Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2024

[starduck]

I guess if you say by inches then I guess she has improved otherwise it was bust as a modern take on Jean. The whole relationship with her 60 year old son as "mommy" was weird. She was mostly swirling with someone's wife or someone's mom or love traingle. Her fight with Bastion and and Sinister was meh. Phoenix only helped her to resurrect and beat Sinister and not even Bastion. Then she faded again and again as usual. Its forgettable but memmable I guess. The show was so rushed I didn't cared characters. Not even my favorite characters Also on Beau books the new episode has become evident Jean is not more powerful than Magneto.

Yeah, phoenix felt like a plot device to get rid of the sentinels. Magneto is clearly the writer's favorite

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Im really finding myself loving Jean Grey. Flaws and all. Great glow-up compared to OG series and movies imo.

[starduck]

Im really finding myself loving Jean Grey. Flaws and all. Great glow-up compared to OG series and movies imo.

Sure she's definitely better than TAS Jean and most of the FoX-men versions of her

[Phoenixx9]

It also lowkey confirmed when the Maddie/Jean switch likely happened. spoilers:

Jean being able to turn into Phoenix means that she was Phoenix in season 3, not Madelyne. The season 4 finale is really the only tim that fits for the switch to have occurred

end of spoilers

Yes, this is what I mentioned a good 1+ year ago when this discussion was first happening.

[brightnessatmidnight]

Anyone else think that Jean's speech to Sinister was basically taken from Morrison when Jean confronts Emma over the psychic affair?

[whitecrown]

I thought her speech could have been more directly taken from this.

[Havok83]

IMO, there are two ways to look at and interpet Jean/Hope

spoilers:

1. Hope is Jean's daughter. She imprinting the Phoenix on Louise is what caused her to get pregnant and eventually give birth to the baby that would become Hope. Jean is her mother much like God is Jesus' father. 2. Hope is Jean reincarnated. Hope was created/born at a time when Jean was dead. She used a Phoenix fragment to imprint herself on Louise which eventually grew up to be Hope. Ultimately Hope's death burns her back to being a Phoenix fragment which is reabsorbed and becomes part of Jean/Phoenix with her mission finally fulfilled. Jean and Hope are considered the same being much like God and Jesus are considered to be the same

end of spoilers

I think both outlooks work for me

[Mercury]

IMO, there are two ways to look at and interpet Jean/Hope

spoilers:

1. Hope is Jean's daughter. She imprinting the Phoenix on Louise is what caused her to get pregnant and eventually give birth to the baby that would become Hope. Jean is her mother much like God is Jesus' father. 2. Hope is Jean reincarnated. Hope was created/born at a time when Jean was dead. She used a Phoenix fragment to imprint herself on Louise which eventually grew up to be Hope. Ultimately Hope's death burns her back to being a Phoenix fragment which is reabsorbed and becomes part of Jean/Phoenix with her mission finally fulfilled. Jean and Hope are considered the same being much like God and Jesus are considered to be the same

end of spoilers

I think both outlooks work for me

I actually love this and that the final story can be interpreted either way.

[brightnessatmidnight]

Hope being a Phoenix fragment has been theorized for ages, and people are only now shocked at the implications of that.

BTW

Havok83 I think both interpretations are simultaneously true.

“God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16

The second interpretation allows us some distance because...oh it's just a Phoenix fragment...but the first interpretation is what's causing emotional reactions as that fragment actually became a "character" or "person".

[whitecrown]

Is Hope's outcome permanent or do you guys think it's temporary?

[Darth_Caedus]

Is Hope's outcome permanent or do you guys think it's temporary?

Imo she's served her purpose, it's to let go of all these Jean copies and focus on the OG

[3aMeHa]

IMO, there are two ways to look at and interpet Jean/Hope

spoilers:

1. Hope is Jean's daughter. She imprinting the Phoenix on Louise is what caused her to get pregnant and eventually give birth to the baby that would become Hope. Jean is her mother much like God is Jesus' father. 2. Hope is Jean reincarnated. Hope was created/born at a time when Jean was dead. She used a Phoenix fragment to imprint herself on Louise which eventually grew up to be Hope. Ultimately Hope's death burns her back to being a Phoenix fragment which is reabsorbed and becomes part of Jean/Phoenix with her mission finally fulfilled. Jean and Hope are considered the same being much like God and Jesus are considered to be the same

end of spoilers

I think both outlooks work for me

For some reason this all reminds me of another famous plot twist "Luke, I am your father!"

[Havok83]

Is Hope's outcome permanent or do you guys think it's temporary?

I mean a future regime could bring her back but I think Gillen's intent here is to be final. Her arc is over ad it doesnt feel like it would make sense to bring her back anytime soon. For all intents and purposes she is a part of Jean now much like madelyne was at the end of Inferno. I think a big reason for this is to get the resurrections off the table as that truly signifies the end of the Krakoa era. Id like to think that a piece of Hope's Phoenix powers were what made her unique in being able to perfect the resurrections in a way that no other mutant could. She purified Sinister's taint and that was something only she could do

[whitecrown]

Imo she's served her purpose, it's to let go of all these Jean copies and focus on the OG

Too many copies for my taste but I finally started to like Hope with this new revelation about her only for them to take her off the playing field immediately.

[whitecrown]

I mean a future regime could bring her back but I think Gillen's intent here is to be final. Her arc is over ad it doesnt feel like it would make sense to bring her back anytime soon. For all intents and purposes she is a part of Jean now much like madelyne was at the end of Inferno. I think a big reason for this is to get the resurrections off the table as that truly signifies the end of the Krakoa era. Id like to think that a piece of Hope's Phoenix powers were what made her unique in being able to perfect the resurrections in a way that no other mutant could. She purified Sinister's taint and that was something only she could do

She's a hard character to position as well because of her unique status and abilities. And she doesn't have the longevity of Rachel or the established character connections that Rachel has, and even Rachel is notoriously difficult to fit into the X-Men mythos. So I guess it makes sense for now and I like your explanation that Hope being gone means no more perfect resurrection process. That really needed to go.