Splitting the Bat World

[Guy_McNichts]

Common complaints with Batman these days is the family has become bloated, some characters are stuck in a rut or rendered redundant, and Batman himself is torn between being the relatively grounded vigilante of Gotham vs. the over-the-top superhero of the Justice League who fights gods and robots.

Fans have their preferences, and no one character or take is necessarily superior to the other. I'd argue the heart of the issue is DC tries to do all things at once, when some things just have to give.
And I know it's easy to say "So-and-so should be killed off or retire" or "This character must be the hero forever and never change" but good luck finding a consensus on that front.

An advantage of the Pre-Crisis Earths was it could allow different takes to operate at the same time without stepping over each other. You could have an Earth where the heroes are relatively new or ageless, while also have an Earth where they can age and retire and pass on their respective mantles.

So, if you had to split Batman's world between two (or more) Earths, how would you break it down? Who would go where and how would they be distinct from each other?

Here's how I'd do it:

EARTH-1

Bruce Wayne / Batman
early-to-mid thirties; allies with Commissioner Gordon, but still considered an outlaw by the police & public; rarely leaves Gotham; no affiliation with Justice League

Dick Grayson / Nightwing
the first Robin; early twenties; striking out on his own to be his own man

Jason Todd / Red Hood
the second Robin after Dick became Nightwing; wasn't killed, but something happened to him that made him turn away from Bruce; the black sheep, prodigal son of the family

Tim Drake / Robin
just became Robin; Bruce is reluctant to have him around after Jason, but Tim is eager to prove himself

Barbara Gordon / Batgirl
became Batgirl around same time Dick became Nightwing

Duke Thomas / Signal
I put him here because I don't want Earth-2 overcrowded, and a relatively new addition can spice up what's otherwise a "basics" approach to the Bat-family

Alfred is still alive; Catwoman is still riding the line between villain and anti-hero; Harley Quinn is still devoted to the Joker


EARTH-2

Bruce Wayne / Batman
early-to-mid fifties; still capable even if he's past his prime; accepted by police and public as great hero; routinely works with the Justice League to handle world-ending threats; maybe married to Selina

Dick Grayson / Nightwing (maybe Batman II)
late twenties, early thirties; first Robin, became Nightwing, on the verge of inheriting the Bat mantle if not already; worked with Titans; mainly deals with Gotham while Bruce works with League

Damian Wayne / Robin
after Jason Todd's death (and he stays dead here), Bruce swore there would be no more Robins; he discovers he had a child with Talia; Damian basically barges in and declares himself Robin against his wishes

Barbara Gordon / Oracle
was Batgirl until she was paralyzed; now operates as Oracle; co-founds the Birds of Prey with Black Canary; information broker for Bat-family and Justice League; mentor to new Batgirl

Cassandra Cain / Batgirl
second Batgirl after Babs; runaway daughter of David Cain; dedicated to Bruce and the Bat-family

Helena Bertinelli / Huntress
I put her here because 1) Earth-1 already has a black sheep with Jason, and 2) this allows her to work with Oracle and the Birds of Prey

Alfred has passed away; Catwoman is fully reformed and part of the Bat-family, if not married to Bruce; Harley also reformed into anti-hero


UNDECIDED: Stephanie Brown
On the one hand, if she's on Earth-1, she can be with Tim as Spoiler; on the other hand, on Earth-2, she can partner with Cass and become another Batgirl

[atomicbattery]

I like your splits.
Well done

[Frontier]

I feel like Tim, Steph, and Cass should be on the same Earth because they're like their whole generation of protege's or teen vigilante's and are mutually important to each other (maybe moreso Steph in-between Tim and Cass compared to, say, Tim and Cass).

[scary harpy]

I love the idea of splitting the Bat-family among 2 Earths.

[WebLurker]

I feel like Tim, Steph, and Cass should be on the same Earth because they're like their whole generation of protege's or teen vigilante's and are mutually important to each other (maybe moreso Steph in-between Tim and Cass compared to, say, Tim and Cass).

Yeah, if you had to choose between the two, Steph is better off with Cass (and that does fit better with DC's plans as of late), but having all three in the same setting does make sense (even if you're not going to have Steph dating Tim or teaming up with him, there's story to mine out of them being exes). Will admit that I have a hard time seeing Tim relevant to anything, but I respect that others may disagree.

IMHO, I might have Tim and Steph be about the same age (they were dating and if you're going to do a break up story so Tim can date Bernard and Steph can go out with Kyle or whatever, would make for a more interesting story if they were at similar life milestones and learned the hard way that they ultimately wanted different things out of life*). Agree that Cass should be at least a little younger; while see and Steph are close enough in age to be peers, Steph did sometimes seem like an older sister figure at points.

*Back when the Tim Drake[/I] ongoing was still published and I was hearing all the complaints about how weaksauce Tim's dumping Steph was, put a lot of thought into ideas of what an interesting break up story would be.[/i]

[Frontier]

Yeah, if you had to choose between the two, Steph is better off with Cass (and that does fit better with DC's plans as of late), but having all three in the same setting does make sense (even if you're not going to have Steph dating Tim or teaming up with him, there's story to mine out of them being exes). Will admit that I have a hard time seeing Tim relevant to anything, but I respect that others may disagree.

IMHO, I might have Tim and Steph be about the same age (they were dating and if you're going to do a break up story so Tim can date Bernard and Steph can go out with Kyle or whatever, would make for a more interesting story if they were at similar life milestones and learned the hard way that they ultimately wanted different things out of life*). Agree that Cass should be at least a little younger; while see and Steph are close enough in age to be peers, Steph did sometimes seem like an older sister figure at points.

*Back when the Tim Drake[/I] ongoing was still published and I was hearing all the complaints about how weaksauce Tim's dumping Steph was, put a lot of thought into ideas of what an interesting break up story would be.[/i]

Granted a good chunk of her character history and motivation was centered around her relationship with Tim and both are each others' best relationship (especially compared to Bernard or Kyle).

[bat39]

Funnily enough, DC didn't really do a lot with the Pre-Crisis Multiverse concept in terms of giving us different takes on characters or franchises. Earth 2 Superman, Batman etc. were basically a plot device to explain how these heroes were part of both the JLA and JSA, and served as de-facto 'possible future' versions of those characters. But Earth 2 Batman, apart from being older, married to Selina and with a daughter, wasn't that radically different from Earth 1 Batman. We also barely got to see him before he was killed off.

Since we're apparently getting an 'Ultimate DC' in the form of 'Absolute DC' that's where I'll split off one version of the Dark Knight and his world.

Earth 0 - Mainline DCU

-Bruce Wayne is in his mid-to-late 40's. As Batman he is a veteran crime-fighter and globally renowned hero.

-Batman is hailed as the great hero who wiped out organized crime in Gotham and defends it from super-villains, terrorists and other threats. He's a long-standing senior member of the Justice League, one of Superman's best friends and closest allies, and a close friend and ally to the other major Justice League heroes/founders.

-Dick Grayson, in his early 30's, is Nightwing, veteran leader of the Titans.

-Barbara Gordon was Batgirl until she was paralyzed. She's now Oracle. Though spinal implants restored her mobility to a great extent, enabling her to briefly resume the Batgirl mantle, she prefers to stay off the field and serve as a mentor to the new Batgirl Cassandra Cain, as well as leader of the Birds of Prey.

-Tim Drake is a former Robin who has retired from active crime-fighting in the field, but continues to aid the Bat-family and the superhero community as a genius technologist. Occasionally returns to the field as Red Robin.

-Damian Wayne, son of Bruce and Talia, is the current Robin.

-The large extended Bat-family, with a rotating membership, includes - Helena Wayne/Huntress (Bruce and Selina's daughter from an alternate timeline/possible future), Duke Thomas/Signal, Harper Row/Blue Bird, Stephanie Brown/Spoiler, Cassandra Cain/Batgirl, Jason Todd/Red Robin and Kate Kane/Batwoman.

-Commissioner Gordon is in charge of the GCPD, now on the verge of retirement.

-Default Batsuit: 'New Look' blue & grey suit with yellow oval

Absolute DC

-Bruce Wayne is in his early 30's having been active as Batman for the last several years.

-Batman is regarded as an outlaw vigilante by the authorities, though the public and a section of the media are gradually warming upto him. He's dealt a severe blow to organized crime in Gotham, led by figures such as Carmine Falcone and Sal Maroni, but night after night he continues to fight what sometimes appears to be a hopeless battle, even as a new breed of eccentric costumed 'freaks' start to appear. The Justice League doesn't exist yet and Batman, if he has encountered Superman or any other heroes, has an antagonistic relationship with them and views them with suspicion.

-Dick Grayson, in his late teens, has fairly recently become Robin and is about to head to college.

-Barbara Gordon, having just graduated college, is about to begin her career as Batgirl.

-Another notable Gotham vigilante is Helena Bertinelli AKA Huntress who comes onto Batman's radar and falls foul of him.

-Recently promoted Captain Gordon is head of the Major Crimes Unit, and covertly works with Batman.

-Default Batsuit: Year One suit or New 52 armored suit with plain black bat

[Aahz]

Common complaints with Batman these days is the family has become bloated, some characters are stuck in a rut or rendered redundant, and Batman himself is torn between being the relatively grounded vigilante of Gotham vs. the over-the-top superhero of the Justice League who fights gods and robots.

I don't think this would really help the "redundant charcters".

The thing is that one of these two earth will end up being the main continuity, and while I think the batman himself is popular enough to carry a book set in a secondary earth, I don't think any of the other Batfamily characters can do that on the long run.

And there is in the end of the day still a limit to how many Bat books people can buy, and with the lack of quality of a lot of these books,that's not going to be changed by having to earths.

[scary harpy]

Forget what I posted before...too many Bat characters and I forgot some.


Bruce Wayne
Richard Grayson
Alfred Pennyworth/Beagle
Kathy Kane
Betty Kane - Bat Girl
Bette Kane - Flamebird
Barbara Gordon
Kate Kane
Mary Wills - Roberta, Girl Wonder
Helena Wayne
Helena Bertinelli
Jason Todd
Tim Drake
Luke Fox
Duke Thomas
Cass Cain
Charley Bullock - Blackwing
Carrie Kelly
Damian Wayne
Ace - Bathound

Have I forgotten anyone?

[dietrich]

It seems a no brainer not to have a world with well received Dick Grayson batman, Damian Wayne Robin and Batgirl Steph.This could be Earth 2. so

Earth 2
DickBats
Damian Robin
Steph Batgirl
Bertinelli Huntress
Jason Red hood
Luke Batwing
Babs Nightwing

Earth 1 would have
Batman Bruce
Nightwing Grayson
Robin Duke
Oracle Tim
Batgirl Babs
Jason Hood
Wayne Huntress
Harper BlueBird

[WebLurker]

Granted a good chunk of her character history and motivation was centered around her relationship with Tim and both are each others' best relationship (especially compared to Bernard or Kyle).

Dunno, always seemed to me like Steph really came into her own after breaking up with Tim and Tim's handling the breakup really makes it seem like she deserves better. Just saying.

[Frontier]

Dunno, always seemed to me like Steph really came into her own after breaking up with Tim and Tim's handling the breakup really makes it seem like she deserves better. Just saying.

I think their relationship and experience together was good for both of their mutual developments as heroes .

[phonogram12]

Here's mine:

Batman - Bruce Wayne
Nightwing - Richard Grayson
Alfred Pennyworth
Batwoman - Kathy Kane
Flamebird - Bette Kane
Huntress - Helena Wayne
Damian Wayne
Ace - Bathound

Batman - Bruce Wayne
Nightwing - Richard Grayson
Alfred Pennyworth
Barbara Gordon
Huntress - Helena Bertinelli
Robin - Tim Drake
Red Hood - Jason Todd
Cass Cain