X-Men: Forever #4 - Review/Spoilers

[Bruce Wayne]

Why are people under the assumption that all those mutants will be stuck in the WHR?

Because Brevoort. This is the same guy behind Bendis, HoM and "No More Mutants".

[Uncanny X-Man]

I didn't think this was as good as it could have been... but I enjoyed it overall. I'd come to appreciate Hope throughout the years but she was clearly a redundant character nowadays - they gave her a very fitting, meaningful ending and I hope future writers resist the temptation to ever bring her back.

I would also love to see the fallout of her death from Cable's POV, I hope that's explored somewhere on some book in the From the Ashes era.

[Havok83]

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Because Brevoort. This is the same guy behind Bendis, HoM and "No More Mutants".

Id personally wait until the story is don. They really would have to come up with a reason for why Jean leaves them there bc she has the power to return them all

I didn't think this was as good as it could have been... but I enjoyed it overall. I'd come to appreciate Hope throughout the years but she was clearly a redundant character nowadays - they gave her a very fitting, meaningful ending and I hope future writers resist the temptation to ever bring her back.

I would also love to see the fallout of her death from Cable's POV, I hope that's explored somewhere on some book in the From the Ashes era.

IDA. Krakoa made her relevant again and gave her a unique role that was not being filled by any other character. She was the opposite of redundant

When Cable died, Hope got a oneshot to mourn and remember him. It would be fitting if he got one for her too

[Uncanny X-Man]

IDA. Krakoa made her relevant again and gave her a unique role that was not being filled by any other character. She was the opposite of redundant

When Cable died, Hope got a oneshot to mourn and remember him. It would be fitting if he got one for her too

And so, yes on her role as Krakoa's Omega power manipulator... but resurrection was always going to come to an end and Hope with it as the central character in the Five. You can't really justify keeping Hope around and powered but not resurrecting mutants anymore, so we'd go back to her role post-AvX, or lack thereof. I think they took Hope off the table because they needed resurrection to be off the table permanently.

[Havok83]

And so, yes on her role as Krakoa's Omega power manipulator... but resurrection was always going to come to an end and Hope with it as the central character in the Five. You can't really justify keeping Hope around and powered but not resurrecting mutants anymore, so we'd go back to her role post-AvX, or lack thereof. I think they took Hope off the table because they needed resurrection to be off the table permanently.

No which is why im fine with her off the table. i just didnt agree with the notion that she's been redundant lately

[RandyMcDonald]

I also like the characterization that we got of Louise Spalding. Did we ever get anything about her, apart from what we learned during Hope's visit with her grandmother on Fraction's run?

[PhoenixStudies]

This issue helps to explain why the Cosmic Construction Worker manifestation of Death told Jean that in some ways she comes from the Phoenix and the Phoenix comes from her and the Phoenix telling her its form, consciousness, and ability to communicate on this plane derive from her...

because Jean was there and a key ingredient when the Phoenix was made. Her White Hot Room self with her mind/memories/soul/consciousness was laid on the pyre (that Rachel imbued with impressions from multiple universes from the M'Kraan Crystal via Prodigy) and Hope lit the flame with Jean's fire (that she got in Jean Grey #4/Immortal X-Men #17). Jean's double death makes her burn and see everything from above time and space. She goes back in time and creates Hope using the Phoenix fire and her (Jean's) love. She is the Phoenix who creates/sends Hope to bring back the mutants at the end of AvX and to help create the Phoenix (along with Jean and Rachel in this current story). When Hope kills the Phoenix she is also killed and releases the final spark of the Phoenix to be reborn.

The Phoenix refers to Jean as mother-me, because Jean is the mother of the Phoenix and also the Phoenix itself. Rachel (who was likely created the same way Jean created Hope per Claremont's original idea) and Hope are the Phoenix and the daughters of the Phoenix. Rachel said that the fire comes with her psychic territory naturally in Dead X-Men.

They thought they were recreating the Phoenix but the re-creation/creation is the same time since they are outside/beyond time and space. Here is where the Phoenix begins and ends and the point it reaches throughout time and space.

I've seen some fans elsewhere trying to minimize Jean's role in all this, but Rachel did say they needed Jean for it to work. Mother Righteous learned about Jean from a Phoenix Egg and said Jean is of the Phoenix in a real and unbreakable way and she and it guide each other in a circle without end. Enigma described the Phoenix as the part of Jean that eats stars and dominions.

From by understanding Jean, Rachel, and Hope are all Phoenixes, but Jean is Mother and they are Daughters. Gillen (and Foxe with Dead X-Men) have resolved the labyrinthine Phoenix mythos without taking away from either of the three, imho.

Now we understand why Death said that the Phoenix would always come to Jean and her children.

[Uncanny X-Man]

This issue helps to explain why the Cosmic Construction Worker manifestation of Death told Jean that in some ways she comes from the Phoenix and the Phoenix comes from her and the Phoenix telling her its form, consciousness, and ability to communicate on this plane derive from her...

because Jean was there and a key ingredient when the Phoenix was made. Her White Hot Room self with her mind/memories/soul/consciousness was laid on the pyre (that Rachel imbued with impressions from multiple universes from the M'Kraan Crystal via Prodigy) and Hope lit the flame with Jean's fire (that she got in Jean Grey #4/Immortal X-Men #17). Jean's double death makes her burn and see everything from above time and space. She goes back in time and creates Hope using the Phoenix fire and her (Jean's) love. She is the Phoenix who creates/sends Hope to bring back the mutants at the end of AvX and to help create the Phoenix (along with Jean and Rachel in this current story). When Hope kills the Phoenix she is also killed and releases the final spark of the Phoenix to be reborn.

The Phoenix refers to Jean as mother-me, because Jean is the mother of the Phoenix and also the Phoenix itself. Rachel (who was likely created the same way Jean created Hope per Claremont's original idea) and Hope are the Phoenix and the daughters of the Phoenix. Rachel said that the fire comes with her psychic territory naturally in Dead X-Men.

They thought they were recreating the Phoenix but the re-creation/creation is the same time since they are outside/beyond time and space. Here is where the Phoenix begins and ends and the point it reaches throughout time and space.

I've seen some fans elsewhere trying to minimize Jean's role in all this, but Rachel did say they needed Jean for it to work. Mother Righteous learned about Jean from a Phoenix Egg and said Jean is of the Phoenix in a real and unbreakable way and she and it guide each other in a circle without end. Enigma described the Phoenix as the part of Jean that eats stars and dominions.

From by understanding Jean, Rachel, and Hope are all Phoenixes, but Jean is Mother and they are Daughters. Gillen (and Foxe with Dead X-Men) have resolved the labyrinthine Phoenix mythos without taking away from either of the three, imho.

Now we understand why Death said that the Phoenix would always come to Jean and her children.

Great explanation! I'm perfectly happy with it and it makes perfect sense to me... in the way X-Men stories can make sense.

[Havok83]

Great explanation! I'm perfectly happy with it and it makes perfect sense to me... in the way X-Men stories can make sense.

Yes! I like PhoenixStudies' observation. Its also my headcanon that the only reason why the Phoenix was in a position to die was bc all those other hosts since Jean's death were poison to it. It NEEDS Jean but can sustain itself with Hope and Rachel as they are born from her. I think this understanding resolves any fear that it may go host hopping again

[Antarctic]

I didn't think this was as good as it could have been... but I enjoyed it overall. I'd come to appreciate Hope throughout the years but she was clearly a redundant character nowadays - they gave her a very fitting, meaningful ending and I hope future writers resist the temptation to ever bring her back.

I would also love to see the fallout of her death from Cable's POV, I hope that's explored somewhere on some book in the From the Ashes era.

Sorry that I got triggered lol, but Hope is only redundant for writers or readers that only care about Phoenix.

What I always loved about the char was her personality and background. You don't see many female soldier minded chars in the X-Men, if any.

[Havok83]

Sorry that I got triggered lol, but Hope is only redundant for writers or readers that only care about Phoenix.

What I always loved about the char was her personality and background. You don't see many female soldier minded chars in the X-Men, if any.

I mean there's Domino who was introduced as a companion to Cable whom ironically is also tied to Hope

[French X-man]

I wonder what will happen to Hope, as the host of the phoenix, she has to go to the white room but since she died when she was there, will she go back or is Is she going to go to the waiting room?
I found it strange that he didn't resurrect Thunderbird and not other mutants, and in Ressurection of Magneto, the waiting room was empty as Ashake, Storm's ancestor, said.
Maybe she and Hope will plan something to resurrect a lot of mutants at once when there's Krakoa 2

[gambitxremy]

Hope does with the sinister crown still on her IMG_8670.jpg

[Havok83]

I wonder what will happen to Hope, as the host of the phoenix, she has to go to the white room but since she died when she was there, will she go back or is Is she going to go to the waiting room?
I found it strange that he didn't resurrect Thunderbird and not other mutants, and in Ressurection of Magneto, the waiting room was empty as Ashake, Storm's ancestor, said.
Maybe she and Hope will plan something to resurrect a lot of mutants at once when there's Krakoa 2

Hope isnt a Phoenix host. She IS the Phoenix. This issue revealed that she was a Phoenix fragment which explained her tie to the Force.. Her death burned her back into the flame that gave rise to the birth of this recreated Phoenix which has now fully merged with Jean. They're all one and the same. This issue completed her arc and it doesnt make sense to her to still exist as a separate being with those implications. Th best way to understand it is to look at her as a reincarnated Jean and one that has returned to her

[berserkerclaw]

I wonder what will happen to Hope, as the host of the phoenix, she has to go to the white room but since she died when she was there, will she go back or is Is she going to go to the waiting room?
I found it strange that he didn't resurrect Thunderbird and not other mutants, and in Ressurection of Magneto, the waiting room was empty as Ashake, Storm's ancestor, said.
Maybe she and Hope will plan something to resurrect a lot of mutants at once when there's Krakoa 2

Hope has always been the Phoenix since her first appearence