How does Amazing Spider-Man reclaim its mojo?

[ZeroBG82]

USM is outselling ASM by more than 2x.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/ulti...stseller-list/

With results like these, the question must be asked. How can ASM reclaim its mojo?

USM isn't even to issue 5 yet. If it's still selling like that at 20 or 24 that's an entirely different beast. For now, one imagines that Marvel is just thrilled to have two Spider-Man books that are top sellers in the market.

As much as I loathe everything Wells has done with Spider-Man, his book sells. Hickman selling more just means they have two huge titles. USM succeeding isn't going to impact ASM. ASM would have to tank to bring about that eventuality.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

USM isn't even to issue 5 yet. If it's still selling like that at 20 or 24 that's an entirely different beast. For now, one imagines that Marvel is just thrilled to have two Spider-Man books that are top sellers in the market.

As much as I loathe everything Wells has done with Spider-Man, his book sells. Hickman selling more just means they have two huge titles. USM succeeding isn't going to impact ASM. ASM would have to tank to bring about that eventuality.

That's not how investors think.

They're going to want to know why Marvel is leaving money on the table with ASM.

[Morgoth]

The biggest impact I can see might happen for now is them completely getting rid of Paul and reunite Peter with MJ by the end of Wells run (basically undoing the entirety of it) or when the new creative team takes over.
I really doubt that's gonna be something else for a time being.

[Coop]

That's not how investors think.

They're going to want to know why Marvel is leaving money on the table with ASM.

I hate the current ASM situation but I don't think investors at Disney are concerned with the amount of money Amazing or Ultimate Spider-Man bring in.

The comics house is a low cost IP generator. Creating material to adapt and characters to license. Even if USM is selling 500k units a month that's small potatoes. And that seems a reach imo.

[Lifetap]

I think investors at Disney could not care less comic book sales. They probably aren't even a consideration when it comes to business strategy with Disney as a decent movie probably makes more profit than the entire division on a given year. I also don't think they believe them to be idea mills for the stuff they actually care about either. It seems these days most media outside comics aren't really using stories from comics beyond there high level concepts. Like you could make the argument that No Way Home follows XYZ story line from the comics, but is it really that much of a stretch for a writer to independently come up with a story of 'Peter had his identity revealed last movie, this movie he goes to his wizard friend to fix it and things don't work out'.

I would say there are just a footnote on the business so they can keep the IPs in house as the value in the characters isn't in the stories it is in the merchandise.

[Kevinroc]

The biggest impact I can see might happen for now is them completely getting rid of Paul and reunite Peter with MJ by the end of Wells run (basically undoing the entirety of it) or when the new creative team takes over.
I really doubt that's gonna be something else for a time being.

This is basically what I've been expecting, and I wonder if that's going to be enough to help ASM recover its mojo. It'll basically put everyone back to where Wells inherited them.

[Tuck]

This is basically what I've been expecting, and I wonder if that's going to be enough to help ASM recover its mojo. It'll basically put everyone back to where Wells inherited them.

People were already losing interest in the Spencer run in its back half. And Beyond wasn't about Peter.

So, readers have been down on the book since before Covid.

[TinkerSpider]

I think investors at Disney could not care less comic book sales. They probably aren't even a consideration when it comes to business strategy with Disney as a decent movie probably makes more profit than the entire division on a given year. I also don't think they believe them to be idea mills for the stuff they actually care about either. It seems these days most media outside comics aren't really using stories from comics beyond there high level concepts. Like you could make the argument that No Way Home follows XYZ story line from the comics, but is it really that much of a stretch for a writer to independently come up with a story of 'Peter had his identity revealed last movie, this movie he goes to his wizard friend to fix it and things don't work out'.

I would say there are just a footnote on the business so they can keep the IPs in house as the value in the characters isn't in the stories it is in the merchandise.

I agree investors don't care at that granular a level.

But Dan Buckley, as Marvel Publisher and now sole president of Marvel Entertainment (co-president Rob Steffens was let go in 2023 when Ike Perlmutter was laid off), cares. Dan's job security is based in a large part on increasing sales and profits for the comic publishing business.

Kevin Feige, now Dan's sole boss, cares. Kevin has to defend the numbers his division brings in to his bosses, and the comic books are very much a line on his P&L.

Alan Bergman, who is Kevin's Feige's boss, cares. Alan has to defend his division's numbers to Bob Iger to keep his job.

Bob has much bigger fish to fry right now, as does Disney's board. But overall Disney doesn't like leaving money on the table, each division has to defend its own P&L, and Disney is one of the most analytics driven and number crunching media companies around.

Point is, it's not going to go unnoticed.

People were already losing interest in the Spencer run in its back half. And Beyond wasn't about Peter.

So, readers have been down on the book since before Covid.

I'd say much longer than that. Spencer provided a bump, but just a bump.

[RJT]

People were already losing interest in the Spencer run in its back half. And Beyond wasn't about Peter.

So, readers have been down on the book since before Covid.

Yet readers have kept it as one of the top-selling books in the industry.

Stop confusing your little bubble with the wider world.

[Frontier]

USM is outselling ASM by more than 2x.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/ulti...stseller-list/

With results like these, the question must be asked. How can ASM reclaim its mojo?

Relaunch with a new creative team?

[Tuck]

Stop confusing your little bubble with the wider world.

Relax.

Plenty of the people complaining about the current run are buying it. It's an oddity of comics. The expressed level of dislike is clearly high on the Wells run.

[Garlador]

Relax.

Plenty of the people complaining about the current run are buying it. It's an oddity of comics. The expressed level of dislike is clearly high on the Wells run.

That’s the Catch-22 as a fan. You aren’t permitted to complain if you haven’t bought and read it. But then you buying it means they don’t care that you criticize it.

[bob.schoonover]

I agree investors don't care at that granular a level.

But Dan Buckley, as Marvel Publisher and now sole president of Marvel Entertainment (co-president Rob Steffens was let go in 2023 when Ike Perlmutter was laid off), cares. Dan's job security is based in a large part on increasing sales and profits for the comic publishing business.

SNIP

I think it's worth stopping your list here just to say, Dan Buckley can probably say something like, "We just introduced the Ultimate line, which is averaging (just to pull a number out) over 90K sales per title in the first few months with little to no loss in sales to our main line titles" as a true statement that kind of obviates the rest of the sales-based inquiries discussed here. The people above him, as you say, care about sales/profits in the aggregate, and probably believe that they pay Dan to worry about the more granular issues. That's not to say Buckley shouldn't or doesn't care about ASM sales and the general direction of the title, but it's just to say that right now, Hickman's Ultimates relaunch probably actually provides Buckley more cover from above, not downward pressure on ASM.

[TinkerSpider]

I think it's worth stopping your list here just to say, Dan Buckley can probably say something like, "We just introduced the Ultimate line, which is averaging (just to pull a number out) over 90K sales per title in the first few months with little to no loss in sales to our main line titles" as a true statement that kind of obviates the rest of the sales-based inquiries discussed here. The people above him, as you say, care about sales/profits in the aggregate, and probably believe that they pay Dan to worry about the more granular issues. That's not to say Buckley shouldn't or doesn't care about ASM sales and the general direction of the title, but it's just to say that right now, Hickman's Ultimates relaunch probably actually provides Buckley more cover from above, not downward pressure on ASM.

And then Dan gets asked why the other books aren't perfoming up to the same level.

He actually has less cover than he did when ASM was selling neck and neck with Batman, because at least then there wasn't money being left on the table.

Now there is.

[bob.schoonover]

And then Dan gets asked why the other books aren't perfoming up to the same level.

He actually has less cover than he did when ASM was selling neck and neck with Batman, because at least then there wasn't money being left on the table.

Now there is.

You think the question would be "Why is a book on it's 48th issue selling less well than an issue written by a superstar writer as part of a new publishing initiative?" That's . . . not a serious question. ASM under Wells has sold at a reliably high level twice a month for two years. There's little evidence that sales on ASM have dropped in any meaningful manner (and more to the point, Wells is probably leaving in the next 6 months and there will be a relaunch in the near future, so even if sales have dipped a bit, some form of change is already coming soon) or out of the natural attrition that happens with every comic book run of any reasonable length of time. Dan Buckley is probably getting more comments from above about telling contractors to stop revealing details of internal decision making in podcast interviews than he is about ASM sales. This Ultimate Universe is brand new and there is a presumption in all of these questions that these great sales on USM will sustain indefinitely despite the entire history of comic runs that show that there is steady attrition in a title's sales until some sort of event or stunt re-boosts them, then they continue dropping, wash, rinse, repeat. It is far more likely that USM is at more like a multiple of 1.2-1.5 in 4 months than that it's still at 2. Not because of anything about Wells or Hickman, but just because of how attrition goes historically.

The whole Ultimate Universe is leading towards a confrontation with The Maker in about a year and a half. After that big event, are we sure Hickman stays on USM? The Marvel brain trust knows more about what's going to happen soon (how long is Hickman staying on, what happens after USM 20, etc.) than we do and have to take a long view about their properties. That's the risk Dan Buckley, Nick Lowe, etc. have to keep in mind when they see these USM sales figures, that USM sales are great but more volatile because something big will happen soon. It'd be incredibly risky to the point of stupidity to change up ASM because of USM before they even know if USM can keep its sales up with any other writer on it.