X-Men '97 Episode 8 - Tolerance is Extinction Part 1 *spoilers*

[Nox Noctes]

Gambit will be back. I'd bet money on it.

I hope you're right. There weren't any breadcrumbs in this episode that I could see. I'm still hoping for an Apocalypse/Horsemen cliffhanger at the end of the season at the very least.

As for this episode, there wasn't much for Rogue fans, but I did like the Wolverine & Nightcrawler fighting the Prime Sentinels scene. I also appreciated how they're promoting the sibling relationship between Kurt and Rogue.

So, is Val Mystique or not? It was the perfect moment for a reveal, but it didn't happen.

[NK1988]

This WAS an amazing episode but I wanna highlight what I don't want to happen next.

We have a three-way war: Magneto vs. Xavier vs. Bastion. That part is fine. I just don't want all the X-Men to rush to Xavier like nothing has happened. A LOT has happened. I still want to see some ideological splits with Rogue for certain but maybe others like Scott joining Magneto. This not only is a lot more interesting the same old "X-Men vs. Magneto" we've seen, it has a lot more drama to it as we've never seen the good guys fight each other in this verse. What's more, the defectors are obviously gonna be off the team, at least for a while, which allows for new X-Men for the next season.

[Jackraow21]

My predictions for the final two episodes?

- We get a Fatal Attractions adaptation, complete with Logan getting the adamantium stripped from him as that was the real "holy ****" moment of the 90s... aside from AoA which was already done in the old Animated Series. I also think Logan will get a new costume, possibly his brown/tan one.

- Gambit will return somehow, possibly as a Horseman teasing Apocalypse for next Season.

- Cable gets an X-men suit which he actually wears (as I know we've seen Scott throw him one in that teaser trailer for the final three episodes) and maybe pulls an X-Cutioner's Song finale but with Bastion instead of Stryfe, meaning his father has to hit the trigger and set off the temporal vortex that sucks them both into it, apparently "killing" them both (though Cable will be back down the line at some point in Season 2).

- Xavier mindwipes Magneto, setting up Onslaught for next season too.

[PyroFN]

Yeah Gambit's death seems to be lacking in gravitas as the episodes continues to drop. At first it felt big and like a major moment. Now it feels less so. That wild sentinel feels like a throwaway miniboss before the plot really starts. Maybe we get a statue of him on Genosha in episode 10. Some crying, mostly Rogue, and then we end the episode with his grave being open or in the process of being digged up. Sigh... I really hope not.

I just feels that for everything the show gets right it messes other stuff up. LifeDeath, seemed like an obvious win but the whole plot just felt forgetable. It gave us Ororo's new costume and more confidence, but it did so in a rather boring way.

Gambit and Rogue was the true pairing according to Beau before the show and when reading fans comments it seems most felt the same way. So they kill of Gambit and Rogue gets a reason to go... rogue. Yet Gambit's death sort of disapears in the noice and fans are left hoping he will be ressurected, but said resurecction seems to happen earliest in season two(if it happens at all). Leaving this season a real loss for Gambit fans. He had episode 5 andsome small parts in episode 1. I still consider episode 1 the best in terms of focus on characters.

Instead we spend a lot of time with Scott and Jean. Like a lot. Which is great for their fans but for me who consider myself somewhere between neutral and positive to them in this show it feels noticeable. It feels like Beau made a conscious effort to focus on them when he could have done other stuff with other characters.

Beast gets to meet Trish and it turns out she was so anit-mutants she allowed herself to be turned into a prime sentinel. Unless they are abducting people for the process, which of course they don't have to. She was just a random reporter who approached the X-men. She was nothing before she was turned. Beast also doesnt' see this coming at all and gets knocked out.

At least we got some sweet Logan&Kurt scenes. Highlight of the episode for me.

Kurt's scene with Jean felt too much and too soon. I get that it's his role but it feels like a big sign "Newcomer to the team! Must be established!".

I am perfectly willing to be the only one in this camp but: It was interesting that Cable loved Maddie and didn't really connect with Jean. It was fresh. I liked that dynamic.

Bishop is still lost in the timstream, future most likely. He left in episode 3 I think.

Rogue was in a coma so others could have teh spotlight and we wouldn't learn what she stole from Gyrichs mind. Rogue is still one of my favorites but I haven't really loved what they have done with her so far. She should be the one I connect with but she isn't allowed a quiet moment to really show us how she feels. A moment for us to connect with her. I didnt' get that in episode 7, happy if others feel differently.

I really thought Magneot was being brainwashed. Instead it seems it all was a ploy to drive him to do somethign major and reckless like he did with his worldwide EMP.

There is so much to like about this show. The ambitious scope, the overarching plots, the serious tone, the clever writing. I think it captures the mutant metaphor wonderfully. I just tune in and the episodes seems to miss what to focus on, lingering to long on some plots and staying not enough time with others. For instance I liked the Roberto scene with his mother and what they were going for. It just bored me in execution.

I think a lot of what you said makes sense and I agree with some of it.

Bishop and Gambit got the short end of the stick, though I would argue Gambit at least went out on a high note and left his impact. No one is ever gonna forget his character and I always think the best way around resurrection feeling cheap in a medium is if the fans yearn to bring them back. I say this as a Jean fan. It works and it is deserved if they can make a big enough impact and sudden enough to where the fans want more.

Bishop, on the other hand, could have been handled better, but if no one has anything for Bishop beyond what they already did with him, then by all means, let him be until someone else picks him up or they need him again.

I do feel differently and I don’t think your style and mine meld at all in that, as a brief heads up before reading. If Rogue were actually doing something questionable or acting in way she shouldn’t in the show, I would agree a moment for her to explain herself is warranted. But we literally went with her on her journey to losing the men she loved, heard every conversation she had with them, and saw exactly what her entire goal was. It does not take a genius to figure out what is going through her head and it does not need to be spelled out why losing the man she loves is driving her to do everything recklessly.

If we wanted a Rogue plot with more complexity, I would probably say something more complex should have happened. Like, Rogue creating her own Brotherhood of Mutants. Joining the Hellfire Club. Joining the Avengers. Something she would not do in-character, only for her to explain to us why she would think it was a good idea.

“There Avengers members that have the necessary technology and powersets to find who I am looking for. All it would need is a touch to give me what I want. I am sorry, but it was never personal against ya’ll. Ya’ll just wouldn’t understand.”

“I made my own Brotherhood because we can’t afford to let them do what they just did again. I know Magnus better than most besides Xavier himself. I heard the fears in his head and I waved them off as merely his issues he had to deal with, not seeing the reality.”

“The Hellfire Club is an elite organization bent on manipulating the rulers and rich. They have all the connections I need to find what I want. And I know my best bargaining chip is my powers. I give my services, they give me Gyrich, Trask, and every low-life who thinks they can pull that stunt again.”

Those type of scenarios are the kind I would see a need for Rogue to explain her motivation. But not this.

[Gripstir]

There is so much to like about this show. The ambitious scope, the overarching plots, the serious tone, the clever writing. I think it captures the mutant metaphor wonderfully. I just tune in and the episodes seems to miss what to focus on, lingering to long on some plots and staying not enough time with others. For instance I liked the Roberto scene with his mother and what they were going for. It just bored me in execution.

Yeah you said it. Good scope, worldbuilding, attention to detail and made by fans even though Kevin Feige refused to hire fans before. Just a lot of choices in story are the opposite of what I'm personally craving. I also think knowing Marvels intention of rebooting xmen to siphon nostalgia because they can't make a good ñew show sours me on this show

[Gripstir]

Well, this is the most disagreeable take I can see. I don’t think the intent is avoiding complex politics. I think this is simply you trying to come up for a reason to validate why they shouldn’t use a plot concept you don’t like.

I say if you don’t like enemy robot concepts, then that is completely fine. But we can’t say the show is avoiding complex politics when it is the literal base of what they are building the entire show on.

I didn't think the politics is that complex, that's my issue. I actually think it lacks a lot of thought beyond Beau pressing his own personal prejudices. I think the robots remind me of original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles where they ,are the foot robots cause censors wouldn't let the mutants attack humans. But this isn't a kids show. I know part of it is I'm a but more mature than I was when I saw xmen for the first time but yeaha lot of the politics seems very propagandist, not complex. Again I know part of it is being more grown up amd experiencing a lot of the world leaves me with different views. I also know I should probably turn my brain off to watch the show, I just can't

[Malachi]

I do feel differently and I don’t think your style and mine meld at all in that, as a brief heads up before reading. If Rogue were actually doing something questionable or acting in way she shouldn’t in the show, I would agree a moment for her to explain herself is warranted. But we literally went with her on her journey to losing the men she loved, heard every conversation she had with them, and saw exactly what her entire goal was. It does not take a genius to figure out what is going through her head and it does not need to be spelled out why losing the man she loves is driving her to do everything recklessly.

Bolded: Which is perfectly fine.
In short we all got what she was feeling, or we at least believed we knew what she was feeling, but I never felt it. Maybe it was the anger and rage, maybe it was because she didn't really express it beyond her fists. That way of telling it just didnt' make me feel much. It lacked carthasis. That lack of gravitas and carthasis are for me the biggest signs that Gambit is coming back, because it just feels half done.
Maybe Rogue meeting Magneto will give us a more poignant moment where she gets to express her grief. At least for me.

[toddcam]

It's also why I believe they are pushing Sinister, he's not a villain.

Sinister's not a villain? Or are you referring to someone else?

[MentalManipulator]

What another great episode. The action! The reveals! The feels! The Kurt and Jean dialogue brought me to tears. Nightcrawler keeps being the heart of the series.

His and Logan’s fight at the mansion, the summers sequence and Magneto’s feats were all amazing.

I loved the cameos. Curious if this means we’ll meet Rachel at some point.

My only gripe is the absence of Storm. Too many episodes without the Goddess for my taste.

[Gripstir]

This WAS an amazing episode but I wanna highlight what I don't want to happen next.

We have a three-way war: Magneto vs. Xavier vs. Bastion. That part is fine. I just don't want all the X-Men to rush to Xavier like nothing has happened. A LOT has happened. I still want to see some ideological splits with Rogue for certain but maybe others like Scott joining Magneto. This not only is a lot more interesting the same old "X-Men vs. Magneto" we've seen, it has a lot more drama to it as we've never seen the good guys fight each other in this verse. What's more, the defectors are obviously gonna be off the team, at least for a while, which allows for new X-Men for the next season.

You know I was hearing the rage from people about how the show removed the mutants of color from the first season but now I'm thinking the reason they did it was to move Sunspot Bishop and maybe a few others as the new team while the old team goes more with Nagneto for awhile

[NK1988]

Also it's only a few people on reddit but I was discussing how our heroes are ready to go to town on Prime Sentinels who are essentially innocent humans, and some folks got all weird and self-righteous. "They aren't innocent!" There's no reason to trust Bastion that they were all members of hate groups. Do we really think his old mom joined an anti-mutant chat room on AOL?

Even if they did, he doesn't lie about how he concealed the essential details from them. They didn't volunteer for anything, not if volunteering requires consent of what you're volunteering for.

Also not one of our heroes knows about any of this anyway. All they know is Beast's girlfriend is trying to kill them now an they have no idea why but Logan is still making jokes and ready to cut her to pieces.

[IllusiveGorn]

Sinister's not a villain?

Well, it seems he was not a nazi in this continuity. And if he invented the T-O virus (although this moment is unclear), then he provided the future utopia for humanity.

[Antarctic]

So, is Val Mystique or not? It was the perfect moment for a reveal, but it didn't happen.

Bastion is grabbing a supressor collar when he chained her... I am not sold she is not Mystique or other mutant.

[Sparta]

My predictions for the final two episodes?

- We get a Fatal Attractions adaptation, complete with Logan getting the adamantium stripped from him as that was the real "holy ****" moment of the 90s... aside from AoA which was already done in the old Animated Series. I also think Logan will get a new costume, possibly his brown/tan one.

- Gambit will return somehow, possibly as a Horseman teasing Apocalypse for next Season.

- Cable gets an X-men suit which he actually wears (as I know we've seen Scott throw him one in that teaser trailer for the final three episodes) and maybe pulls an X-Cutioner's Song finale but with Bastion instead of Stryfe, meaning his father has to hit the trigger and set off the temporal vortex that sucks them both into it, apparently "killing" them both (though Cable will be back down the line at some point in Season 2).

- Xavier mindwipes Magneto, setting up Onslaught for next season too.

Yeah, I think this is going to happen. Beau just declared his love for Onslaught, and it feels like we'll be seeing that in s2.

[Havok83]

Also it's only a few people on reddit but I was discussing how our heroes are ready to go to town on Prime Sentinels who are essentially innocent humans, and some folks got all weird and self-righteous. "They aren't innocent!" There's no reason to trust Bastion that they were all members of hate groups. Do we really think his old mom joined an anti-mutant chat room on AOL?

Even if they did, he doesn't lie about how he concealed the essential details from them. They didn't volunteer for anything, not if volunteering requires consent of what you're volunteering for.

Also not one of our heroes knows about any of this anyway. All they know is Beast's girlfriend is trying to kill them now an they have no idea why but Logan is still making jokes and ready to cut her to pieces.

From last episode it seemed like the prime sentinels would be like TWD zombies, activated upon death but as we got the backstory the programmig can activate before death. In the books it was largely non-reversible. Once one is turned, its either kill or be killed. The X-men werent in a position to try and neutralize them when they had dozens rying to kill them and just one is very effective at taking them out. They had no choice but to destroy the prime sentinels by any means necessary