Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

https://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspo...or-united.html
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/marv...0s-t29949.html

It's been out there since the 90s. You can easily find about a dozen or so other links with the same info since Claremont's always talked about his plans especially back when he posted on his old forum, Cordially Chris.

awesome thank you

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

Apocalypse has never been more compelling than he is, currently. Not a hero, not a villain. A man willing to be either, if it allows his people to thrive. He has committed MONSTROUS acts, without question. Sometimes, against the very people he now works with. They know they can’t trust him except in ONE thing: He will do WHATEVER it takes to see that mutantkind survives. He’s so old that human morality is a distant memory at BEST, and when people confront him with their modern moral concerns, he weighs those concerns against the only morality that matters: the survival of his people, at any cost. I think the term is ‘Anti-Villain’. He shouldn’t be an X-Man. He should be the terrifying dragon on the mountain, the elder vampire that the X-Men turn to out of desperation, and that they more often than not have to protect humanity from…but can’t risk losing,

I could not agree more and find it sad that this is in unpopular or controversial... and I would say this was him even in X cutioner song

Juggernaut was an abused kid in a costume that made him tough enough to finally lash out at his abusers by targeting the brother he thought was treated like a golden boy. After falling in love with a wacky Irish criminal, the edges began to round down, and eventually he realized that Xavier had been abused, too. They had both been victims of their fathers, and maybe they didn’t have to be victims of one another, anymore? He realized that the armor he thought was protecting him was only heaping more layers of abuse onto him. So he broke free of it to forge his own path, and build armor that was HIS, from a place of love and acceptance? That’s beautiful! I approve of Cain’s face turn wholeheartedly, because it’s been earned, and Tom’s with him. I don’t know if they should both be X-Men, but allies? Absolutely.

you are spitting fire... 100%

Sinister, Mystique, Destiny, Sabretooth, Shaw, Selene? All straight up, inveterate Villains.

I think mystique/Destiny have a middle ground where the others I am 1,000% agreeing with... somewhere between magneto was right and apocolypse can be trusted in his own way lies those two in my opinion...
HOWEVER they need to do the work with these two...

Cyclops is at his best when he is a hero who doesn’t toe the line.

you know what I just want to nominate you to be the new line leader for Xmen and to be in the room when they bring the XMen to the MCU (along with the fired show runner of xmen97)

[Darth_Caedus]

I still think the based Alpha male Cyclops of the Utopian era will resonate better to a younger male audience. Bro had become mutant Han Solo

[JThree]

Claremont really shouldn't complain about Cyclops too much, since he set up Scott for failure by having him rush into a marriage with a woman he barely knew who looked and sounded exactly like his dead finance that he shared a psychic link with when she killed herself right in front of him less than a year prior. Scott was clearly having some sort of mental breakdown that was inevitably going to be bad for him and this poor woman, and the X-Men waved him off without a care. It's not nearly as serious to what the Avengers did to Carol Danvers with the Marcus Immortus situation, but the X-Men are still failing as friends who should take note of red flags (as well as Alex, his own brother).

Bob Layton and Jim Shooter took it to the next level, because everything in those early X-Factor issues are terrible from top to bottom and Maddie is the most sympathetic character. But Chris's goals for the Scott/Madelyn marriage were always creepy and weird. It's just because he couldn't let go of his original plan to marry off Scott and Jean to have Rachel. So Scott marries a woman who is nothing like Jean but is also exactly like her, and they have a kid who is not Rachel, but Rachel is still time traveling. Couldn't he have written Scott out by sending him on an indefinite space adventure with his dad? That option is even presented as a possibility before Maddie shows up.

Disagree. It was Claremont's original plan for Maddie to originally be Jean reborn. Check out those few pages from XMen (Can't remember those issue numbers) from the mid eighties. I think it was a valid plan, until Layton, Shooter, and everyone else came up with an alternate plan to bring Jean back.
--jthree

[whitecrown]

I still think the based Alpha male Cyclops of the Utopian era will resonate better to a younger male audience. Bro had become mutant Han Solo

Not really. Wolverine has always been the Han Solo of the franchise. Wrongclops was more like Dark Side Luke. I can't think of anything Han Solo and Cyclops would have in common.

[Alan2099]

Disagree. It was Claremont's original plan for Maddie to originally be Jean reborn. Check out those few pages from XMen (Can't remember those issue numbers) from the mid eighties. I think it was a valid plan, until Layton, Shooter, and everyone else came up with an alternate plan to bring Jean back.
--jthree

I've seen Claremont state that his his only plans for Maddie and Cyclops were to have Cyclops retire and ride off into the sunset to live a normal life with a normal girl.

[whitecrown]

Disagree. It was Claremont's original plan for Maddie to originally be Jean reborn. Check out those few pages from XMen (Can't remember those issue numbers) from the mid eighties. I think it was a valid plan, until Layton, Shooter, and everyone else came up with an alternate plan to bring Jean back.
--jthree

What Claremont should have done was that when it was decided for Jean to be brought back, he should have agreed to help be involved rather than throw a hissy fit and threaten to quit. He did get briefly involved when he redrafted some of Byrne's pages to make the Phoenix not a villain but a benevolent force, but Claremont could have helped draft a plan where Maddie was revealed to be the original Jean in the cocoon who had been awakened already.

The other writers had zero interest in Maddie so they weren't bothered. Claremont could also have used this time to kill off Maddie in childbirth or have her lose the baby and leave Scott afterwards since the baby's birth occurred right when Jean was being brought back.

[Darth_Caedus]

Not really. Wolverine has always been the Han Solo of the franchise. Wrongclops was more like Dark Side Luke. I can't think of anything Han Solo and Cyclops would have in common.

Fraction's Cyclops was sexy, confident, flirtatious and a badass. Logan has never felt like Han Solo lol. He always felt like Quint from the Jaws to me

[whitecrown]

Fraction's Cyclops was sexy, confident, flirtatious and a badass. Logan has never felt like Han Solo lol

Fraction's Cyclops was a male writer insert and everything wrong with the series back then.

Wolverine has always been the most popular character of the series like Han Solo is with Star Wars. Both were the bad boys, rebellious and prone to breaking rules. The cool guy who everyone wanted to be like. Nerds may not have liked them, because they saw them as rivals, but general audiences flocked to them as Logan and Han carry the mass appeal. Both brusque with women and seemingly would have no chances with the lead heroine but ultimately prove to have a heart of gold (after some much-needed rehabilitation) and thus they change from unlikely contender who never believed in the cause to their ultimate champions. Han becomes a general of the Rebel Alliance and his last-minute return in ANH ensures the destruction of the Death Star. Much like Wolverine initially has zero interest in sticking with the X-Men but ultimately becomes Xavier's greatest success story. And both were never pegged as getting the girl but they both had so much chemistry with the female leads that they prove to be the central love story in their respective trilogies, even though Luke and Cyclops were initially given the roles of love interest.

Yet, another connection is that Harrison Ford's other most iconic character, Indiana Jones, got his own Logan sendoff with James Mangold.

Also, both have fuzzy best friends between Chewbacca and Nightcrawler. Both worked for the enemy governments (Empire and Canadian government/Weapon X) before feeling betrayed and abandoning those sides.

[Darth_Caedus]

Fraction's Cyclops was a male writer insert and everything wrong with the series back then.

Wolverine has always been the most popular character of the series like Han Solo is with Star Wars. Both were the bad boys, rebellious and prone to breaking rules. The cool guy who everyone wanted to be like. Nerds may not have liked them, because they saw them as rivals, but general audiences flocked to them as Logan and Han carry the mass appeal. Both brusque with women and seemingly would have no chances with the lead heroine but ultimately prove to have a heart of gold (after some much-needed rehabilitation) and thus they change from unlikely contender who never believed in the cause to their ultimate champions. Han becomes a general of the Rebel Alliance and his last-minute return in ANH ensures the destruction of the Death Star. Much like Wolverine initially has zero interest in sticking with the X-Men but ultimately becomes Xavier's greatest success story. And both were never pegged as getting the girl but they both had so much chemistry with the female leads that they prove to be the central love story in their respective trilogies, even though Luke and Cyclops were initially given the roles of love interest.

Yet, another connection is that Harrison Ford's other most iconic character, Indiana Jones, got his own Logan sendoff with James Mangold.

Also, both have fuzzy best friends between Chewbacca and Nightcrawler. Both worked for the enemy governments before feeling betrayed and abandoning those sides.

Han Solo is not the most popular Star wars character. Doesn't even come close. Darth Vader is. And I was talking about the comics.
Fraction's Cyclops is also one the best versions of the character ever.

[whitecrown]

Han Solo is not the most popular Star wars character. Doesn't even come close. Darth Vader is. And I was talking about the comics.
Fraction's Cyclops is also one the best versions of the character ever.

If you looked at audience polls from the 70s onward, Han Solo always ranked as #1. He's been ranked as the #3 greatest film character of all time as well (#1 is Indiana Jones btw). There are loads of examples in the link below and just in general if you Google it.

What is it that makes Han Solo “The Greatest Star Wars character of all time”?
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/co...greatest_star/



Han Solo Voted Greatest Star Wars Character By Empire Readers
https://www.empireonline.com/movies/...mpire-readers/

How Han Solo became the most popular 'Star Wars' character
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...3-pM8PKuyxCmX9

In 2003, the American Film Institute announced the results of its “100 Greatest Heroes & Villains” poll. Han Solo came in at No. 14 in the “heroes” ranking. Neither Luke nor Leia (both among the 400 nominated characters) got enough votes to crack the top 100.

That trend continued, as did the media’s obsession with pop-culture rankings. Whatever the list, Han was inevitably near the top and almost always ahead of Luke. In 2009, Han came in No. 2 behind Darth Vader on IGN’s “favorite Star Wars character” poll. (Luke was No. 7.) MTV’s “ultimate Star Wars poll” in 2011 also had Han in second place, this time behind Obi-Wan Kenobi and ahead of Darth Vader. (Luke was No. 6.) When Han returned to the big screen in 2015’s Star Wars: The Force Awakens, he placed No. 3 in Empire magazine’s 100 Greatest Movie Characters feature, ranked by reader votes. (Luke was No. 50.)

https://www.gamesradar.com/total-fil...rs-characters/

A few months ago, we asked you, dear readers, to vote for your favourite movie characters of all time, and the new issue of our sister publication Total Film magazine - out today - has the results!

The magazine has a full run-down of the 100 greatest movie characters of all time (as voted for by you), as well as 100 different covers to celebrate each one of them - yes, really - but you'll have to pick up a copy to find out the full list.

It's not all bad news though. We are going to reveal who your favourite Star Wars characters turned out to be because we're nice like that and we know how much you love Star Wars. A grand total of six Star Wars characters secured a place on the list of 100 greatest movie characters and poor old Luke Skywalker didn't even break the top three!

Han is #3. Leia is #10. Vader is #23. Luke is #47. Yoda is #83. Rey is #87.

[Darth_Caedus]

I also cannot understand why you hate 2000s Cyclops so much. Because he felt like he was a character of his own? Because he had one of the greatest character arcs in comic book history with a lasting impact? Because he had become one of Marvel's most popular characters? Because he wasn't written by a manchild like Claremont who couldn't comprehend the fact that Scott's a fictional character and that it was the editorial didn't agree with his own plans and visions?

[Darth_Caedus]

If you looked at audience polls from the 70s onward, Han Solo always ranked as #1. He's been ranked as the #3 greatest film character of all time as well (#1 is Indiana Jones btw). There are loads of examples in the link below and just in general if you Google it.

What is it that makes Han Solo “The Greatest Star Wars character of all time”?
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/co...greatest_star/



Han Solo Voted Greatest Star Wars Character By Empire Readers
https://www.empireonline.com/movies/...mpire-readers/

How Han Solo became the most popular 'Star Wars' character
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...3-pM8PKuyxCmX9


https://www.gamesradar.com/total-fil...rs-characters/

Han is #3. Leia is #10. Vader is #23. Luke is #47. Yoda is #83. Rey is #87.

Eh those lists aren't general at all

[whitecrown]

Also.
WOLVERINE FILLS IN FOR HAN SOLO IN THIS X-MEN/STAR WARS CROSSOVER
https://nerdist.com/article/wolverin...-talkin-toons/

A blog presenting covers to imaginary comic books featuring the greatest team ups that never happened... but should have!


No one has ever even mentioned Cyclops and Han Solo's names in the same sentence and for good reason. Honestly, half the time it comes across as what you really wish is that Cyclops was Wolverine. In which case, you're better off stanning Wolverine instead of trying to turn another character into him.

[Darth_Caedus]

Also.
WOLVERINE FILLS IN FOR HAN SOLO IN THIS X-MEN/STAR WARS CROSSOVER
https://nerdist.com/article/wolverin...-talkin-toons/

A blog presenting covers to imaginary comic books featuring the greatest team ups that never happened... but should have!


No one has ever even mentioned Cyclops and Han Solo's names in the same sentence and for good reason. Honestly, half the time it comes across as what you really wish is that Cyclops was Wolverine. In which case, you're better off stanning Wolverine instead of trying to turn another character into him.

That's fan fiction lmao