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[QUOTE=Captain Smith;4733991]Anybody who clobbers that total piece of ... , Sasuke is ok with me. One thing I hate about Naruto is and was the endless Sasuke love.[/QUOTE]
And one thing I hate about Naruto is the seemingly endless bad takes about Sasuke.
[QUOTE=Nik Hasta;4734019]And one thing I hate about Naruto is the seemingly endless bad takes about Sasuke.[/QUOTE]
That's more of a problem with the fandom than the series, but yeah it is a problem.
Sakura and Hinna have similar problems with the fandom.
*raises hand*
Total Naruto noob over here, but didnt Gai bend space as a result of his full power being unleashed? Isn't he like absurdly absurdly faster then most the cast based on that alone?
[QUOTE=The Arbiter;4734132]*raises hand*
Total Naruto noob over here, but didnt Gai bend space as a result of his full power being unleashed? Isn't he like absurdly absurdly faster then most the cast based on that alone?[/QUOTE]
Gai is... probably the most purely physically powerful guy in the series.
Gai, with the Eighth Gate open, was manifesting a chakra so dense that it was causing space to warp around him. Other people have tried to present it as a speed feat but it seems to be more a product of his sheer energy than a facet of his speed specifically. He's fast enough that the tippty top top tier guys who are like "I just absorbed all the power of legendary beasts and am now effectively a country-nuking god man," couldn't actually stop him doing things to them.
Please note that Gai couldn't beat them in combat, their gimmicks were too strong, but even Ten Tails Madara was like "Wtf how are you this strong and fast, haha, this is awesome,"
The issue of this match is that opening the gates does take some time. The first couple can be done near instantly, the others take a bit of time to get there. All Might is certainly physically powerful enough to put Gai into a world of hurt with one of his hits but I'm dubious if he has the speed to do that before Gai starts opening gates and becoming exponentially more powerful because Gai is already wickedly fast in his own right.
[QUOTE=Nik Hasta;4734151]Gai is... probably the most purely physically powerful guy in the series.
Gai, with the Eighth Gate open, was manifesting a chakra so dense that it was causing space to warp around him. Other people have tried to present it as a speed feat but it seems to be more a product of his sheer energy than a facet of his speed specifically. He's fast enough that the tippty top top tier guys who are like "I just absorbed all the power of legendary beasts and am now effectively a country-nuking god man," couldn't actually stop him doing things to them.
Please note that Gai couldn't beat them in combat, their gimmicks were too strong, but even Ten Tails Madara was like "Wtf how are you this strong and fast, haha, this is awesome,"
The issue of this match is that opening the gates does take some time. The first couple can be done near instantly, the others take a bit of time to get there. All Might is certainly physically powerful enough to put Gai into a world of hurt with one of his hits but I'm dubious if he has the speed to do that before Gai starts opening gates and becoming exponentially more powerful because Gai is already wickedly fast in his own right.[/QUOTE]
This should have been a massacre for Gai. In the MHA first two seasons, I haven't seen All Might do any serious tactical fighting. He pretty much goes "You want some, get some" and plummel his foes into death. Gai, with his implied skills and weights (If Lee wears them, you know Gai is wearing some), should trounce All Might. Heck, I think pre-timeskip Lee takes out All Might easily if he gets his weights off.
The problem is that there is no good dodging feats for Gai, from what I can tell. The Kisame & Madara fights, he doesn't dodge much(and not at the necessary speed) before opening the gates. I might need to check out the Curry of Life eps again to look for those feats. Without those feats, All Might wins.
[QUOTE=Little_Mac;4737229]This should have been a massacre for Gai. In the MHA first two seasons, I haven't seen All Might do any serious tactical fighting. He pretty much goes "You want some, get some" and plummel his foes into death. Gai, with his implied skills and weights (If Lee wears them, you know Gai is wearing some), should trounce All Might. Heck, I think pre-timeskip Lee takes out All Might easily if he gets his weights off.[/QUOTE]
All Might is perfectly capable of fighting tactically. After noticing that Nomu was just eating his hits he came up with a quick plan to incap the thing by trapping it in the ground, only reason it didn't work was because Kurogiri was there to mess it up. And he beat All For One mainly by outplaying him in their final exchange. I mean, yeah he mainly win by punching his opponents, but that's because he often doesn't need much else. It doesn't mean he's not skilled. Heck, during all of his time as All Might he's carefully regulating his damage output, otherwise he'd create tornados and whatnot whenever he make a large leap.
I mean, Gai still most likely wins but it'll be because of speed and not skill.
[QUOTE=Little_Mac;4737229]The problem is that there is no good dodging feats for Gai, from what I can tell. The Kisame & Madara fights, he doesn't dodge much(and not at the necessary speed) before opening the gates. I might need to check out the Curry of Life eps again to look for those feats. Without those feats, All Might wins.[/QUOTE]
Curry of life episodes aren't canon. Like at all.
I gotta say, if we're debating whether Gai can best All Might even at all then I really can't see the logic in claiming that pre-timeskip Lee can beat him.
I mean, for one, Lee is nowhere near strong enough to hurt him significantly.
Also, what do you mean by "dodging feats"? Gai has some pretty good speed feats when not even using his gates, certainly more impressive than anything I've seen All Might do.
Base Gai wouldn't be able to do any real damage to all Might, but with 6 gates followed by Hirudo it's over.
Edit: Actually, I guess in theory that Base Gai couls try blitzing up All Might while qileding kunai's.
[QUOTE=Nik Hasta;4734151]Gai is... probably the most purely physically powerful guy in the series.
Gai, with the Eighth Gate open, was manifesting a chakra so dense that it was causing space to warp around him. Other people have tried to present it as a speed feat [/QUOTE]
Hot take. Where does the manga say anything about manifesting dense chakra? And why doesn't it bend space when hes not moving, if that chakra is already there? People think it's a speed feat because it looks like one, and because they think it fits overall Naruto powerscaling.
[QUOTE]The issue of this match is that opening the gates does take some time. The first couple can be done near instantly, the others take a bit of time to get there.[/QUOTE]
By feats, Guy can go from base to 6th in one turn. In his first fight against Kisame, he was able to make the decision to go to 6th, cross his arms and complete its activation faster than Kisame's shark attack, already in motion, could strike from only a few feet away. The two times he enters 7th from 6th, it appears to take no additional process or effort. So I don't see time being an issue here at all.
*watches scene*
Yeah, Gai spends a LOT of time floating around in 8th Gate without warping anything. Only his final burst at what was essentially a full on straight sprint/dash/charge seemed to bend space.
[QUOTE=Morning;4746405]Hot take. Where does the manga say anything about manifesting dense chakra? And why doesn't it bend space when hes not moving, if that chakra is already there? People think it's a speed feat because it looks like one, and because they think it fits overall Naruto powerscaling.[/QUOTE]
The space bending thing is weird.
People say it's a speed feat but the thing that wrinkles that to me is that the area being bent by space isn't where Gai is. It's where he's travelling toward. I don't see how his speed can have an impact on an area he's yet to move through. Density of chakra makes more sense to me because it happens when Gai is using every iota of power that he has and he's specifically manifesting incredibly dense chakra around him and that would be focused toward Madara.
People can claim it's some kind of speed feat, I can see that's an argument one can make, but I don't see it can be when it's an effect happening in an area where he has not travelled to.
[QUOTE=Nik Hasta;4749805]The space bending thing is weird.
People say it's a speed feat but the thing that wrinkles that to me is that the area being bent by space isn't where Gai is. It's where he's travelling toward. I don't see how his speed can have an impact on an area he's yet to move through. Density of chakra makes more sense to me because it happens when Gai is using every iota of power that he has and he's specifically manifesting incredibly dense chakra around him and that would be focused toward Madara.
People can claim it's some kind of speed feat, I can see that's an argument one can make, but I don't see it can be when it's an effect happening in an area where he has not travelled to.[/QUOTE]
Meh. I kind of see it like how atmosphere compresses and heats in front of a returning space shuttle. Or the ripple of water in front of a boat. The "material" is sorta making adjustments for the approaching object.
It's a weird feat, but that's my interpretation of it.
[QUOTE=The Arbiter;4749830]Meh. I kind of see it like how atmosphere compresses and heats in front of a returning space shuttle. Or the ripple of water in front of a boat. The "material" is sorta making adjustments for the approaching object.
It's a weird feat, but that's my interpretation of it.[/QUOTE]
See, that's basically my read of it as well but I put it down to a quality of the chakra rather than just raw speed.
But yeah, weird feat.
[QUOTE=Nik Hasta;4749805]The space bending thing is weird.
People say it's a speed feat but the thing that wrinkles that to me is that the area being bent by space isn't where Gai is. It's where he's travelling toward. I don't see how his speed can have an impact on an area he's yet to move through. Density of chakra makes more sense to me[/QUOTE]
Gravity distorts the space [I]around[/I] the object creating it, so it would make sense for space to distort in front of Madara right before a near-light speed object makes contact.
It would be compelling if that area were the only place where space bends, but the manga doesn't show this either way--the panel zooms in because it's the only spot that matters to the fight.
[url]https://imgur.com/a/ja5adTs[/url]
While Madara is impressed by the chakra, there is no mention of its "density" at any point in the fight. He does mention speed though, immediately before the space-bending feat itself. I think that makes it very clear how we're supposed to read it.
There's only one way for this fight to end: All Might and Might Guy performing the manliest handshake of all time before All Might asks Guy how to be a good teacher. He probably asks Guy to teach Izuku some martial arts so the kid'll stop breaking his bones to combat opponents (gonna say this takes place after the Entrance Exam but before he starts school).