________ was a great idea that got completely out of control.

[Jack Dracula]

My entry-continuity and shared universes.

Continuity and a shared universe can be beneficial when they are drawn from stories and used to link them together into something greater than the sum of the parts and trace how the characters of the stories grow and change as they face conflicts and the consequences of those conflicts, but when continuity and the shred universe become the point in and of themselves and replace the telling of stories about the characters in which they face conflicts, grow and change as a result of those conflicts imposing a static status quo in which there can be no real growth or change in the characters, it undermines and sabotages the credibility of those characters and stories into a repetitive stagnant formula. I prefer stories about Batman and Superman interacting together in a world they share rather than stories about the DC Universe in which Superman and Batman happen to interact (or replace Supes/Bats DCU with Cap, Iron Man, and MU). It's why most lines that try to start out by forging a shared universe as the heart of the line fizzle out, people stay because they care about the characters, not about the universe, and the focus on the shared universe and the need to maintain or retcon or reboot, or refresh continuity instead of the focus on telling good stories about these characters who happen to inhabit a world has made those universe and those lines of books poorer for it.

-M

It seems to me that having a shared universe across multiple titles makes it easier to write expansive crossover stories that require readers to buy multiple copies from several titles just to get the full story.

[Riv86672]

It was rarely used pre-Miller, though. "Darknight" was used far more extensively than "Dark Night" until TDKR.

^^^But…but…I totally answered the question!

[MRP]

It seems to me that having a shared universe across multiple titles makes it easier to write expansive crossover stories that require readers to buy multiple copies from several titles just to get the full story.

Possibly, but your audience is much smaller than it would be without the expansive shared universe. The downward spiral of comic sales started plummeting towards entropy much faster the more comics focused on continuity and shared universes. It attracts hardcore readers willing to buy vast swaths of stories to get a complete story, it alienates the mass audience and the majority or regular readers who expect to get a complete story from the comics they buy. Is having a core customer base of 20-75 thousand readers buying 15-20 books better than having a customer base in the hundreds of thousands buying a half dozen titles each? Economy of scale means selling less copies of more titles is less profitable than selling more copies of fewer titles because the unit cost goes up the smaller the print run goes.

And that focus on buying more titles just to get a single story is one of the largest obstacles preventing the growth of the super-hero customer base despite the surge in popularity in super-hero stories in other mediums.

Sure it gives you a bigger slice of the the resulting smaller pie, but the pie would be bigger overall and the slices worth more no matter what the size, without it.

And every time you try to refresh, reset or reboot the continuity of your shared universe, you are going to alienate and shed a portion of your remaining hardcore audience willing to buy into those big crossovers without attracting other readers who would replace them or grow your audience, further speeding up the entropy spiral. Again, continuity isn't the problem the hyperfocus on it instead of on telling stories about the characters who are the draw is. Without the characters, no one would care about the continuity, and the success fo Elseworlds, What Ifs, Alternate Universe stories, Imaginary Stories or what have you featuring those characters outside of continuity should point to what is the draw. It's not the continuity, it's the character concepts. But the focus on continuity and shared universes has gotten out of hand to the detriment of storytelling and the direct market super-hero market as a whole.

-M

[Android 17]

The multiverse in comics period was a great idea until Crises, Spider-Verses and other alternate universes just got out of hand.

Disagree. Not to derail the thread, but fearing and hating a whole class of people for the actions of a few in that group is analogous to what happens today. The fear people have of real world minorities is just as rational to them as a fear of Beak is to you. Since most Mutants are less powerful than a human with a weapon, it's not really rational to hate and fear all Mutants. Hundreds of thousands Mutants on Krakoa were shown as being pretty much useless in a fight or when trying to survive.

Agreed.

[AnthonyO'Brien]

Killing Gwen Stacy
Killing Jean Grey then having her come back
Mr Sinister's clones.

The whole "so and so dies, is revived, dies again revived again" thing...

[CaptainEurope]

It was rarely used pre-Miller, though. "Darknight" was used far more extensively than "Dark Night" until TDKR.

"Caped Crusader" was much more common. Even Aretha Franklin used it in a song.

Save me, yeah
Please save me

Calling the Caped Crusader, Green Hornet, Kato, too
I'm in so much trouble I don't know what to do
If you think anything about me

Save me

[Catlady in training]

Dropping entire seasons on the same day. It completely destroyed the opportunity to speculate about the next episode and share theories with each other, because everyone is always at a different place in the season.

[Android 17]

Dropping entire seasons on the same day. It completely destroyed the opportunity to speculate about the next episode and share theories with each other, because everyone is always at a different place in the season.

Absolutely.

Also doesn't give the audience a chance to digest what they've just seen.

[DrNewGod]

Dropping entire seasons on the same day. It completely destroyed the opportunity to speculate about the next episode and share theories with each other, because everyone is always at a different place in the season.

Agreed. We also miss out on cool surprises when the next ep drops and cleverly hands us something we didn't expect.

[The Gold Stream]

back to the future because of 3

[Arachne]

Social media.

[JCAll]

Dropping entire seasons on the same day. It completely destroyed the opportunity to speculate about the next episode and share theories with each other, because everyone is always at a different place in the season.

Just streaming in general. Sure would be nice if people weren't expected to sign up for a dozen different services, and we hadn't dismantled the DVD and Rental markets.

[CaptainEurope]

Just streaming in general. Sure would be nice if people weren't expected to sign up for a dozen different services, and we hadn't dismantled the DVD and Rental markets.

As most of them can be canceled monthly, I have been rotating streaming services for years. Got to be careful to avoid spoilers sometimes, but I can wait a few weeks to watch the new season of Sandman (will there ever be a second season) before I get Netflix back.

[K7P5V]

Definitely, my choice would be Serpentor & his Cobra-La backstory taking over the G.I. Joe franchise.
The majority won't agree, but I'll always prefer Cobra Commander in charge along with everything else being a bit more grounded.