempt to give her something to stand out from those love interests or, say, Catwoman. And I don't see a Jason Todd in this series for her to try to adopt.

I am kind of curious if they'll do Robin or at least one Bat-sidekick in season 2.

[exile001]

I am kind of curious if they'll do Robin or at least one Bat-sidekick in season 2.

God, I hope not.

I'm all in for a solo Batman being a detective and carefully working cases. Robin kind of immediately shifts the focus to more superhero-y vibe.

Maybe if they use him like in seasons 1-2 of TAS, so he's not always around and when he is it makes a difference and adds something.

[Frontier]

God, I hope not.

I'm all in for a solo Batman being a detective and carefully working cases. Robin kind of immediately shifts the focus to more superhero-y vibe.

Maybe if they use him like in seasons 1-2 of TAS, so he's not always around and when he is it makes a difference and adds something.

I get it if they don't think Robin fits the vibe and tone they're going for, just that he and what he represents is a natural extension of the Batman story.

[exile001]

I get it if they don't think Robin fits the vibe and tone they're going for, just that he and what he represents is a natural extension of the Batman story.

To a point, but not for every story. I appreciate that sounds disingenuous as movie/TV Batman seems to be Robin-less as often as not. He just doesn't fit my hopes for what this should be.

The Dark Knight trilogy was better for not having Robin (or at least a very unique take on him) as he simply wouldn't have worked there. I do believe he could work in Matt Reeves' The Batman series if he chooses that route.

I'd love to see more Bat-Family in movies and TV, as long as a compelling story can be told and the characters can be balanced. Azrael is all kinds of telegenic and I need that flaming sword on the big screen one day! Also, a not terrible Dick Grayson would be nice.

I'd complain about DC/WB being outdated in failing to capitalise on the Bat-characters that aren't Batman, Robin (Dick) and Batgirl (Babs), but that's flogging a horse so dead I'm miles underground and a million miles in the future flogging the one remaining molecule of soil that retains the slightest part of anything associated with the long forgotten horse.

[Frontier]

To a point, but not for every story. I appreciate that sounds disingenuous as movie/TV Batman seems to be Robin-less as often as not. He just doesn't fit my hopes for what this should be.

The Dark Knight trilogy was better for not having Robin (or at least a very unique take on him) as he simply wouldn't have worked there. I do believe he could work in Matt Reeves' The Batman series if he chooses that route.

I'd love to see more Bat-Family in movies and TV, as long as a compelling story can be told and the characters can be balanced. Azrael is all kinds of telegenic and I need that flaming sword on the big screen one day! Also, a not terrible Dick Grayson would be nice.

I'd complain about DC/WB being outdated in failing to capitalise on the Bat-characters that aren't Batman, Robin (Dick) and Batgirl (Babs), but that's flogging a horse so dead I'm miles underground and a million miles in the future flogging the one remaining molecule of soil that retains the slightest part of anything associated with the long forgotten horse.

I guess to me this seems like a Golden Age-inspired take on Batman and Robin was part of Golden Age Batman.

[godisawesome]

To a point, but not for every story. I appreciate that sounds disingenuous as movie/TV Batman seems to be Robin-less as often as not. He just doesn't fit my hopes for what this should be.

The Dark Knight trilogy was better for not having Robin (or at least a very unique take on him) as he simply wouldn't have worked there. I do believe he could work in Matt Reeves' The Batman series if he chooses that route.

I'd love to see more Bat-Family in movies and TV, as long as a compelling story can be told and the characters can be balanced. Azrael is all kinds of telegenic and I need that flaming sword on the big screen one day! Also, a not terrible Dick Grayson would be nice.

I'd complain about DC/WB being outdated in failing to capitalise on the Bat-characters that aren't Batman, Robin (Dick) and Batgirl (Babs), but that's flogging a horse so dead I'm miles underground and a million miles in the future flogging the one remaining molecule of soil that retains the slightest part of anything associated with the long forgotten horse.

I guess to me this seems like a Golden Age-inspired take on Batman and Robin was part of Golden Age Batman.

The Golden Age is fascinating because it was so early into comics and changed so much - it’s the genesis of both the darkest Batman stories and the goofiest, since you can go from Batman lighting up mutated monster men with his plane’s machine gun to Batman having to dress in rainbow colors or some nonsense.

The perception, I believe, is that Robin appeared in the middle of the transition from the darkness to the goofiness, and most of his Golden Age stories with Batman are from the goofier part - which is not what people are predicting for this show.

...on the other hand, we’re doing a freakin’ vampire Nocturna. Yes, vampires are very early Golden Age Batman (looking at you, the Monk), but they’re also very much not street level, even when put on the street.

Personally, I think that while the “Hardcore Batman can’t have a sidekick!” misconception is likely to keep the Batfamily out fo the story, I also think that some of the Batfamily members could *easily* fit a darker, grittier but still “all ages (remember, the PG Indiana Jones movie has Nazis melting onscreen)” show better than others.

Azrael (both of them), Damian, Cassandra Cain have grim enough origins to pretty much get immediately adapted for such a show, while the “mood” of the Bertinelli Huntress and Jason Todd seems more immediately deployable for the purpose of “Angst! Is! Better!”

Of course, I remember Beware the Batman tried doing it own thing with Alfred and Karan, which was interesting, if inconsistent.