Kurt Wagner/Nightcrawler Appreciation 2024

[Proxy]

I also find it confusing. If you also count that issue of 'Excalibur' where Nighty fled to Germany and that's where Ray hunted him down and killed him? Did he just survive the attack outside of Xaviers mansion? Or was it just a writer's mistake?



I was never a fan of the hope sword. But, oh well. Who is that with Kurt? Destiny?

Didn’t Claremont write a ‘sequel’ story where Kurt did survive that attack?

Yeah that’s Destiny, ironically people find her less recognizable now she’s younger.

[Nicoclaws]

I’ve read through the issue again and couldn’t see any mention of what happens to legion, didn’t see him with the others in the WHR either. Have I missed it?

I haven't read it so I must have misread the reviews XD

[whitecrown]

Didn’t Claremont write a ‘sequel’ story where Kurt did survive that attack?

Yeah that’s Destiny, ironically people find her less recognizable now she’s younger.

Yes, in UXM 140.5. I think some Excalibur issues, post-CC/post-Davis also said Kurt was alive in DOFP.

[From The Shadows]

Actually, I don't recall anyone saying he was alive? In DoFP he was shown as one of the slain among others. The Excalibur issue by Lobdell he was supposedly killed in Germany instead, though. As I said already, either it was an authors mistake or them saying that Kurt somehow survived his gunshot wounds then fled to Germany. It seems he became a priest. In that issue Rachel and Ahab tracked him there in he was killed. Can someone tell me which issue in Excalibur that said he survived?

[From The Shadows]

Some of my of favorite Nightcrawler images ever. Art by Mike Deodato Jr.

[From The Shadows]

[Proxy]

Actually, I don't recall anyone saying he was alive? In DoFP he was shown as one of the slain among others. The Excalibur issue by Lobdell he was supposedly killed in Germany instead, though. As I said already, either it was an authors mistake or them saying that Kurt somehow survived his gunshot wounds then fled to Germany. It seems he became a priest. In that issue Rachel and Ahab tracked him there in he was killed. Can someone tell me which issue in Excalibur that said he survived?

Maybe I’m thinking of the prelude Chris Claremont was going to do (Uncanny X-Men #140.5) in a Claremont special volume, there were sneak peaks all over the shop about it in 2020. Did that ever become a thing?

[From The Shadows]

Maybe I’m thinking of the prelude Chris Claremont was going to do (Uncanny X-Men #140.5) in a Claremont special volume, there were sneak peaks all over the shop about it in 2020. Did that ever become a thing?

I'm confused. Did he forget that he was killed? I never read that Special actually. I never even knew about it. Do you know what year it was released?

Edit: Duh, 2020

[From The Shadows]

To add: The reason I'm asking if he remembered is that it showed in DoFP with the aged X-Men that Kurt was indeed killed. They even dedicated a fastball special to him. And here everyone is quite young.

[Grimsmack]

Now according to Davis he said that Kurt was never in love with Meggan and that it was her innocence that drew him to her and her powers. I kinda prefer this explanation because to me it started out as obvious that CC had a major bias against him and did his hardest to make Brian look like a creep and a buffoon.

I never read those Excalibur comics thinking the writers had it out for Brian. When I first started reading comics in the late 80's, Excalibur (along with Classic X-Men) were the two series I bought with my allowance as a kid. I disagree that Captain Britain was made to look like a "creep and buffoon". I could tell Claremont, was just turning what could be a milquetoast boy scout-type hero into a deeper character. Brian Braddock was an alcoholic that struggled with being a hero, but he was a good man. He was a flawed hero.

Those early years of Excalibur were near perfect, IMO, and I grew to love each character. Nightcrawler, Kitty, and Rachel went from a series that was darker (Uncanny) to a Monty Python-esque set up, and the whole thing was grounded with 5 flawed characters and wonderful art. I know I'm the odd man out, but I really liked Brian's characterization during this time. I'm glad he wasn't "Steve Rogers in the UK", or even a Cyclops variant.

[Su_Whisterfield]

I never read those Excalibur comics thinking the writers had it out for Brian. When I first started reading comics in the late 80's, Excalibur (along with Classic X-Men) were the two series I bought with my allowance as a kid. I disagree that Captain Britain was made to look like a "creep and buffoon". I could tell Claremont, was just turning what could be a milquetoast boy scout-type hero into a deeper character. Brian Braddock was an alcoholic that struggled with being a hero, but he was a good man. He was a flawed hero.

Those early years of Excalibur were near perfect, IMO, and I grew to love each character. Nightcrawler, Kitty, and Rachel went from a series that was darker (Uncanny) to a Monty Python-esque set up, and the whole thing was grounded with 5 flawed characters and wonderful art. I know I'm the odd man out, but I really liked Brian's characterization during this time. I'm glad he wasn't "Steve Rogers in the UK", or even a Cyclops variant.

Brian has been a deeply interesting character since Alan Moore and Jamie Delano were writing him in the 1980s. Given the layers of trauma he’s been through, I was always prepared to cut him some slack (his death/rebirth, what happens to Betsy, the rape by Sat-yer-9, Billy’s death, Jackdaw’s death, Jasper’s Warp, there was such dark stuff, The Fury!) he was an absolute ass to Megan, particularly with Courtney, no excuses, but many US fans only met him in Excalibur, they missed so much good stuff which went before.

[From The Shadows]

I liked Brian in spite of those things. But I reeaaaaally don't think CC was trying to make him complex. I mean at all. His first scene with Nightcrawler says it all, his lashing out at Meggan too. I don't think people realize how much hate Brian got from Excalibur fans at one point. Even on these forums way back when. Most Brian fans blame CC for tarnishing his character. He was pretty much up there with Hank Pym for a while. Things have died down with him though. Claremont was actually surprised about the luke warm reception he received at a comic con from Brian fans.

[Su_Whisterfield]

I liked Brian in spite of those things. But I reeaaaaally don't think CC was trying to make him complex. I mean at all. His first scene with Nightcrawler says it all, his lashing out at Meggan too. I don't think people realize how much hate Brian got from Excalibur fans at one point. Even on these forums way back when. Most Brian fans blame CC for tarnishing his character. He was pretty much up there with Hank Pym for a while. Things have died down with him though. Claremont was actually surprised about the luke warm reception he received at a comic con from Brian fans.

Chris, much as I love him, can be dog-in-the-manger over ‘his’ characters, he doesn’t always acknowledge or appreciate others work on them.
He created Brian, but Moore/Thorpe/Delano/Davis made him into the deep and interesting character for Marvel UK.
Chris used characters from the Marvel UK stuff (The Crazy Gang, Special Exec, Vixen etc) but not the deeper parts of Brian’s characterisation.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Found some fan art I did in 86/87!

IMG_4352.jpg

IMG_4349.jpg

[Proxy]

Found some fan art I did in 86/87!

IMG_4352.jpg

IMG_4349.jpg

Awesome! I love your style!