________ was a great idea that got completely out of control.

[DrNewGod]

Marvel's Khoshu. Moon Knight was all kinds of cool, partially because where his powers came from (if he had any) was ambiguous. Then, the source grew a beak and started talking

[CaptainEurope]

Peter Parker having a clone.

[Riv86672]

Peter Parker having a clone.

^^^I would add “the spider-verse” and “totems” but, those weren’t great ideas to begin with.

The Symbiote suit though, was a great idea.
Then came Venom, who I wasn’t in love w. but didn’t hate. Then Carnage.
And then Marvel was off to the milk this idea for all it’s worth till the poor cow drops from exhaustion Olympics.

[useridgoeshere]

Sticking with Marvel, I'll say Phoenix and Days of Future Past.

[Dalak]

To switch things up a bit: There was a Crisis on Infinite Earths way way back in the 1980's.


Then I bring up a term I have grown to detest: Retcon.

[DrNewGod]

Batman having a partner

[Scott Taylor]

TDKR and Batman being able to "prepare" to take on someone like Superman.

Incidentally, where did the term "Dark Knight" originate with Batman, was it Miller?

[godisawesome]

Reboots - Its a great idea when applied creatively with concern for detail and awareness of the mythos you're dealing with, but tends to struggle once executive-types start to treat it as a market tactic. It *can* still be a great idea, but you sure as hell had better have the right mix of wisdom about prior iterations of an IP and new ideas about how to present it. The second dudes who don't care about the mythos start seeing it as something they can use to make shareholders happy for a while, that's a problem.

"Ben Solo" - Kylo Ren was a great, eerily prescient villain of a supporting character with a great actor, well-earned hatred from much of the audience and the main heroes, and strong potential to have internal conflict and a sympathetic backstory... but LFL and Rian Johnson went completely crazy insisting he was already Ben Solo, a sympathetic, compellingly conflicted protagonist, giving in to a mix of sexism, racism, elitism, and hypocrisy to make him a blackhole sucking up all the attention and dooming the story of the ST.

Formula - The general idea that common, consistent tropes, plots, and conflicts can make a strong, consistent series of stories is not wrong... but the idea that nothing should ever break from some arbitrary boundaries is bad. Examples: Jon Favreau's belief that The Mandalorian couldn't grow into something more epic and character focused in Season 3, and how Spider-Man's current editorial refuses to acknowledge the mythos demands ambition and evolution.

Auteur Directors - "Auteur" should be a title awarded to a director whenever they are given the power and responsibility to define a film from beginning to end and it works... but should not be an immediate philosophy of filmmaking raised up as sacrosanct or idealized as "true" artistry. *Sometimes* a director has a good idea for a story, cast, and final cut of a film... but often, they still need someone to cooperate with, give them feedback, and point out their flaws.

[Riv86672]

Incidentally, where did the term "Dark Knight" originate with Batman, was it Miller?

^^^Batman Comics #1, Spring 1940.

[The Darknight Detective]

^^^Batman Comics #1, Spring 1940.

It was rarely used pre-Miller, though. "Darknight" was used far more extensively than "Dark Night" until TDKR.

[Kirby101]

Mutants at Marvel.

[The Darknight Detective]

Mutants at Marvel.

I never had a problem with that, but equating their plight with real-life racism never made sense to me. Being wary of people with powers isn't the same thing as not liking someone's skin color or religion.

[useridgoeshere]

Joker beat up Batman? I like it.

I never had a problem with that, but equating their plight with real-life racism never made sense to me. Being wary of people with powers isn't the same thing as not liking someone's skin color or religion.

Disagree. Not to derail the thread, but fearing and hating a whole class of people for the actions of a few in that group is analogous to what happens today. The fear people have of real world minorities is just as rational to them as a fear of Beak is to you. Since most Mutants are less powerful than a human with a weapon, it's not really rational to hate and fear all Mutants. Hundreds of thousands Mutants on Krakoa were shown as being pretty much useless in a fight or when trying to survive.

[MRP]

I never had a problem with that, but equating their plight with real-life racism never made sense to me. Being wary of people with powers isn't the same thing as not liking someone's skin color or religion.

The metaphor isn't comparing powers to skin color or religion, it's comparing how humans react to the "other" and any difference could have stood in as the "other" for the metaphor to work. The metaphor doesn't equate the power to skin color or religion, it equates human's reaction to that which is different or other. It's one of the core motifs of sci-fi, using metaphors to highlight human behavior and reactions to things to shine a spotlight on the behavior. The link isn't between the new thing in the story and the thing in the current world, the link is in the human behavior reacting to it. The thing in the new story can be anything as long as the spotlight is on the behavior reacting to it. It's just kind of the way metaphors work.

-M

[MRP]

My entry-continuity and shared universes.

Continuity and a shared universe can be beneficial when they are drawn from stories and used to link them together into something greater than the sum of the parts and trace how the characters of the stories grow and change as they face conflicts and the consequences of those conflicts, but when continuity and the shred universe become the point in and of themselves and replace the telling of stories about the characters in which they face conflicts, grow and change as a result of those conflicts imposing a static status quo in which there can be no real growth or change in the characters, it undermines and sabotages the credibility of those characters and stories into a repetitive stagnant formula. I prefer stories about Batman and Superman interacting together in a world they share rather than stories about the DC Universe in which Superman and Batman happen to interact (or replace Supes/Bats DCU with Cap, Iron Man, and MU). It's why most lines that try to start out by forging a shared universe as the heart of the line fizzle out, people stay because they care about the characters, not about the universe, and the focus on the shared universe and the need to maintain or retcon or reboot, or refresh continuity instead of the focus on telling good stories about these characters who happen to inhabit a world has made those universe and those lines of books poorer for it.

-M