X-Men '97 Episode 10 - Tolerance is Extinction Part 3 *spoilers*

[Malachi]

I disagree, I believe their break up on EP 5 with them openly saying their feelings for the first time in a serious context is some of the best writting they have got lately, I have not seen their whole comics interactions but that moment before the ball at Genosha when he said he was going to be only a friend was awesome, he showed he wanted a compromise and he wasnt going to keep playing anymore waiting for her to decide and sort out her feelings, he loves her and he hopes she can understand he is no going anywhere and Rogue felt like if she didn´t had a complete relationship with him then they could never truly be together so why string Gambit around for a relationship she thoguht didn´t had a future?, her pov is understable given how touch starved she should feel at this point all of this was done with the intention of Rogue getting to the conclusion that relationships as deeper than skin which brings the whole pathos of their relationship to a whole new level.

He told the council IF she agreed, she would become a leader alonside him and then he would agree to becoming Genosha´s chancellor, he told the council and Rogue the same thing, IF she wanted, they COULD be together, If she didn´t then that would be it and yes, I agree he sometimes can be a jerk on purpose or not, I am sure he just wanted to be nice to Rogue preparing her coffe but didn´t mind teasing Gambit a little bit but the choice of being Genosha´s leader with him wasn´t done with a malicious intent and in the end Rogue like a good Scarlet O´Hara managed to break both Magnus and Remy´s hearts at the same time, I understand she did it to sort out her feelings for Magneto and Remy and decided for Remy, so I don´t believe she felt trapped at any time in those chapters. I dislike this view that Rogue is some kind of victim that can´t make her own decisions, she is way more interesting when she is making her decisions even when she knows someone is going to get hurt, that´s human, that´s understable and it´s part of what makes Rogue an interesting character.

I rewatched episode 5 today to se how it stands. Magneto is well aware about what he is doing the whole episode up until Rogue ends it.

He goads Gambit because he enjoys these little show offs. Either he likes the alpha dog part of it or he just likes having the upper hand. He has nothing to lose. Rogue is the one who is keeping a lid on their former connection and he knows Gambit is suffering because Gambit hides it badly. So he makes these little digs, knowing full well where the boundaries are.

The same way his Queen speech is leveraging the future and prosperity of a nation, and Rogues desire to help mutants, to make her accept his proposal this time since she didn’t agree to it before. It should also be said that his list of co-rulers is short. So his feelings aside, Rogue is pretty much it.

By laying it up like this to her he knows it will push her into his arms. He can touch her, maybe the only one who can, it’s not like she goes around testing that theory with everyone she meets, and he offers her the role as Queen of a nation. A haven for mutants, resting on her shoulders. He is happy with the old royal arrangement, she will come to love him over time.

She knows that by accepting this she is doing more than marrying him. She is taking on a people, her people, and its happiness after such misery. She knows full well that if she says yes to this there will be no easy divorces. But on the other hand, he can touch her.

She comes to Remy and gives him no choice. Aborting the relationship before it can start. Maybe she sees it as kindness, maybe she is desperate. What she does is she removes his choice. Much like Magneto more or less has done for her. It really hams up the tragedy.

Nico has an excellent point. The relationship is ended before it starts. We only get to see the relationship when it ends. Only then is it acknowledged in any form. So it’s really just baiting and trolling in their attempt to give us tragedy.

Like the couple who only kisses, holds hands, or any other sign of mutual affection right before the final pages of the book. It’s all built on innuendos and what if’s, it’s teased and built up in our heads. If we look at the actual work, there isn’t much. I think my biggest reason for buying it is that I conflate it with the comics, patching up the cracks with events that happened in another medium. If you take away episode 5 Romy was still only in the start up phase at best.

[anyajenkins]

Probably at least a cameo, since she was ‘mentioned’.

Agreed, Magneto wasn´t her teacher or her boss, or her parental figure or her employer, that was Mystique.

They were both adults in a relationship and when she wanted to break up things between them because she could not deal with her demons and his own he agreed, it was her idea to break up with him both times and he respected that. When he started directly fighting the X-men, she agreed to keep their relationship a secret because Magneto didn´t want her to be distrusted by her new family, the X-men, just because she used to have a relationship with him and on Genosha he just asked her if she wanted to begin a new relationship with him and let her decide for herself if she wanted or not. At no point Rogue didn´t get a choice, they both treated their old relationship in a mature way imo, which is refleshing compared to the forced drama plot points in comics usually use for this kind of situations but even in comics their relationship was similar.

..lol, what? Y’all going make me use the word literally too much again. He wasn’t her teacher? It’s literally (#1) in the dialogue of the show. She said Mystique took her to magneto hoping he could be a teacher or mentor to help her with her powers.

When he showed up at the mansion, it’s because Xavier left everything to him and he was the new boss/employer. He is literally (#2) called the boss by the other X-men and rogue herself literally (#3) calls him the boss in that coffee scene right before he dumps a bunch of sugar in her coffee and she gets depressed looking.

On the promotion, I will say that she does see it as more of a way to help more mutants on a wider scale, I’ll give you that, but it is still, objectively, a promotion. And it is tied to going back to him. When he announces that she’s going to rule with him (which he never mentioned or discussed with her before) she literally (#4) asks if he thinks that means they’re getting back together. He doesn’t say, ‘no I want you to rule with me because I respect your judgement and leadership skills.’ He says he’s not ashamed of his passion for her (note, in real life, the first option would still make the company lawyer’s head explode, because it would still be seen as harassment, but we are talking about plausible deniability in a cartoon here…) you said yourself, if she agreed, they would be together and she would ‘rule’ beside him, if she didn’t agree, she doesn’t. Technically that’s a choice, but it’s also literally (#5) quid pro quo sexual harassment since her ‘choice’ is get big, important job and marry him or don’t and that’s it. Come on, have none of you people had to sit through those trainings/seminars every year, lol?

You could argue that he wasn’t her parental figure, there’s that. And the writers probably didn’t mean to write that way entirely. I would think that some intent had to be there, though. Because it’s pointed that he’s ‘the boss’ more than once? Maybe Disney real bad at making everyone go to the yearly trainings, I dunno?

[NicoPony]

I do think Rogue felt cornered, otherwise she wouldn’t be yelling and angry with Magneto saying something along the lines of: “was this your plan all along?” She perceived his actions as manipulation, and look at that jerk’s smug face, he’s all smiling while she has her fit. A thousand times a jerk.

Mags is definitely going out of his way to one-up Gambit, even suggesting Remy’s plummet to his death should something happen to the plane while I guess Buckethead and Rogue will be fine since they can fly. The spoons of sugar was just the Lite version of Magneto calling the shots. Rogue’s expression and reactions says she wasn’t into it.

[Gripstir]

I do think Rogue felt cornered, otherwise she wouldn’t be yelling and angry with Magneto saying something along the lines of: “was this your plan all along?” She perceived his actions as manipulation, and look at that jerk’s smug face, he’s all smiling while she has her fit. A thousand times a jerk.

Mags is definitely going out of his way to one-up Gambit, even suggesting Remy’s plummet to his death should something happen to the plane while I guess Buckethead and Rogue will be fine since they can fly. The spoons of sugar was just the Lite version of Magneto calling the shots. Rogue’s expression and reactions says she wasn’t into it.

Which is why I've had thoughts about Beau calling Rogue "the mascot" while self identifying as Magneto. The constant one upping Gambit as well

[Lucyinthesky]

"I didn't know that there was history in the canon for that and so we talked about it and you know, it was the explanation of that that's not something that came about in this interaction. That was something that was there historically before Rogue and Gambit and you know, it's a revisiting of that. And then when you see the bits of for you know, the justification for why of like [Rogue and Magneto] can be more open and more for want of a better phrase human with each other than either of them can be with a lot of other people, it makes you know, it makes a huge amount of sense. In terms of like knowing that it would make some people very, very upset, um, or very sad uh that's kind of like that's when where you go , yeah this is going to drive a bunch of people crazy and that's going to be fun." - Matthew Waterson (Magneto) on Rogue and Magneto in X-Men 97

Hope X-men 97 team is having fun lol

So here´s my take:

I believe the issue is deeper than Gambit and Magneto teasing each other over Rogue and her being unsure of her feelings.

Rogue LOVES Gambit, it´s pretty obvious for every X-man they are in love, Nightcrawler just had to see his sister for 5 minutes before knowing they loved each other but Rogue doesn´t quite feels human despite loving Gambit. They were in a relationship, they just didn´t made it official as Gambit said on EP5. Rogue loves Gambit but she doesn´t feel quite human when she is with him because she fears to absorb his essence if she makes one mistake, she fears being the one responsible of killing the love of her life.



Magneto is an old flame who Rogue may have loved at some point but that was a long time ago, she could not deal with his demons and inner conflict and she feel she needed someone with no such emotional baggage and that´s why she ended thigns the first time.

She still feels physical attraction to him and she likes to be around him because he was the first person to help her see her powers didn´t have to be seen as a curse if she didn´t want to, that they were something she could enjoy about herself, she feels human around him because she doesn´t have to make sure to use layers and layers of clothes just to hold his hand but it´s obvious she doesn´t love him as she does Gambit. Magneto feels human around her because she knows his past and present and she is willing to see past that just to see him still as just a person.



Gambit and Rogue are like soul mates, battle friends and lovers of a lot of battles Rogue knows now that even if she can have a physical relationship with Erik she will never be happy with him because she doesn´t love him as she does Gambit. Some things are deeper than skin as Remy said and Magneto knows this, he didn´t protect them when he thought he was going to die just to make sure they survived Genosha´s attack so they would be able to save more mutants, he protected both of them because he felt responsible for them as their leader and because he knew Rogue would be broken hearted if Gambit died. Gambit understood this and Rogue as well.




This is why I just see this as a transitional plot point that leads to Gambit and Rogue marriage, that´s all.

[Andru]

I view it the same way I view scenes in 80s comedies. Granted I've only see clips online but highly problematic stuff was shown as fine and in some cases shown the girls fall in love with the nerds for stuff. So being relatable or even showing Logan being comfortable doesn't change it being wrong from a writing perspective.

I honestly cannot follow your logic here...just seems like you're put off by Morph crushing on Logan.

You have used words such as "creepy", "predatory", "toxic", and now "problematic" whilst discussing a queer character falling for a straight character. I just caution you to be more careful with your word selection, especially since nothing presented to the audience fits that category.

Clips of 80's comedies, "hynpo", & James Charles are not relatable to this...square pegs in round holes.

[Gripstir]

I honestly cannot follow your logic here...just seems like you're put off by Morph crushing on Logan.

You have used words such as "creepy", "predatory", "toxic", and now "problematic" whilst discussing a queer character falling for a straight character. I just caution you to be more careful with your word selection, especially since nothing presented to the audience fits that category.

Clips of 80's comedies, "hynpo", & James Charles are not relatable to this...square pegs in round holes.

It makes sense if you view it that I'm talking about writing tropes not characters and the positions they are put in and the apathy to those writing choices

[Primal Slayer]

DeMayo also said Gambit & Rogue were ‘the shows’ OTP’ and look how that turned out. I trust DeMayo all of zero with his twitter nonsense.

Nothing that happened in this show says otherwise about Gambit/Rogue being OTP

I really think the show was done all wrong. You could have made it a direct continuation with accurate characterization and made it kid friendly and hired the OG crew, but nooooooo. We have to pander to the people who nitpick that the first series didn't have blood and Wolverine carving people up. And terrible departures from canon that can only come from the idea that the writers didn't watch the first series. It disgusts me that people are so entitled that they would cut off new kids from enjoying a show because you want the show they got into as a kid Invinciblified. Truly selfish individuals. The first series managed to make it mature and adults could fully enjoy it.

Are we watching the same show? Esp trying to say that they didnt watch the OG....are we REALLY watching the same show?

And no one is cutting kids off from enjoying a show. They can still watch it. Kids arent stupid and watch MCU movies and Harry Potter. This isnt rated R. Its PG-13.

Not to mention that we've had how many X-men animated series "aimed" at children? Remind of that.

[smokey78]

Nothing that happened in this show says otherwise about Gambit/Rogue being OTP
.

What's wild is the new Romy fans who didn't watch the OG series or read comics before this. How?

Since we have talks about endgame wedding. I hope we at least see some scenes for OTP. At this point dunno if the general audience would even know they were endgame? We would need a Rogue and Gambit series 2018 type scenario . (is that the future plan?)

[Gnostic]

Wasn't Magneto suppose to have telepathic resistance in the early comics? If so, that seems to be adapted here as Charles seemed to have a tough time hijacking his mind.

[Darth_Caedus]

Wasn't Magneto suppose to have telepathic resistance in the early comics? If so, that seems to be adapted here as Charles seemed to have a tough time hijacking his mind.

He did, he could also project himself telepathically across the world.

[Toxin45]

this was a cool finale just setting up season 2 with apocalypse as the main villain wonder how season 3 will top apocaylpse as the big bad? Maybe Onslaught?

[marhawkman]

this was a cool finale just setting up season 2 with apocalypse as the main villain wonder how season 3 will top apocaylpse as the big bad? Maybe Onslaught?

We know Onslaught is coming yeah.