Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2024

[whitecrown]

With the current revelation about Hope, what do people think about Firehair, the Phoenix of 1,000,000 BC? She obviously looks like Jean. You think Jean created her too? I noticed that in XMF4, Louise refers to Jean as "fiery hair" and I wonder if that was Gillens' way of acknowledging Firehair without being direct

Ever since this character was created, she was basically asking to be absorbed into the fold.

The Minimate Database even characterizes her as Jean.
http://www.minimatedatabase.com/chars.php?i=14

[Mercury]

With the current revelation about Hope, what do people think about Firehair, the Phoenix of 1,000,000 BC? She obviously looks like Jean. You think Jean created her too? I noticed that in XMF4, Louise refers to Jean as "fiery hair" and I wonder if that was Gillens' way of acknowledging Firehair without being direct

My theory is that Firehair is Jean on one of her sojourns as White Phoenix, either after her death in DPS or in New X-Men. I'm excited to see Brevoort substantiate his declaration that Jean "has, in fact, always been Phoenix."

[Darth_Caedus]

Jean Grey is the greatest superheroine of all time imo

[Mercury]

Thank you my friend
It's probably because I don't have any fond memories of Claremont

Claremont wrote Scott beautifully on many occasions. The story whitecrown and I cited is really good and Scott-centric. It delves into his time at the orphanage. You should definitely check it out. Also, if you're on Twitter, hit me up.

I still say that's a really big mistake. Whatever CC says about Scott in real life, his writing for him on-panel has never let Scott down (minus the Lee Forrester nonsense that upset people even back in the 80s). I know people were upset about CC's X-Men Forever portrayal, but lack of Jott aside, Claremont did a really good job of characterizing him there too.

Agreed.

Jean Grey is the greatest superheroine of all time imo

You're too sweet. :')

[whitecrown]

Jean Grey is the greatest superheroine of all time imo

I had to argue this in the Spidey forum of all places lol. There were really people trying to claim that Jean and Mary Jane Watson have zilch in common and MJ and the fake blonde have more overlap. Even though historically, Jean and MJ's fandoms have often been connected and this was even pointed out in the letter pages of Renew Your Vows. Another thing the fake blonde has tried to steal from Jean but failed to do.

Also a nice fun fact is that out of all the Marvel superheroines, Jean is the one with the most minimates. She has 20 minimates. Storm is #2 with 10 minimates so you can see there's quite a divide.

These are minimates btw for anyone unfamiliar with them. Sorta like Lego toys but not really Legos and with more posability. They usually come in two-packs or four-packs. So Jean usually comes with Scott in two-packs and some of the O5 in the four-packs.

[Darth_Caedus]

Claremont wrote Scott beautifully on many occasions. The story whitecrown and I cited is really good and Scott-centric. It delves into his time at the orphanage. You should definitely check it out. Also, if you're on Twitter, hit me up.

I've read that issue I just couldn't recall the exact number. Claremont wrote a great Cyclops for sure but he seems to have a grudge with the character right now. I mean the Editorial did Chris dirty and he finds Scott, a fictional character with no agency of his own, responsible. I'm not on twitter unfortunately, my account has been suspended for reasons unknown because I haven't posted a single comment there.

You're too sweet. :')

Thanks! I really mean it though. I don't think even Wonder Woman has had as many good stories as Jean.

[whitecrown]

I've read that issue I just couldn't recall the exact number. Claremont wrote a great Cyclops for sure but he seems to have a grudge with the character right now. I mean the Editorial did Chris dirty and he finds Scott, a fictional character with no agency of his own, responsible. I'm not on twitter unfortunately, my account has been suspended for reasons unknown because I haven't posted a single comment there.

Thanks! I really mean it though. I don't think even Wonder Woman has had as many good stories as Jean.

He's deeply attached to these characters and they're real for him. So he treats them like his own children and he's always said he doesn't hate Scott but hates what was done to him. That's why he always has to fix Scott's original sin with Maddie whenever he can because that makes the character palatable for him and readers again.

Also this CC documentary (which I watched and heartily enjoyed) features Scott on the cover along with Jean. So CC clearly can't despise him that much when Scott made the cover over Wolverine and Storm.


I've heard that said before that despite how iconic Wonder Woman is, she lacks a definitive comic book storyline.

[Darth_Caedus]

I had to argue this in the Spidey forum of all places lol. There were really people trying to claim that Jean and Mary Jane Watson have zilch in common and MJ and the fake blonde have more overlap. Even though historically, Jean and MJ's fandoms have often been connected and this was even pointed out in the letter pages of Renew Your Vows. Another thing the fake blonde has tried to steal from Jean but failed to do.

Also a nice fun fact is that out of all the Marvel superheroines, Jean is the one with the most minimates. She has 20 minimates. Storm is #2 with 10 minimates so you can see there's quite a divide.

These are minimates btw for anyone unfamiliar with them. Sorta like Lego toys but not really Legos and with more posability. They usually come in two-packs or four-packs. So Jean usually comes with Scott in two-packs and some of the O5 in the four-packs.

No no renew your vows...don't remind me of that...
Peter moving on from Gwen Stacy and finding true love with MJ has no similarities whatsoever with Scott being raped by a fake blonde with fake boobs when he was suffering from PTSD.

Lol those are cute

[whitecrown]

No no renew your vows...don't remind me of that...
Peter moving on from Gwen Stacy and finding true love with MJ has no similarities whatsoever with Scott being raped by a fake blonde with fake boobs when he was suffering from PTSD.

Lol those are cute

I am a little surprised that Renew Your Vows paired up Jean with Logan instead. I can only think that the damage done by OMD meant that there needed to be some cosmic balance which meant that bringing Peter/MJ together meant another classic pair had to be broken up. Or maybe it's just that Wolverine being closer to Spider-Man's popularity meant that a Spidey-centric book would highlight Wolverine more (although Cyclops had a lot of paneltime in those issues, equivalent to Wolverine and Jean).

Yes, exactly. It was shocking to hear people claim that a rapist and MJ have so much in common and should be considered their respective true loves. I'm glad even a fan of the fake blonde admitted that they could see why people would dislike her in comparison to MJ since MJ does not have a sordid history of violence, murder, genocide, rape, sexual assault, etc. At least own up to your favorite for what they're known for.

Cyclops has 20 minimates as well. Didn't realize he was tied with Jean until just now but it makes sense since most of their minimates come together.

[Mercury]

I had to argue this in the Spidey forum of all places lol. There were really people trying to claim that Jean and Mary Jane Watson have zilch in common and MJ and the fake blonde have more overlap. Even though historically, Jean and MJ's fandoms have often been connected and this was even pointed out in the letter pages of Renew Your Vows. Another thing the fake blonde has tried to steal from Jean but failed to do.

Also a nice fun fact is that out of all the Marvel superheroines, Jean is the one with the most minimates. She has 20 minimates. Storm is #2 with 10 minimates so you can see there's quite a divide.

These are minimates btw for anyone unfamiliar with them. Sorta like Lego toys but not really Legos and with more posability. They usually come in two-packs or four-packs. So Jean usually comes with Scott in two-packs and some of the O5 in the four-packs.

Too adorable!

I've read that issue I just couldn't recall the exact number. Claremont wrote a great Cyclops for sure but he seems to have a grudge with the character right now. I mean the Editorial did Chris dirty and he finds Scott, a fictional character with no agency of his own, responsible. I'm not on twitter unfortunately, my account has been suspended for reasons unknown because I haven't posted a single comment there.

You should just create a new one. I know of quite a few members who have flocked over there. It can be a haven if you block out some of the less palatable noise, which is really easy to do. I had a Twitter account dedicated to Jean before I signed up here. Anyway, I think you'd enjoy the group chat. It has an eclectic mix of fans, from supreme Jott lovers to Jogan supporters to those who are neutral about both to those who even prefer Jean single.

Thanks! I really mean it though. I don't think even Wonder Woman has had as many good stories as Jean.

That's kind. I like to think all legendary heroes, especially those that have been around for 50+ years, are unique and beautiful in their own ways. They've certainly passed the test of time.

He's deeply attached to these characters and they're real for him. So he treats them like his own children and he's always said he doesn't hate Scott but hates what was done to him. That's why he always has to fix Scott's original sin with Maddie whenever he can because that makes the character palatable for him and readers again.

I was going to post something very similar!

Also this CC documentary (which I watched and heartily enjoyed) features Scott on the cover along with Jean. So CC clearly can't despise him that much when Scott made the cover over Wolverine and Storm.

Chris Claremont's X-Men is a great doc. I saw it a few years ago. Lots of great insights. Weezie cracked me in a few key moments.

[Darth_Caedus]

He's deeply attached to these characters and they're real for him. So he treats them like his own children and he's always said he doesn't hate Scott but hates what was done to him. That's why he always has to fix Scott's original sin with Maddie whenever he can because that makes the character palatable for him and readers again.

Also this CC documentary (which I watched and heartily enjoyed) features Scott on the cover along with Jean. So CC clearly can't despise him that much when Scott made the cover over Wolverine and Storm.


I've heard that said before that despite how iconic Wonder Woman is, she lacks a definitive comic book storyline.

For me the original sin was fixed by Simonson and Jean also has Maddie's memories. I could live without him expanding upon the love triangle but it is what it is. I'm of the same opinon as Simonson: "Jean is all about fiery passion and Scott is all about control." That's why I think they're the best versions of each other when together. We've all seen how Emma influenced him. She made him let go, and that wasn't good.

[whitecrown]

You should just create a new one. I know of quite a few members who have flocked over there. It can be a haven if you block out some of the less palatable noise, which is really easy to do. I had a Twitter account dedicated to Jean before I signed up here. Anyway, I think you'd enjoy the group chat. It has an eclectic mix of fans, from supreme Jott lovers to Jogan supporters to those who are neutral about both to those who even prefer Jean single.

Wasn't there some recent beef between Jean fans and Wanda fans on Twitter? I only caught a little bit of it, mainly from Jean fans saying not to engage in useless drama like that, but it seems like it was about fighting over power levels and who would win in a battle. A pity since Wanda and Jean fandoms have generally been pretty united. I know she's gotten a huge influx of new fans since WandaVision so I guess it would make sense that they would be less familiar or beholden to Jean and wouldn't feel the same synergy with her that long-term comic readers would have from knowing both of them.

[whitecrown]

For me the original sin was fixed by Simonson and Jean also has Maddie's memories. I could live without him expanding upon the love triangle but it is what it is. I'm of the same opinon as Simonson: "Jean is all about fiery passion and Scott is all about control." That's why I think they're the best versions of each other when together. We've all seen how Emma influenced him. She made him let go, and that wasn't good.

It was for me too but I was never really a Maddie fan. In fact, X-Men '97 is the first time I've ever cared for her as an individual character. Otherwise, I only saw her as another incarnation of Jean (which is how Claremont technically characterized her as too) and one I found to be rather bland in the days before Jean's return and pre-Goblin Queen.

CC always loved Maddie a lot and despite all the times he claims that Maddie is just another piece of Jean to complete her, he still seems to view her as her own independent character. He was deeply attached to her in a way that pretty much nobody else ever was so I think seeing how she was discarded by all of Marvel is why CC is so fiercely protective of her and why he gives her the happy ending he had promised to her initially.

[Darth_Caedus]

I am a little surprised that Renew Your Vows paired up Jean with Logan instead. I can only think that the damage done by OMD meant that there needed to be some cosmic balance which meant that bringing Peter/MJ together meant another classic pair had to be broken up. Or maybe it's just that Wolverine being closer to Spider-Man's popularity meant that a Spidey-centric book would highlight Wolverine more (although Cyclops had a lot of paneltime in those issues, equivalent to Wolverine and Jean).

Yes, exactly. It was shocking to hear people claim that a rapist and MJ have so much in common and should be considered their respective true loves. I'm glad even a fan of the fake blonde admitted that they could see why people would dislike her in comparison to MJ since MJ does not have a sordid history of violence, murder, genocide, rape, sexual assault, etc. At least own up to your favorite for what they're known for.

Cyclops has 20 minimates as well. Didn't realize he was tied with Jean until just now but it makes sense since most of their minimates come together.

I think it was about the pairings you won't see that often in 616. I've lost count of all the AUs that Namor and Sue are paired up lol. But that's what they are. Alternate universes. OMD and NXM both ruined their respective franchises' most iconic couples. At least Jott recovered lol.

Emma was never Scott's true love. That's revisionist history. He does love her but it's the exact opposite of MJ/Gwen situation. Peter loved MJ more than Gwen but Scott always loved Jean more than Emma. He married the redhead didn't he?

[Darth_Caedus]

You should just create a new one. I know of quite a few members who have flocked over there. It can be a haven if you block out some of the less palatable noise, which is really easy to do. I had a Twitter account dedicated to Jean before I signed up here. Anyway, I think you'd enjoy the group chat. It has an eclectic mix of fans, from supreme Jott lovers to Jogan supporters to those who are neutral about both to those who even prefer Jean single.

Doesn't X require subscriptions now? I tend to avoid social media. I don't even have an Instagram account like 99.99 percent of my genmates