WTF would the icons of DC look like if started today?

[The Darknight Detective]

I don't know... the MCU seems to be operating fairly well without too many secret identities. Almost defiantly so.

Can you do it in a comic? Sure, if you write it in a way that it would work within that universe. But in the real world, who would actually be doing this? If you were a street-level superhero, you would unquestionably need one. Many of the super-powered ones would have one, too.

And I'm not saying they're *impossible*, it's just that they're getting reallllly hard to maintain in the modern age. I mean sure, if you dress up in a costume and beat up some criminals, and are super-careful, you probably won't get found out. But if you start messing around with powerful people or the government, chances are you're gonna start leaving your DNA around, or get caught on some satellites leaving your apartment or... let's just say it's not tenable in the long run.

Now, if you've got powers, you can keep the secret a lot longer. The Flashes have a HUGE advantage here, as they can zip away from their secret identities without being noticed by cameras. As do characters who shrink or turn invisible and whatnot. But regular guys n gals? If they get on the government's radar, it's just a matter of time. Unless, of course, they're a billionaire - Bruce Wayne probably drops at least ten million bucks a year keeping the hounds at bay.

I agree it would be very difficult and it would shape real-world superheroes differently than it does in a comic book.

[The Darknight Detective]

Batman is up there with Spider-Man as the world’s most popular superhero, so I don’t think much would need to change.

The issue of him running around with his young “ward” who was dressed in speedos and pixie boots had raised eyebrows for decades but now that Robin is literally his son and has a badass attitude, that’s pretty much killed all the jokes people once made about the dynamic duo.

So, the only thing I can imagine being different if Batman were created today is that Alfred probably wouldn’t be his butler since that’s a bit antiquated. He’s ex-military so maybe Alfred would be made the family bodyguard or something. He would also feel guilty for failing to stop the Wayne’s murder, so maybe that’s why he takes it upon himself to look after and train Bruce.

Agree about Alfred. He definitely wouldn't be a butler if created today and probably shouldn't be one anymore now, too.

[skyvolt2000]

I don't know... the MCU seems to be operating fairly well without too many secret identities. Almost defiantly so.

In comics most folks know good enough to NOT mess with someone or their family.

And even if you had secret IDs-lets take the real world and its politics into play.

Lets use Static and he pops up-how fast does a Fox News paint him as a threat and next thing we know we got random black boys being "accidently" shot.

Now apply that to Bunker or Cassandra Cain.

Someone or some Alt right group would use them as a green light to attack POC.

It's the main reason Icon didn't do anything for 200 years after he arrived on Earth.

Let Wonder Woman show up from an Island of women-the line starts to the left of folks trying to destroy it. Same with Atlantis. Same with the islands that Nubai and Tyroc come from.

Especially if they were the first ones before an Ollie or Bruce or Hal shows up.

[Agent Z]

I don't know that WW would change much. Marston's design is still very much way ahead of us. Even now, people deny & despise of the union of Femininity and Dominant Force. More, Feminism is outright mischaracterized and vilified. Among a certain segment of fandom, the discussion of strength for female characters seems limited to x is strong enough to take y's d!@# but that is the end of it. Anything that disrupts the rape fantast thing is still despised. More, it appears that the pther components of the design are eithet outright feared as Morrison showed in Final Crisis or outright rejected (War is good and can only be good! I like to do it!!!).

So I think his design still executes the same and people would still be trying to resist it.

You're right about certain people's attitudes towards feminism and capable female characters. However, there is a lot about Marston's stories that are seen as objectifying women or putting them in a box.

[JackDaw]

On a similar thread years ago some one suggested an answer for Superman that resonated with me.

Effectively the suggestion was that the biggest change would be to Superman's circle of friends, to decrease the number of non powered humans and increase the the number of other super heroes.

It went something like this "His girlfriend would be Wonder Woman, not Lois. His best friend would be Batman not Jimmy. His boss would be Alan Scott not Perry..."

[CPSparkles]

In comics most folks know good enough to NOT mess with someone or their family.

And even if you had secret IDs-lets take the real world and its politics into play.

Lets use Static and he pops up-how fast does a Fox News paint him as a threat and next thing we know we got random black boys being "accidently" shot.

Now apply that to Bunker or Cassandra Cain.

Someone or some Alt right group would use them as a green light to attack POC.

It's the main reason Icon didn't do anything for 200 years after he arrived on Earth.

Let Wonder Woman show up from an Island of women-the line starts to the left of folks trying to destroy it. Same with Atlantis. Same with the islands that Nubai and Tyroc come from.

Especially if they were the first ones before an Ollie or Bruce or Hal shows up.

Lets not take Static for example.
Let's take one of the most well known real life vigilante crime fighter Phoenix Jones for example.

You just have the worst view of humans Skyvolt.

[John Venus]

Superman's trunks were inspired circus strong men of the time. I've read speculation that the cape was meant to evoke a sense of royalty.

I can see a modern Superman wearing sleeveless undershirts since that's whats mainly worn by men who want to show off their strength. Then in lieu of a cape he wears a jacket with epaulettes on it. Sneakers instead of boots.

Batman might not even have a secret identity and every one knows it's Bruce Wayne dressed up as Batman. Or maybe Bruce is a PI akin to Sherlock Holmes and Batman is this mysterious stalker who shows up to handle the fighting side. Sometimes Alfred dresses up as Batman so Bruce Wayne can ward off suspicion that he's Batman.

Wonder Woman might not have her American themed costume. Her source of power will likely be simplified to an earth diety like Gaea or the OG Marston idea that Diana's power originates from the belief she has in herself and she could teach other women to tap into this power. Maybe she would lean more towards sci fi than regular WW. I can see WW this version of WW being made non binary to further accentuate the fact that she sees our gender politics in 3rd person pov.

[John Venus]

Agree about Alfred. He definitely wouldn't be a butler if created today and probably shouldn't be one anymore now, too.

Bodyguard. Like in Earth One, Beware the Batman and the Snyder-verse.

But it raises the question of where he was during the Wayne murder. You could say he took the night off and regretted in forever or maybe spin some larger conspiracy but I don't know. I like the humility in Alfred that he has a bad ass history but chooses to be a butler anyway. That his calm, collected demeanor is in contrast to Bruce who is dark and driven.

[bat39]

Its almost impossible to tell because these characters have had such a profound impact on pop-culture that the world would be a very different place today had they not been created during WW2.

One thing worth pondering - the superhero genre was created during WW2 and much of our notion of superheroes has been shaped by the post-1945 liberal world order. The morality of superheroes, and their function, in many ways is reflective of this post-war world, and particularly an idealised perspective of America's role in it. So the superheroes are all-powerful, but they're also benevolent and want to do right by everyone, including criminals (the "no kill rule" and at least notional desire to reform the villains). Their idea of justice is centered around upholding law and order and preserving the status quo, while also improving upon it by tackling corruption and inefficiencies in the justice/law enforcement systems. They espouse 'universal' ideals of truth and justice.

But we're living in an era now where that liberal world order seems to be falling apart, rejected by both the left and the right. There no longer seems to be any universal concept of 'right' or 'wrong', just whatever needs to be done to safeguard yourself, your families/communities, and your interests. "Live and let live" is increasingly giving way to a preference for eliminating threats, and 'law and order' is seen as something antithetical to what either 'side' perceives as 'true justice'.

Would an era such as ours actually give birth to superheroes in the 'classic' and 'traditional' sense?

Take Batman for instance. If he were to be created today, depending on his creators' political persuation, he would either be a radical left-winger who uses violent means to target and eliminate the police, businesses, politicians or anyone and anything associated with 'bourgeouis' values, or a far-right fascist who turns Gotham into a police state and mercilessly crushes all 'undesirable' elements perceived to cause crime and corruption.

Superman at Siegal/Shuster power levels would be the same as the Batman I described above, and with his full power-set, would likely established a benevolent dictatorship (again, the contours of which would depend on his creators' political persuation). I can see Superman being a quasi-religious mass leader, with millions of people following him and ready to wreck havoc in his name in an effort to build a 'perfect world'.

Wonder Woman? Again, depending on her creators' perspectives, she can either be an ambassador from a perfect utopia who seeks to take over Man's World and build a new establishment in Themyscera's image, or the ultimate disaffected radical who seeks to dismantle the power structures of Man's World and lead a bloody, global feminist revolution.

To sum up, I think superheroes created in 2024 are less likely to be characters in a movie like Captain America: Civil War and more likely to be characters in a movie like Alex Garland's Civil War...

[Tomkatie]

How are we playing this?

Because without Superman, superheroes as we know them would not be a thing. So if we're living in today's world where superheroes did not exist and have never existed, I truly don't know how that archetype would even come to be. Weapon-toting crime-fighting noir vigilantes are a hard sell in the modern climate, space opera sci-fi heroes have a limited appeal, and anything in between is dependent on the backing franchise. Not to mention comics aren't a growing medium.

Do we think the icons of DC or even DC itself could be created today?

[Stanlos]

How are we playing this?

Because without Superman, superheroes as we know them would not be a thing. So if we're living in today's world where superheroes did not exist and have never existed, I truly don't know how that archetype would even come to be. Weapon-toting crime-fighting noir vigilantes are a hard sell in the modern climate, space opera sci-fi heroes have a limited appeal, and anything in between is dependent on the backing franchise. Not to mention comics aren't a growing medium.

Do we think the icons of DC or even DC itself could be created today?

That is essentially the question. I was wondering how the characters would be different if their deals were executed today rather than WWII era.

The question came to me as I was pondering why the Superman and WW franchises seem to have been scrubbed of their overt Americanisms. Then I saw this weird vid from the state of Washington where a lady decries being a democracy. In present day America.

It made me wonder wtf is going on with people in America. Then it made me wonder what the DC icons, many of whom were created with overt patriotic elements, would look like if created today. In an America that seems to be in the midst of a manufactured identity crisis.

How would Supreme be different? Would he still be tied to the immigrant story mythos of America? If not, what would he be like? Would any of his elements be different?

How would WW be different? In the OG stuff, Hippolyte and the Amazons identified America as the moral leader in the conflict and modeled the outfit to show allegiance to justice etc. Would today's America viewed by an outsider be seen in the same way? How would this change her?

Blah blah.

My head exploded trying to make sense of much of the stories in the news digest so I started wondering about DC characters.

[Tomkatie]

That is essentially the question. I was wondering how the characters would be different if their deals were executed today rather than WWII era.

The question came to me as I was pondering why the Superman and WW franchises seem to have been scrubbed of their overt Americanisms. Then I saw this weird vid from the state of Washington where a lady decries being a democracy. In present day America.

It made me wonder wtf is going on with people in America. Then it made me wonder what the DC icons, many of whom were created with overt patriotic elements, would look like if created today. In an America that seems to be in the midst of a manufactured identity crisis.

How would Supreme be different? Would he still be tied to the immigrant story mythos of America? If not, what would he be like? Would any of his elements be different?

How would WW be different? In the OG stuff, Hippolyte and the Amazons identified America as the moral leader in the conflict and modeled the outfit to show allegiance to justice etc. Would today's America viewed by an outsider be seen in the same way? How would this change her?

Blah blah.

My head exploded trying to make sense of much of the stories in the news digest so I started wondering about DC characters.

Well the original superhero was explicitly a power fantasy by its creators in the 1930s. Since then it has grown and taken shape as a genre of its own, but it very much started as a "what if one had unlimited power to change things", and even that was diluted to fit the comic format they were working with. If conceived in a potentially comic-less environment today, I doubt "what if one had the power to change things" would be limited to a man leaping a tall building or outracing a train, and I don't think it would be anything remotely close to the superhero or action hero we see today.

What would that look like? Heck I have no clue

[The Darknight Detective]

Superman's trunks were inspired circus strong men of the time. I've read speculation that the cape was meant to evoke a sense of royalty.

I can see a modern Superman wearing sleeveless undershirts since that's whats mainly worn by men who want to show off their strength. Then in lieu of a cape he wears a jacket with epaulettes on it. Sneakers instead of boots.

Nobody would be wearing the trunks today (fine by me, since I think they should be gone now anyway) and probably the capes, too (though I'm okay with the latter for the icons).

[The Darknight Detective]

Bodyguard. Like in Earth One, Beware the Batman and the Snyder-verse.

But it raises the question of where he was during the Wayne murder. You could say he took the night off and regretted in forever or maybe spin some larger conspiracy but I don't know. I like the humility in Alfred that he has a bad ass history but chooses to be a butler anyway. That his calm, collected demeanor is in contrast to Bruce who is dark and driven.

Alfred should come on board right after the murders to protect Bruce. Maybe make him a family friend of the Waynes so there is an earlier connection.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Green Lantern might be tied to ecology instead of Aliens. He'd speak for the Green like Earth 2 and Just Imagine.

Flash wouldnt change much.

Superman and Batman might look like this-
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