X-Men '97 Episode 10 - Tolerance is Extinction Part 3 *spoilers*

[Frontier]

I didn´t see this as Magneto caring more for Rogue,he just has spend more time with her than with his children so she is more clear in his memory, also the children are kind of hidden for "spoilers" I guess but all of them are dear to him and that´s why they are on the boat but they also represent his own sense of lack of family and isolation from bassically everybody.

At this point Wanda and Pietro are on Operation Galactic Storm, off world with other avengers acording to Beau but before that they were not close to Magneto, they discovered their relationship when Magneto was looking for Magda but they pretty much stayed out of Magneto´s bussines and he from theirs, except for that time Pietro was captured by the phalanx and Magneto helped to rescue him along with Forge and Beast.We don´t know how is his relationship with Lorna but it´s probable it´s similar.

So he has adult children who grew up without him, that don´t need him now and don´t expect to be family to him, his first wife Magda ran away from him and keep his children hidden from him, his parents and sister were killed off and only he survived, his first child died in a fire and while he cares for Rogue he knows she doens´t care for him as he does for her, everything that happened on Genosha, kidnapping, torture and Charles´s attack was destroying his psyche.

I found this very interesting, for the first time Magneto was talking about his trauma in relation to his lack of family, his lack of bonds to humanity in general, all he had were ghosts and now he was losing them as well given he could not remember his parents faces, he is still grieving the families he lost and he sees the X-men as Charles family, he took on the mantle of leader of the X-men as a favor for charles, not because he expected to be accepted by the X-men as part of their own, not his own, it was until Charles let him known that if he truly wanted to he could be part of their family too and this healed him enough to remember his name and what he had to do to save his new found family and the world.

Loved this moment and how the theme of found family applies to Magneto as well. This theme has been tackled in comics as well but not as directly as this chapter did and it was really well done by the writers, because it´s precisely this lack of bonds, this sense of isolation coupled with survivors guilt the things that had keep Magneto in the past from healing from his past trauma.

Still a little too much Rogueneto for my tastes.

[Andru]

I think this show is heavily predatory. Magneto and Rogue un the same fashion. It's why I said I don't think the gay community should be looking at this show for representation.

There's other context to this. A small but very telling choice about the tone of the show is Rogues butt (OK �� OK hear me out I have a point beyond just anger over taking Rogue from cakes to pancakes) . Before the show there was heavy emphasis by the show that Rogue would no longer br viewed through a male gaze because it was demeaning. But then you look at the show you see Magneto chained up in his underwear, professor x calling himself a pet, Gambit in a crop top, even Logan in the shower. There was a heavy emphasis on objectifying and sexualizing the male characters for a gay audience. So the show itself has been emphasizing taking straight male characters and turning them into the
love interests with queer undertones. I don't think we disagree about the show having those undertones correct?

Now let's look at Morph through a writers pen. There's several tropes angry writers employ. Many write the high school bully as secretly gay as a coping mechanism. Others write themselves into female characters. But one trope we see here that I hate is they write themselves as the friend who uses their closeness to try to develop intimacy. The fact Morph kept Morphing into Sabertooth or Jean is Morphs way of trying to force intimacy. And if we saw a guy use a friendship with a girl and routinely change himself to fit what the girl wants we would view him as creepy

I agree that there is quite a bit of fan service for the gays (which I appreciate!)...but none of it is predatory. We are taking a queer innocent crush and turning it into something it is not. It's actually quite offensive, and something the queer community is unfortunately very used to dealing with.

At no single point has Morph taken advantage of, manipulated, or "preyed" on Logan. Logan's a smart guy, I am sure he senses Morph's feelings for him...

I also do not understand how the Magneto & Rogue situation is predatory. Because he's older than her? They were both presented as adults & both got what they wanted out of the situation.

[TheRealWashout]

Still a little too much Rogueneto for my tastes.

There's never enough for mine.

[Andru]

I was pretty much a sports guy in school and I will say there's no gayer place than a hetero lockerroom. But no that's not how the showers are. That's completely false



Inspiration sure. But look at that Superman cartoon as well. It's all anime just coded the same way that is causing issues from comics. You can't steak the visual style of anime as the competitor. That's just wrong

Same here. Maybe I have an odd relationship with my friends but Im not going up to them when they are naked and making jokes about pegging them nor would I expect them to do the same to me. That would make feel uncomfortable

I appreciate everyone has different life experiences, as they should...

But that doesn't mean that statement is "completely false".

The shit I saw and heard in the locker room, showers, on the bus to games...Morph's comments/actions couldn't be more innocent in comparison.

[Gripstir]

I agree that there is quite a bit of fan service for the gays (which I appreciate!)...but none of it is predatory. We are taking a queer innocent crush and turning it into something it is not. It's actually quite offensive, and something the queer community is unfortunately very used to dealing with.

At no single point has Morph taken advantage of, manipulated, or "preyed" on Logan. Logan's a smart guy, I am sure he senses Morph's feelings for him...

I also do not understand how the Magneto & Rogue situation is predatory. Because he's older than her? They were both presented as adults & both got what they wanted out of the situation.

Well I feel this isn't gay representation. Most gay people I meet are really nice. I'm trying to saying the writing of the character is the issue, not the character. Morph is constantly put in situations that are predatory. But this isn't exclusive to gay or queerness. Dudes who have gfs often have to be careful because there are lots of dudes who try to be friends with a girl with a bf, develop feelings and start using their position of trust to try to get closer and more intimate. The act itself is toxic, not Morph.

[anyajenkins]

I also do not understand how the Magneto & Rogue situation is predatory. Because he's older than her? They were both presented as adults & both got what they wanted out of the situation.

He was literally her teacher, when he came back he was literally her boss, his proposal was literally ‘I’ll give you a big promotion if you marry me.’ It was an ode to sexual harassment on a midsummer’s morning, lol.

[starduck]

Mystique dumping a young Rogue with Magneto also didn't make the relationship look so good either. I don't think they intended for it to look that way but well it can be interpreted that way with how it got presented

[Andru]

Well I feel this isn't gay representation. Most gay people I meet are really nice. I'm trying to saying the writing of the character is the issue, not the character. Morph is constantly put in situations that are predatory. But this isn't exclusive to gay or queerness. Dudes who have gfs often have to be careful because there are lots of dudes who try to be friends with a girl with a bf, develop feelings and start using their position of trust to try to get closer and more intimate. The act itself is toxic, not Morph.

Gay Representation? We are talking about Morph and his actions being predatory or not...

They developed a crush/romantic feelings for the only person who actually gives a damn about them. Did Logan ever appear uncomfortable or threatened by Morph's comments and/or actions?

Listen, if Morph was seducing Logan as Jean, I would 100% agree.

But morphing into Sabretooth for some rough housing to cheer Logan up, an innocent remark between two buds in a communal shower, & morphing into Jean to keep Logan hanging onto life...not toxic.

He was literally her teacher, when he came back he was literally her boss, his proposal was literally ‘I’ll give you a big promotion if you marry me.’ It was an ode to sexual harassment on a midsummer’s morning, lol.

More stretching & twisting...

Girl wanted some ass, and she got it. Good for her!

His offer was not a "promotion", it was an invitation to make a difference on a larger scale...together!

[Lucyinthesky]

Still a little too much Rogueneto for my tastes.

That´s understable and in fact I am pretty sure this is the reason why it was introduced, the writers wanted to create tension for Rogue and Gambit´s relationship that wasn´t the old tired Rogue´s powers don´t let them touch, Magneto in this case was like Belladona in the first series and at least he wasn´t married to Rogue, he was just a previous old flame for Rogue she could touch without consequences.

I am not a big fan of Rogueneto either, I very much prefer him to have an actual serious relationship with an interesting dynamic of it´s own, in fact I would love for the comics to tackle his relationship with Magda, she was pretty much the love of his life and his issues with humans have a lot to do with how their relationship ended abruptly, a lot was left unsaid between them and exploring that could be interesting, he´s had other relationships but she survived the camps alongside him, her rejecting him after losing their daughter hurt in a way no other relationship has ever done because he still loves her.

So I am no Rogueneto fan but I liked the way their friendship was tackled in the series, she was the only one close enough to him to tell him he should let the X-men trust him by his actions, not his words and he heard her and followed her advice and that is why he went with the UN to be judged, because he trusts her oppinion and judgment.

They felt like real friends there, friends that don´t have the baggage Charles has with him, it didn´t surprise me Rogue is still part of his memories and one of the first people she remembered besides his children, not in a romantic sense but more in a "connection to his humanity sense" because just like Rogue wanted a connection in which her powers were not an issue, Magneto wanted to be able to talk to someone without his past being an issue and with Rogue he has that, because she walked the same path for a while. I hope this makes sense.

More stretching & twisting...

Girl wanted some ass, and she got it. Good for her!

His offer was not a "promotion", it was an invitation to make a difference on a larger scale...together!

Agreed, Magneto wasn´t her teacher or her boss, or her parental figure or her employer, that was Mystique.

They were both adults in a relationship and when she wanted to break up things between them because she could not deal with her demons and his own he agreed, it was her idea to break up with him both times and he respected that. When he started directly fighting the X-men, she agreed to keep their relationship a secret because Magneto didn´t want her to be distrusted by her new family, the X-men, just because she used to have a relationship with him and on Genosha he just asked her if she wanted to begin a new relationship with him and let her decide for herself if she wanted or not. At no point Rogue didn´t get a choice, they both treated their old relationship in a mature way imo, which is refleshing compared to the forced drama plot points in comics usually use for this kind of situations but even in comics their relationship was similar.

[superjosh]

way way way random but when Bastion was first introduced people kept saying he sounded so familiar. Maybe this has been mentioned already but I finally figured it out... for myself at least, because it was driving me crazy. He's Barry from Archer lollll.

[Mormel]

I was not familiar with the voice actor (because I live under a rock) but he did great work here!

[superjosh]

I was not familiar with the voice actor (because I live under a rock) but he did great work here!

Not the same actor but Theo James is doing a very similar take. Like cadence and delivery. Their voices are pretty similar too.

[Mantis-Ray]

way way way random but when Bastion was first introduced people kept saying he sounded so familiar. Maybe this has been mentioned already but I finally figured it out... for myself at least, because it was driving me crazy. He's Barry from Archer lollll.

I thought he was DC Douglas at first, he and James have a very similar inflection and buttery smooth way of speaking.

[Gripstir]

Gay Representation? We are talking about Morph and his actions being predatory or not...

They developed a crush/romantic feelings for the only person who actually gives a damn about them. Did Logan ever appear uncomfortable or threatened by Morph's comments and/or actions?

Listen, if Morph was seducing Logan as Jean, I would 100% agree.

But morphing into Sabretooth for some rough housing to cheer Logan up, an innocent remark between two buds in a communal shower, & morphing into Jean to keep Logan hanging onto life...not toxic.



More stretching & twisting...

Girl wanted some ass, and she got it. Good for her!

His offer was not a "promotion", it was an invitation to make a difference on a larger scale...together!

My original point was that I don't think this show is good representation. It's more creepy than healthy.

[Andru]

My original point was that I don't think this show is good representation. It's more creepy than healthy.

Good or bad is subjective, but it is accurate representation...a queer person developing feelings for someone they cannot have & trying to navigate the situation. I, and I am sure many other queer people, can relate.

It is not creepy & it is not predatory. Adding mutant powers & soap opera story-telling...still nothing creepy or predatory here.