Unpopular/Controversial Opinions

[NK1988]

That's actually the bit that bugs me about it. I'd be fine with Hank having a ding to his reputation because of a horrible past mistake, *if* that sort of blowback affected Reed, who sent supervillain 'cape-killers' after his wife, best friend and brother-in-law after a political disagreement, created an unstable psychotic clone of an ally (Thor) to create the false illusion that Thor was on his side, resulting in the death of Bill Foster, and has, on multiple occasions, genetically tinkered with his son without his knowledge or consent. And, despite remaining pretty comfortable with having made the right choices all those times... he gets a pass? (And Reed's just the first name to jump out. Tony's still got some splainin' to do about that whole Armor Wars business, where he attacked other Avengers, raided a government facility to sabotage stuff *he'd sold them*, and killed a Russian hero while invading their country.)

Either Hank gets a little less righteous judgement, or other characters who have messed up *way more* get dragged through the mud. (I'm not actually a fan of any of that nonsense even happening in the first place, let alone being brought up again, so I'd rather that Hank gets cut some slack.)

So I wanna talk about a couple anime for a second. It's relevant to your point, though.

In the anime Fairy Tail, a villainous character is introduced impaling one of our heroines to a tree. Later on, the villain turns good and the two of them become a couple.
In the anime My Hero Academia, one character has a backstory of physically and emotionally abusing his wife. He goes through a redemption arc as well but I don't see anyone clamoring for them to get back together.

My point is, while everything you listed from Reed or Tony is objectively worse than what Hank did, it doesn't feel as bad. What the guy in FT did is very "comic book-y" while what the guy did in MHA is very "real." Hank doing domestic abuse offends people because it's a very real thing, as opposed to making clones to murder people.

But yes, it's all about what the fans and editors want people to remember. Daken probably raped people. That's gonna be quietly shoved under the rug from here on out, even if he returns as a villain.

[Anthony W]

The "Made In The USA" miniseries saved the America Chavez character. Kalinda Vazquez and Carlos Gomez do not get enough credit.

[Will Evans]

The "Made In The USA" miniseries saved the America Chavez character. Kalinda Vazquez and Carlos Gomez do not get enough credit.

I may be wrong but has anything from that retcon origin been seen outside of that miniseries?

[Anthony W]

I may be wrong but has anything from that retcon origin been seen outside of that miniseries?

It's not so much the origin retcon, that makes it work. It's the fact that when someone is looking for a something with great story and art starring the character you can point them right at that book.

[mysterio1989]

X-Men and Avengers are not friends and can never co-exist

Uncanny Avengers was a mistake and should be forgotten

The X-Men should be removed from the Marvel Universe and have there own line of comics without the need of "crossovers" and team ups. They have a large mythos in their library that makes them sufficient enough.

The iron man x Emma wedding was a mistake. Having the two associated is disgusting. Tony can do better

Magneto, Jean Grey and Xavier were better off 6 feet under

[Draegwolf]

I think the changes made to the Black Knight mythos since Original Sin have effectively done nothing more than ensure that Dane Whitman will never be taken seriously. It's disgusting that the dude lead the Avengers for a good chunk of time during the 90's and yet they barely seem to tolerate him to the point of either policing his activities or actively avoiding him unless they actually need something. Dane's a victim of a rather powerful curse due to the burden his family was bestowed with the Ebony Blade and yet he's constantly treated as being the problem by people like Cap who actively overlook the amount of bodies Nat and Bucky have put into the ground.

The Unity Squad rolling into Weirdworld and turning the populus against Black Knight after the series built him up as this great unifier and tactician that had successfully anticipated Old Man Rogers strategy was as stupid as the Avengers turning on him for killing a villain in the heat of battle because of the Ebony Blade.

Black Knight's bloodline being immune to magical curses makes more sense than the Ebony Blade needing to be wielded by an individual in a bi-polar, borderline suicidal state of mind to fully access the totality of its power.

[Ptrvc]

That's actually the bit that bugs me about it. I'd be fine with Hank having a ding to his reputation because of a horrible past mistake, *if* that sort of blowback affected Reed, who sent supervillain 'cape-killers' after his wife, best friend and brother-in-law after a political disagreement, created an unstable psychotic clone of an ally (Thor) to create the false illusion that Thor was on his side, resulting in the death of Bill Foster, and has, on multiple occasions, genetically tinkered with his son without his knowledge or consent. And, despite remaining pretty comfortable with having made the right choices all those times... he gets a pass? (And Reed's just the first name to jump out. Tony's still got some splainin' to do about that whole Armor Wars business, where he attacked other Avengers, raided a government facility to sabotage stuff *he'd sold them*, and killed a Russian hero while invading their country.)

Either Hank gets a little less righteous judgement, or other characters who have messed up *way more* get dragged through the mud. (I'm not actually a fan of any of that nonsense even happening in the first place, let alone being brought up again, so I'd rather that Hank gets cut some slack.)

I think part of Hank's problem is the mundanity of what he did as compared to say Reed or Tony. Very few people have dealt with hitmen, and nobody has dealt with out of control clones.

But has everyone knows someone who's been affected by spousal abuse in some manner. And it's easy to project that anger onto Hank Pym. It doesn't help that it happened early enough that it became a core aspect of how the character was perceived by consumers.

Compare that to when Peter Parker hit MJ years later. In the former Hank takes the heat, in the latter the storyline/creative team take the blame.

[Sutekh]

I think the changes made to the Black Knight mythos since Original Sin have effectively done nothing more than ensure that Dane Whitman will never be taken seriously. It's disgusting that the dude lead the Avengers for a good chunk of time during the 90's and yet they barely seem to tolerate him to the point of either policing his activities or actively avoiding him unless they actually need something.

Dane's a victim of the same crap formula that fell on Scott Lang and Clint Barton before him. The formerly very competent and experienced and *respected* character, who has not only been a valued member of teams like the Avengers or Fantastic Four or Thunderbolts, but even *led teams,* suddenly being the 'Homer' and the butt of jokes and disrespected by the community and having to be led around and have his useless butt pulled out of the fire by a teen daughter (or, in Clint's case, Kate Bishop).

They keep retelling that same damn story, and it sucks. Cassie Lang, for instance, is a fun character, as is Kate Bishop, and neither of them ever required Scott or Clint to become bumbling has-been losers to 'establish' their credibility as heroes in their own right. (And I certainly don't blame Cassie or Kate as characters for the utterly shit writing of Scott and Clint in any teamups with them.)

I don't think Jacks required that either. She already had a built-in hook with the mutant angle, and could have featured *hugely* into the Krakoa narrative, as the new POV character being introduced to this new society and all it's wonders and sketchy elements. She would have been perfect there, and exactly none of that would have required Dane to be dragged through the mud the way Clint and Scott had been before him.

But that's the idiot formula. Want to pump a new young character? Gotta trash the dad (figuratively, in Clint's case).

I kind of dread Thor's daughter(s) ever coming into 616, since Thor's gonna likely become some sort of bumbling incompetent they have to save from his own ineptitude or 'helpless old guy' out-of-touchness, if that happens.

[ComicNoobie]

X-Men and Avengers are not friends and can never co-exist

Uncanny Avengers was a mistake and should be forgotten

The X-Men should be removed from the Marvel Universe and have there own line of comics without the need of "crossovers" and team ups. They have a large mythos in their library that makes them sufficient enough.

The iron man x Emma wedding was a mistake. Having the two associated is disgusting. Tony can do better

Magneto, Jean Grey and Xavier were better off 6 feet under

This is an interesting opinion as I can see both pros and cons to the X-Men being separated from the rest of the superhero community. They can pull it off because most of the big stories with the X-Men and Avengers do not include the other team outside like AvX, which sucked anyway. But that's subjective.

Dane's a victim of the same crap formula that fell on Scott Lang and Clint Barton before him. The formerly very competent and experienced and *respected* character, who has not only been a valued member of teams like the Avengers or Fantastic Four or Thunderbolts, but even *led teams,* suddenly being the 'Homer' and the butt of jokes and disrespected by the community and having to be led around and have his useless butt pulled out of the fire by a teen daughter (or, in Clint's case, Kate Bishop).

They keep retelling that same damn story, and it sucks. Cassie Lang, for instance, is a fun character, as is Kate Bishop, and neither of them ever required Scott or Clint to become bumbling has-been losers to 'establish' their credibility as heroes in their own right. (And I certainly don't blame Cassie or Kate as characters for the utterly shit writing of Scott and Clint in any teamups with them.)

I don't think Jacks required that either. She already had a built-in hook with the mutant angle, and could have featured *hugely* into the Krakoa narrative, as the new POV character being introduced to this new society and all it's wonders and sketchy elements. She would have been perfect there, and exactly none of that would have required Dane to be dragged through the mud the way Clint and Scott had been before him.

But that's the idiot formula. Want to pump a new young character? Gotta trash the dad (figuratively, in Clint's case).

I kind of dread Thor's daughter(s) ever coming into 616, since Thor's gonna likely become some sort of bumbling incompetent they have to save from his own ineptitude or 'helpless old guy' out-of-touchness, if that happens.

Can't speak for Dane/Black Knight as I don't read much of his material but Scott has been 'Homerfied' since the MCU movies. Whatever respect he had with the Avengers was no longer there in Astonishing Ant-Man and it's been downward since then. I don't really think it's done anything to elevate Cassie though. She's been helpless damsel for a majority of Astonishing Ant-Man, is ignored in favor of Nadia to have adventures with Scott while not even acknowledging her hero persona, was taken offscreen in Secret Empire to motivate Scott because that's all she's good for, and in a series focusing on characters who grow giant she only gets one appearance at the end (though I love the Giant Man mini in War of the Realms) Only in the Zeb Wells run did Cassie ever look to be equal or better than Scott. And it's nowhere near as noticeable as how inferior they made Scott look to Nadia when they team up. At least with Cassie she gets the same disrespect from the Avengers as Scott does. The Lang's are losers in marvel.

Clint and Kate is different. Clint's a mess but so is Kate in different areas. She gets in over her head loads of times. When it comes to Clint I feel the character has kind of peaked already. His leadership roles were outstanding but they don't lean on that aspect anymore, and now that every superhero is 'quippy' thanks to the MCU it's hard for him to stand out as Cap's rule breaking rival anymore. Still I think Clint and Kate have been dealt a much better hand than Scott and Cassie. Heck, Scott can't even be the 'dad' Ant-Man anymore because Hank/Nadia/Hope can now replicate and replace it. In What If.. Hank Pym was basically what comic Scott Lang once was. A well respected resourceful hero who had a daughter to care for.

[Anthony W]

Dane's a victim of the same crap formula that fell on Scott Lang and Clint Barton before him. The formerly very competent and experienced and *respected* character, who has not only been a valued member of teams like the Avengers or Fantastic Four or Thunderbolts, but even *led teams,* suddenly being the 'Homer' and the butt of jokes and disrespected by the community and having to be led around and have his useless butt pulled out of the fire by a teen daughter (or, in Clint's case, Kate Bishop).
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This! What Marvel fails to understand is that trying to pump up a character this way just makes the fans hate that character. This is why people are giving Blade's daughter the side eye, because we have seen this before.

[Anthony W]

Hickman's run on X-MEN (if you can even call it a run) does not come close to Claremont's run.

Morrison's run on X-MEN is better than Hickman's

Whedon's run on X-MEN is better than Hickman's.

Scott Lobdell's run on X-MEN is better than Hickman's, yeah I said it.

[Felipe Silveira]

Jeff Parker's Agents of Atlas is a modern Marvel classic, and should be better appreciated.

[mysterio1989]

This is an interesting opinion as I can see both pros and cons to the X-Men being separated from the rest of the superhero community. They can pull it off because most of the big stories with the X-Men and Avengers do not include the other team outside like AvX, which sucked anyway. But that's subjective.

Between X-Men TAS, wolverine and the X-Men and Evolution, they have a large sufficient library to be their own independent universe without the need of Avengers or Fantastic Four crossing over. The majority of their stories are all X-related why bother seeing them interact with other heroes. X-fans came for the x-men and mutant adjacent characters.

[M@Bowers2014]

Hickman's run on X-MEN (if you can even call it a run) does not come close to Claremont's run.

Morrison's run on X-MEN is better than Hickman's

Whedon's run on X-MEN is better than Hickman's.

Scott Lobdell's run on X-MEN is better than Hickman's, yeah I said it.

You had me with you until that last one. I dropped the X-Men because of his stories. Bleh. Anyway...

[Anthony W]

Marvel Voices should be done away with.