Is it time for DC to move away from "Everything is canon"

[Stanlos]

For sure. I don’t think people at DC realise the damage that this lack of definition causes. I’m reading their books but I don’t really know who any of the characters actually are anymore. We don’t know if they went through the character defining arcs we have read, or if they’re just the New 52 versions wearing different costumes.
Starfire is a prime example of that. In a book heavily inspired by Wolfman’s NTT run, her origin is actually from the New 52. Which outright contradicts large portions of her original character arc.
Power Girl is even worse because they allowed the writer to do whatever she wanted, regardless of continuity. So we have basically gotten a complete reset, including of her name and personality. All this while PG has a completely different backstory and personality in Johns’ JSA. It’s all a huge mess because there isn’t a concise direction or a willingness to make things work harmoniously.

I’ve said this before, but they desperately need to figure out which defining moments in their characters’ lives actually happened so that all creatives and editors are on the same page. And then they need to publish something like the simplified 2-page origin stories from post-Infinite Crisis to act as clear character bibles to readers.
The current model doesn’t work in anyone’s favor. It’s not creating better stories and is only alienating readers.

To this day I do not get why they are still mucking around with New Poopy-2 instead of treating everything aboush like a green glowing uranium turd in a synagogue.

[The Darknight Detective]

To this day I do not get why they are still mucking around with New Poopy-2 instead of treating everything aboush like a green glowing uranium turd in a synagogue.

No more with the feces analogies, please.

[scary harpy]

I think 'Everything is Cannon Fodder' would be far more accurate description of DC's continuity.

I feel DC's new goal should be 'Nothing is Cannon'.

I gave up trying to make sense of DC's continuity...and I think DC might as well do that too.

Any attempt to clarify continuity only seems to muddy it more...if that is still possible.

[superduperman]

No more with the feces analogies, please.

Take the fun out of everything!

[scary harpy]

Not knowing what is really going on contributes a large deal to me not wanting to invest in their characters or stories. I invest at all because of things I enjoyed in the past. These current continuity philosophies really aren't to my liking.

It's not an impossible thing to fix and untangle, but you need to have someone with a really good vision (there is a lot of subjectivity in that, I know) to oversee it, and really talented and motivated editors to keep things in line. I know all that's easier said than done, because there are so many opinions on how best to interpret this universe and its characters.

If DC could have done this, I think they would have by now.

I don't think anyone is capable of doing this.

[superduperman]

Even before Crisis the whole "everything counts" thing didn't really apply. For instance, Lana Lang's first appearance was in Superboy 10 in 1950 which shows him meeting her as a teenager after he started his career as Superboy. But Superboy's First Day of School in 1959 shows them meeting in kindergarten before he started his career. Obviously both can't be canon. And theoretically the later one would be considered canon. And even later stories from the 1980s shows them knowing each other as toddlers. So you have two "limbo" stories that wouldn't be considered canon even before the reboot.

[Primal Slayer]

If DC could have done this, I think they would have by now.

I don't think anyone is capable of doing this.

Marvel hasnt done a ton of reboots have they? They will do plenty of little retcons but for the most part they havent had to pull a DC

Even before Crisis the whole "everything counts" thing didn't really apply. For instance, Lana Lang's first appearance was in Superboy 10 in 1950 which shows him meeting her as a teenager after he started his career as Superboy. But Superboy's First Day of School in 1959 shows them meeting in kindergarten before he started his career. Obviously both can't be canon. And theoretically the later one would be considered canon. And even later stories from the 1980s shows them knowing each other as toddlers. So you have two "limbo" stories that wouldn't be considered canon even before the reboot.

That's when you create some reason to explain it away. Is someone constantly erasing their minds? Did Lana move away after kindergarten and move back for high school and they forgot about each other? etc...

[superduperman]

Marvel hasnt done a ton of reboots have they? They will do plenty of little retcons but for the most part they havent had to pull a DC

They had that Season One series a little over ten years ago. That was supposed to be kind of an "update" of the origins of their characters. Have no idea if they stuck though.

That's when you create some reason to explain it away. Is someone constantly erasing their minds? Did Lana move away after kindergarten and move back for high school and they forgot about each other? etc...

Obviously this is the most logical explanation!

[Robotman]

Disagree. For all its flaws, 'everything is canon' is the only viable way to make sense of DC comics current setting.

I’m fine with it too. There’s really no way make a definitive continuity at this point without a clean reboot.

Not a half assed reboot like post-Crisis or post-Flashpoint.

Absolute DC is an opportunity to have a strict continuity.

[Stanlos]

I’m fine with it too. There’s really no way make a definitive continuity at this point without a clean reboot.

Not a half assed reboot like post-Crisis or post-Flashpoint.

Absolute DC is an opportunity to have a strict continuity.

Would they have to do that really? Why couldn't the first page have the roll call and the whole "previously on How To Tank An Entire Universe In The Name Of Short Term Sales Spikes & The Stroking Of Certain Goober Egos..." and go from there?

[Lightning Rider]

It's hard to describe that subtle feeling of something missing when seeing certain characters interact. It probably doesn't matter too much in the solo books, but crossovers force the issue.

Does Barry remember losing Iris, raising twins in the future, dying in COIE, and coming back? Or is he still only a few years into his Flash career?
Does he remember two distinct tenures of Wally & Wallace as Kid Flash? Or was Wallace now always in the background?

Does Hal remember being Parallax or not? Did Blackest Night Happen?
Did Ollie and Hal go on their hard travelling heroes adventures? Do Ollie & Dinah remember their wedding?

Not even sure how Jon works.

[Rac7d*]

I think 'Everything is Cannon Fodder' would be far more accurate description of DC's continuity.

I feel DC's new goal should be 'Nothing is Cannon'.

I gave up trying to make sense of DC's continuity...and I think DC might as well do that too.

Any attempt to clarify continuity only seems to muddy it more...if that is still possible.

To create even a singular cannon at this point would destroy characters and regress characters it would impose rules, limits . It won’t fix DC but further divide it. The way things are now allows everyone to exist, it gives everyone their time and history.

[Jon Clark]

It's all a catch-22.

DC once had a set of basic facts that 99% of readers could agree on. We might squabble over when Wonder Woman in the current comics debuted (decades ago due to Wonder Girl's origin or just prior to the JLA forming like everyone but Superman), or some other piece of trivia. But by and large the Superman in Superman was the same guy in Action, JLA, World's Finest .... Same for Batman, the rest of the JLA, etc.

Then came Crisis and suddenly previous stories were more shaky. One writer might have Superman and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) as old friends, but another might treat them as heroes who shared a few JLA adventures but not any more friends than either was with Cyborg or the Demon. And some writers treated the Pre-Crisis stories not focused on Wonder Woman or Superman as still relevant while others felt that any story published before Crisis #12 was irrelevant.

And then we got the DCAU spinning out new takes that were not in line with the comics but which had very vocal fans. And constant resets like Zero Hour and explanations like hypertime.

And each new retelling or tweeking created set of fans who only knew the facts from a particular version. And the fans that lasted from one take to the next began to care less and less about details they knew would last maybe a dozen issues before a new writer came along to contradict them.

Now I fear we are at the point where any attempt to create a definitive take on Superman, Brother Power, the Flash, Robin (any Robin) ... will be treated like just another temporary set of details no more or less valid or "permanent" than the prior dozen.

The more anyone seeks to make something consistent the more a new creator is likely to change it up just to make it more to their liking. And the more the readers are likely to scream than some aspect should change (or change back) in the next crossover.

[Jon Clark]

To create even a singular cannon at this point would destroy characters and regress characters it would impose rules, limits . It won’t fix DC but further divide it. The way things are now allows everyone to exist, it gives everyone their time and history.

Except it doesn't. A character can't have a history if nothing about them can be set in stone. What history is there for Superman when we have no idea what has happened between his Wedding and Jon's 10th birthday? When we can't tell is the Kents have now always been alive or if there is supposed to be some Post-Flashpoint Pre-Rebirth period when they were believed to be dead? When we can't tell if the confident Power Girl in past stories (and the current JSA) is supposed to be the same character as the one currently in the Super-titles?

Can you tell stories with that fluid backdrop- sure. can you tell stories that actually build off each other- not really,

[wonder39]

I guess it depends upon how DC defines it?

If everything counts means that everything exists in its own proper universe, then that kinda works

If everything counts means that in the current version of Earth,which is ever changing, that everything happened but then that reality shifted and there's a new reality with new histories, but the previous one technically still happened..... That's nonsense. I mean yes, that's the reality of comics and how they work, but that's no way to maintain any kind of consistency or continuity

If I understand it correctly, the way the Multiverse expands is that as a reality altering to event happens, an Earth is created to preserve a copy of the previous continuity. Reality constantly shifting and spewing out copy Earths to save old continuity. So then technically " everything happened" on the constantly shifting main Earth.

It should be that , as a reality altering event happens, a new Earth is splintered off from the previous one, leaving the previous Earth and its continuity intact. It's a subtle difference, but important, as it creates new versions of the characters in in their new reality and doesn't alter existing characters while creating a copy of that reality

So then each Earth has its own reality and continuity. All are real, all exist. But no reality has become a new reality. No characters have been altered, just new versions created in their new Earth