Controversial Spider-Man Opinions

[Kevinroc]

I mean isnt OMD basically a convoluted divorce

It's a convoluted annulment because "divorce" was a dirty word that would make Peter seem old.

And then the whole thing made Peter seem old anyway.

[wleakr]

Again, it is a myth that the marriage was an editorial mandate.

I posted the link here at least twice. Fans asked Stan and Shooter at a Con if they will marry Peter and MJ, the rest of the audience cheered, and Marvel got the idea from there.

So the idea came from the bottom-up. It was Marvel answering to fan demand - total opposite of OMD.

If Jim Shooter is pushing on you (David Michelinie) to get the characters married, even to the point of re-writing the plot of the actual marraige issue, how is that not an "editorial mandate?"

No one minds when editorial "interference" goes in their favor!

[TinkerSpider]

If Jim Shooter is pushing on you (David Michelinie) to get the characters married, even to the point of re-writing the plot of the actual marraige issue, how is that not an "editorial mandate?"

No one minds when editorial "interference" goes in their favor!

By this definition - an editor determining a title's direction - much of Marvel's history is "editorial interference." We're seeing X-Men go through it right now. Are X-Men fans not supposed to voice their opinions?

But let's say editorial interference in and of itself is automatically "bad" and wholly ignoring whether the interfered with stories have value or not. Why do two creative wrongs make a right?

Why does one excuse the other?

And regardless: “If editorial interference is acceptable for the wedding, then it must be acceptable for OMD” is an “affirming the consequence” logical fallacy; claiming that marriage fans are being hypocrites because they accept editorial interference in one case but not the other is an example of a “tu quoque” logical fallacy.

[Mister Mets]

Again, it is a myth that the marriage was an editorial mandate.

I posted the link here at least twice. Fans asked Stan and Shooter at a Con if they will marry Peter and MJ, the rest of the audience cheered, and Marvel got the idea from there.

So the idea came from the bottom-up. It was Marvel answering to fan demand - total opposite of OMD.

The moment editors tell writers what to do it's editorially driven.

That's part of what it means to be editorially-driven. It's not like this is the direction of the story selected by Tom DeFalco, Peter David and Len Kaminski, the people writing Spider-Man comics when the decision was made.

Within the context of the comic, stuff happens that is due to directors David Michelinie is given for his fourth issue of Amazing Spider-Man (technically it's his fifth- he had a fill-in with the second half of a Black Cat two-parter in 1980.)

There are various storytelling decisions that would not occur if the writers guided everything. The entire engagement is covered in one annual. Peter's coworkers celebrate it before Aunt May and Aunt Anna learn about it. The guy who started his run on the series with the proposal issue sure as hell knew what editorial wanted.

It's fine to argue that editors made the right call listening to fans, but it was an editorial mandate.

[Frontier]

I like Peter and MJ as parents and reading about their kids but I don't think the 616 versions would benefit from having a kid and that's seeing how much other ongoing Superhero narratives have to balance and work around the kid characters at times.

It works in, say, RYV and Ultimate because it was designed from the get-go in a way to incorporate the kid but even if they brought back the marriage I don't think working in a kid would work.

[marhawkman]

I mean isnt OMD basically a convoluted divorce

No, it's a way of destroying continuity, and ruining the entire Marvel universe by extension.

[marhawkman]

If Jim Shooter is pushing on you (David Michelinie) to get the characters married, even to the point of re-writing the plot of the actual marraige issue, how is that not an "editorial mandate?"

No one minds when editorial "interference" goes in their favor!

Was Jim Shooter the guy who decided to have Titania marry Absorbing Man?

THAT dates Pete as much as his own marriage! 'cause Pete met Titania before she even met Absorbing Man.

[wleakr]

And regardless: “If editorial interference is acceptable for the wedding, then it must be acceptable for OMD” is an “affirming the consequence” logical fallacy; claiming that marriage fans are being hypocrites because they accept editorial interference in one case but not the other is an example of a “tu quoque” logical fallacy.

Dang it! I thought I nailed that one - I thought it was the "holier than thou" fallacy!

I'm gonna get one these right eventually!

[Lifetap]

There seems to be a fallacy for everything these days. It seems like any evidence/opinion at all can be put into some fallacy bucket if you squint hard enough.

[TinkerSpider]

There seems to be a fallacy for everything these days. It seems like any evidence/opinion at all can be put into some fallacy bucket if you squint hard enough.

It’s more that thanks to social media and the like, fallacious arguments are amplified and multiplied. And it feels like fewer and fewer people are educated how to recognize fallacies.

In my opinion. But not sure how controversial it is.

My controversial opinion is Marvel should just give up their pretense of having a unified continuity, admit it’s too constricting and they are only paying lip service to it anyway by insisiting continuity matters but then treating their characters as toys, and publish year long or so arcs set at any point in Peter Parker’s life, giving artists and writers freedom to experiment and be creative.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

If Jim Shooter is pushing on you (David Michelinie) to get the characters married, even to the point of re-writing the plot of the actual marraige issue, how is that not an "editorial mandate?"

No one minds when editorial "interference" goes in their favor!

If the fans demanded it, then that is Editorial listening to fan response.

Literally the opposite of OMD and the current run. It doesn't get any more polar opposite than that.

This isn't hard.

It's fine to argue that editors made the right call listening to fans, but it was an editorial mandate.

This is just semantics.

[wleakr]

If the fans demanded it, then that is Editorial listening to fan response.

Literally the opposite of OMD and the current run. It doesn't get any more polar opposite than that.

This isn't hard.

There were no fans "demanding" it.

The letter pages at that time were not filled with correspondence talking about "When will Peter & MJ get married?" "Please make that happen NOW!"

Marvel revealed their plan, following what Stan was doing in the strip, to the fanbase, and yes, some were excited for it. But it wasn't Marvel filling a demand.

And IMHO, Stan was only doing it to bring a spark to the newspaper comic strip.

[Xix25]

I mean if the fans were excited about it then there was clearly an unspoken demand. I don't see why people are being so intentionally obtuse about this and trying to twist facts for no reason. This is about controversial fan opinions, not lying about the past history.

[Android 17]

- Still think it would've been more effective if Gwen Stacy stayed dead dead. No multiverse, no Spider-Gwen, just a loving but painful memory for Peter.

- I know people love the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon, but God I loathed the designs and the look of the characters.

- I would love an animated series with maturity akin to the PS games with a grown Peter dealing with rent, marital life with MJ, getting older and protecting the city. Enough of the high school shit.

[Xix25]

- Still think it would've been more effective if Gwen Stacy stayed dead dead. No multiverse, no Spider-Gwen, just a loving but painful memory for Peter.

- I know people love the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon, but God I loathed the designs and the look of the characters.

- I would love an animated series with maturity akin to the PS games with a grown Peter dealing with rent, marital life with MJ, getting older and protecting the city. Enough of the high school shit.

The last of this sounds eerily similar to the 90s TAS series. Hopefully we get a continuation like X-Men 97.