Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[whitecrown]

When Emma asked them what the Avengers did for the mutants after Genosha, Tony and Carol should have reminded Emma that she worked for the group that developed the Sentinels in the first place.

Agreed, most morally bankrupt character to ever exist. She needs to be slaughtered already by a Sentinel she helped create, especially for her crimes against Storm and her rapist ways.

[whitecrown]

I don’t think an author can hate a character he/she writes because to write him or her, he/she must put himself/herself in his/her character’s shoes, understand how the character thinks, why he or she acts the way he or she does, and so on… I mean if the author is professionnal and takes to heart to write believable stories.

When asked to name a favorite character, Claremont said he couldn’t choose one, well, immediately anyway…

He was asked if he hates Cyclops and he said he doesn't hate him. He hates what was done to him.

[whitecrown]

Honestly, and I guess this will be my unpopular opinion but the end of his saga really felt like hte Muir Island Saga. That was the culmination of so many plots and it ended with his run feeling resolved. X-men #1 very much felt like a new era more so than the end of Claremont's saga. While alot of the 90s material wasnt the greatest, I felt Claremont needed to leave when he did in order to let the franchise grow

That's because X-Men #1 was treated as a relaunch because CC was leaving by then. His vision was tainted by UXM 279. Only the first half of that issue is really his and the second half, when Colossus comes back, is when it goes off the rails and isn't based on CC's plan anymore.

CC has always been able to keep the franchise fresh and let it grow. He didn't want a back to basics. He was forced to do that by Bob Harras and Jim Lee. Like Loki was supposed to be the one who confronted Rogue at the end of UXM 269 but Jim Lee felt he wasn't an X-Villain and he wanted to do a classic X-Men villain, hence Magneto. The Muir Island Saga we got was only a test run for the real Muir Island Saga which was set for UXM 300. That was the finale where all the factions would come together against Shadow King who had control of Muir Island, the Hellfire Club, the Reavers, the Morlocks, etc. Xavier would die and Magneto would remain fully reformed and the team's new leader. Gateway would become the X-Men's spiritual leader.

And before the events of that, we would have The Dark Wolverine Saga. Wolverine would die at Lady Deathstrike's hands and be resurrected by the Hand and serve as their assassin for about a year or two in real-time. Then Colossus would rip out his adamantium claws and we'd discover that he had real claws underneath, in his nails (talons like Sabretooth's natural claws or what Kitty develops in X-Men Forever). His healing factor would never be as strong as it used to be and all the adamantium in his skeleton would be rejected and ooze out of him, temporarily turning his hair silver. Then he and Jean would learn they had a psychic rapport from when she tried to save him from The Hand (The Hand's real target was Jean. They used Psylocke as a test run and then Wolverine to get to Jean through their psychic rapport. They wanted the power of the Phoenix) and would end up together. So all of this would lead to issue #300 where the real Muir Island Saga would exist. Val Cooper would be exposed as Mystique here and Tessa would reveal herself to be Xavier's double agent and thus not under Shadow King's control like the rest of the Hellfire Club.

[whitecrown]

Might be wrong, but the 90s comics still tried to keep close to canon and all the growing amount of backstory for each characters. So you felt these characters were alive, because each character was the sum of what they had faced and lived through in the previous 30years; on the contrary, Krakoa-era felt more like Barbie dolls (or action figures) to use to play a plot. Back then there was more focus on their personal relationships (IMHO) and what went on their heads. Panel time/space was given to the characters to hang out and have vis-a-vis chats about their hurdles and issues: their "mental status" wasn't left to us readers to imagine.
Krakoa-era felt cold because there was too little acknowledgements of personal relationships and the past of these characters, especially in an era where heroes and villains had chosen to live side by side. Also, each character now seem to have the same kind of relationship with their teammates, no matter that they had grown up together or never served in the same team once.

I agree 100%. There was still an attempt to hew to characterization and continuity back then, unlike the 21st century when anything goes. These characters, even without Claremont, still felt fully realized and like themselves for the most part. Editors stopped doing their jobs in the new millennium which you can see by the lack of footnotes to prior issues. That's why many gave up after the 90s and particularly after Eve of Destruction when the X-Men stopped being the X-Men but became something else entirely. I've seen many X-Fans who either only stick to Claremont's canon or end the X-Men at Eve of Destruction as the finale.

[Darth_Caedus]

Claremont trying his best to cuck Scott lol

[sunofdarkchild]

The 90s were better than more recent eras, but I see the X-Men books as being in a general state of decline going back to at least the time Bob Harris took over from Jim Shooter, if not from Shooter's decision to greenlight Jean's return and regress the entire 05 so X-Factor could exist. The 2010s were worse than the 2000s, which were worse than the 90s, which were worse than the 80s.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

That's because X-Men #1 was treated as a relaunch because CC was leaving by then. His vision was tainted by UXM 279. Only the first half of that issue is really his and the second half, when Colossus comes back, is when it goes off the rails and isn't based on CC's plan anymore.

CC has always been able to keep the franchise fresh and let it grow. He didn't want a back to basics. He was forced to do that by Bob Harras and Jim Lee. Like Loki was supposed to be the one who confronted Rogue at the end of UXM 269 but Jim Lee felt he wasn't an X-Villain and he wanted to do a classic X-Men villain, hence Magneto. The Muir Island Saga we got was only a test run for the real Muir Island Saga which was set for UXM 300. That was the finale where all the factions would come together against Shadow King who had control of Muir Island, the Hellfire Club, the Reavers, the Morlocks, etc. Xavier would die and Magneto would remain fully reformed and the team's new leader. Gateway would become the X-Men's spiritual leader.

And before the events of that, we would have The Dark Wolverine Saga. Wolverine would die at Lady Deathstrike's hands and be resurrected by the Hand and serve as their assassin for about a year or two in real-time. Then Colossus would rip out his adamantium claws and we'd discover that he had real claws underneath, in his nails (talons like Sabretooth's natural claws or what Kitty develops in X-Men Forever). His healing factor would never be as strong as it used to be and all the adamantium in his skeleton would be rejected and ooze out of him, temporarily turning his hair silver. Then he and Jean would learn they had a psychic rapport from when she tried to save him from The Hand (The Hand's real target was Jean. They used Psylocke as a test run and then Wolverine to get to Jean through their psychic rapport. They wanted the power of the Phoenix) and would end up together. So all of this would lead to issue #300 where the real Muir Island Saga would exist. Val Cooper would be exposed as Mystique here and Tessa would reveal herself to be Xavier's double agent and thus not under Shadow King's control like the rest of the Hellfire Club.

how much of this is guess work and how much was actually plotted?

[marhawkman]

The 90s were better than more recent eras, but I see the X-Men books as being in a general state of decline going back to at least the time Bob Harris took over from Jim Shooter, if not from Shooter's decision to greenlight Jean's return and regress the entire 05 so X-Factor could exist. The 2010s were worse than the 2000s, which were worse than the 90s, which were worse than the 80s.

TAS was fromt he peak Xmen era. 97... is inherently worse since it's adapting stories that aren't as good....

[whitecrown]

how much of this is guess work and how much was actually plotted?

https://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspo...or-united.html
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/marv...0s-t29949.html

It's been out there since the 90s. You can easily find about a dozen or so other links with the same info since Claremont's always talked about his plans especially back when he posted on his old forum, Cordially Chris.

[Agent Z]

Agreed, most morally bankrupt character to ever exist. She needs to be slaughtered already by a Sentinel she helped create, especially for her crimes against Storm and her rapist ways.

I don't think she should be killed, just called out for it.

[Nicoclaws]

To be fair, Emma's "variable" morality and heroism have been quzstioned several times by several characters, notably characters she victimized and they had falling outs. And as for Storm they're still not buddy buddy.

[skyvolt2000]

I don’t think an author can hate a character he/she writes because to write him or her, he/she must put himself/herself in his/her character’s shoes, understand how the character thinks, why he or she acts the way he or she does, and so on… I mean if the author is professionnal and takes to heart to write believable stories.

When asked to name a favorite character, Claremont said he couldn’t choose one, well, immediately anyway…

I suspect you have NOT read the last 8 years of Black Panther.

Where open hatred of T'Challa has been expressed by at least 1 of the last 3 writers.

Priest didn't care for T'Challa yet it never showed in his writing of that 60+ issue run.

[Sin Nick]

I suspect you have NOT read the last 8 years of Black Panther.

Where open hatred of T'Challa has been expressed by at least 1 of the last 3 writers.

Priest didn't care for T'Challa yet it never showed in his writing of that 60+ issue run.

Kinda reminds me of how Larry Hama never cared or heard of Wolverine when he got the job and yet wrote arguably the best version of him. Just goes to show sometimes being emotionally invested in a character, whether positive or otherwise, maybe isn't best for said character.

[SiegePerilous02]

Claremont really shouldn't complain about Cyclops too much, since he set up Scott for failure by having him rush into a marriage with a woman he barely knew who looked and sounded exactly like his dead finance that he shared a psychic link with when she killed herself right in front of him less than a year prior. Scott was clearly having some sort of mental breakdown that was inevitably going to be bad for him and this poor woman, and the X-Men waved him off without a care. It's not nearly as serious to what the Avengers did to Carol Danvers with the Marcus Immortus situation, but the X-Men are still failing as friends who should take note of red flags (as well as Alex, his own brother).

Bob Layton and Jim Shooter took it to the next level, because everything in those early X-Factor issues are terrible from top to bottom and Maddie is the most sympathetic character. But Chris's goals for the Scott/Madelyn marriage were always creepy and weird. It's just because he couldn't let go of his original plan to marry off Scott and Jean to have Rachel. So Scott marries a woman who is nothing like Jean but is also exactly like her, and they have a kid who is not Rachel, but Rachel is still time traveling. Couldn't he have written Scott out by sending him on an indefinite space adventure with his dad? That option is even presented as a possibility before Maddie shows up.

[zinderel]

Apocalypse has never been more compelling than he is, currently. Not a hero, not a villain. A man willing to be either, if it allows his people to thrive. He has committed MONSTROUS acts, without question. Sometimes, against the very people he now works with. They know they can’t trust him except in ONE thing: He will do WHATEVER it takes to see that mutantkind survives. He’s so old that human morality is a distant memory at BEST, and when people confront him with their modern moral concerns, he weighs those concerns against the only morality that matters: the survival of his people, at any cost. I think the term is ‘Anti-Villain’. He shouldn’t be an X-Man. He should be the terrifying dragon on the mountain, the elder vampire that the X-Men turn to out of desperation, and that they more often than not have to protect humanity from…but can’t risk losing.

Juggernaut was an abused kid in a costume that made him tough enough to finally lash out at his abusers by targeting the brother he thought was treated like a golden boy. After falling in love with a wacky Irish criminal, the edges began to round down, and eventually he realized that Xavier had been abused, too. They had both been victims of their fathers, and maybe they didn’t have to be victims of one another, anymore? He realized that the armor he thought was protecting him was only heaping more layers of abuse onto him. So he broke free of it to forge his own path, and build armor that was HIS, from a place of love and acceptance? That’s beautiful! I approve of Cain’s face turn wholeheartedly, because it’s been earned, and Tom’s with him. I don’t know if they should both be X-Men, but allies? Absolutely.

Sinister, Mystique, Destiny, Sabretooth, Shaw, Selene? All straight up, inveterate Villains. They will never NOT be villains. They are all too selfish, too amoral, too deliberately cruel. The X-Men need to stop trusting them and giving them chances to reform.

Cyclops is at his best when he is a hero who doesn’t toe the line. Who questions paragons and gets in the face of gods, and makes tough choices, even if they make him unpopular. Cyclops is at his best when he’s sort of a counterpart to Apocalypse. Like Apocalypse, Scott is willing to do WHATEVER it takes to save his people…but he puts HIMSELF on the line, where Apocalypse tends to put everyone ELSE on the line. I like that, for some reason…