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DC 5G: the Replacements
[url]https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/10/07/gossip-luke-fox-batman-jonathan-kent-superman-dc-comics-5gt/[/url]
The new rumor is that [I]all[/I] major DC heroes will be getting new legacy iterations. This isn’t a thread to discuss whether or not you like this. This is a thread to fan craft just who you would chose to ascend to the titles next.
[LIST][*]Superman:[*]Wonder Woman:[*]Batman:[*]Aquaman:[*]Green Lantern:[*]Flash:[*][/LIST]
Just throwing a sample list for Justice Leaguers there, but feel free to try out any identity!
The rumor is that they’ll be unconventional choices, so be creative!
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I’m going to begin using the ones that seem likely based on present rumors, and then fill in the blanks
[LIST][*]Superman: [B]Jon Kent[/B][*]Wonder Woman: Atlantiades[*]Batman: [B]Luke Fox[/B][*]Aquaman: Jackson Hyde / Kaldur’ahm[*]Green Lantern: Carol Ferris[*]Flash: Avery Ho[*][/LIST]
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Not gonna lie, another All New All Different: DC Edition doesn't sound appealing to me.
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Superman- Goku
Batman- Piccolo
Wonder Woman- Eighteen
Flash- Goku
Green Lantern- Future Trunks
Aquaman- Gohan
Plastic Man- Krillin
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Are we allowed to go Elseworlds on it or does it have to build off our current continuity? I'm going to treat more full Elseworld, because that's the only way for it to be interesting to me, even for a one-off. Also, characters of very different ages can be similarly-aged in an Elseworld.
Superman - Well, we've seen Kon do future-Superman before. Same for Jon, though markedly less so. I'd like to go with some version of Chris Kent, abused child adopted by Lois and Clark. Make him late teens or early 20s (going for a youthful group here to make them more different).
Wonder Woman - I wasn't really sure if we should keep her Amazon or not. She'd be very different if not, but different is kind good here. Maybe daughter of Barda and Scott. They don't have one, but it's an Elseworld.
Batman - I'm so tempted to say Cass Cain, but an audience will not, I think, take to a female Bat[b]man[/b]. Dick, Tim, and Damian have been done to death in various ways. Maybe a late-20s Jason, whose healed and come back into the fold only to have Bruce die and him questioning if he would have if killing had been on the table.
Aquaman - Don't know his characters as well. If keeping the Atlantis connection, I want an actual born-and-raised Atlantean, preferably non-ruler. This can be an alternate background for an existing character, or an OC.
Green Lantern - Milagro Reyes, mostly because her fans would like it. Mid 20s.
Flash - Jesse Quick, in her late 20s. Doesn't have the same strong ties to her predecessor as some of the others.
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You know... If they are going to replace Bruce for Luke, who's going to be his Robin? Because I'm pretty sure it's not going to be Damian. Which brings to the table that Luke and Jon Kent don't have any history, at all, which makes the partnership between Batman and Superman useless.
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He probably won't have one. Damian will probably keep the Robin role.
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[QUOTE=Digifiend;4614373]He probably won't have one. Damian will probably keep the Robin role.[/QUOTE]
I don't see it. I definitely don't see it happening.
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4614370]You know... If they are going to replace Bruce for Luke, who's going to be his Robin? Because I'm pretty sure it's not going to be Damian. Which brings to the table that Luke and Jon Kent don't have any history, at all, which makes the partnership between Batman and Superman useless.[/QUOTE]
Well, I mean, Bruce and Clark didn't have any history at all, either, until they built it. All relationships have to start somewhere. Not that that [i]this[/i] Batman and Superman have to be particular friends. I get kinda tired of the same two costumes being friends each generation, no matter who is in them.
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[QUOTE=Tzigone;4614386]Well, I mean, Bruce and Clark didn't have any history at all, either, until they built it. All relationships have to start somewhere. Not that that [i]this[/i] Batman and Superman have to be particular friends. I get kinda tired of the same two costumes being friends each generation, no matter who is in them.[/QUOTE]
It's not the same case. At this point, they depend on this particular partnership to sell, and there is even the point against it that Damian does have a relationship with Jon*. Luke is so isolated of everyone else that's just... It's not going to work sales wise if they want that Batman to interact with other heroes outside the Bats.
The most similar circumstances I can recall like this one is Kyle being the GL. That was rocky, and the Lanterns were already more, I don't know, open to be on more than one "hand" at that point.
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[QUOTE=Tzigone;4614386]Well, I mean, Bruce and Clark didn't have any history at all, either, until they built it. All relationships have to start somewhere. Not that that [i]this[/i] Batman and Superman have to be particular friends. I get kinda tired of the same two costumes being friends each generation, no matter who is in them.[/QUOTE]
Jon may be 11 going on 17 going on 18 but luke is 24+ former marine and engineer student, so i guess it will be like the interaction Batgirl has with supergirl
Its not that I dont want Jon to make new friends but geez did damian even get to introduce him to nightwing
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I refuse to give BC clicks because they are just the worst. But if this becomes true, DC is about to save me a metric ton of cash on new books! If "everything counts" now moving forward, judging off the timeline presentation, I have a good 50 years worth of DC back issues I've never read that I can catch up on.
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[QUOTE=Robanker;4614359]Not gonna lie, another All New All Different: DC Edition doesn't sound appealing to me.[/QUOTE]
Well, like I said, the topic here isn't meant to be "how do you feel about this?", but "how would you do this?"
[QUOTE=Tzigone;4614368]Are we allowed to go Elseworlds on it or does it have to build off our current continuity? I'm going to treat more full Elseworld, because that's the only way for it to be interesting to me, even for a one-off. Also, characters of very different ages can be similarly-aged in an Elseworld.[/QUOTE]
I was thinking more of a current continuity take, to give it some grounding in speculation and relevance. But no real worries.
[QUOTE=Clark_Kent;4614435]I refuse to give BC clicks because they are just the worst. But if this becomes true, DC is about to save me a metric ton of cash on new books! If "everything counts" now moving forward, judging off the timeline presentation, I have a good 50 years worth of DC back issues I've never read that I can catch up on.[/QUOTE]
BleedingCool has a very solid track record in terms of rumor accuracy.
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[QUOTE=Tzigone;4614368]
Batman - I'm so tempted to say Cass Cain, but an audience will not, I think, take to a female Bat[b]man[/b]. Dick, Tim, and Damian have been done to death in various ways. Maybe a late-20s Jason, whose healed and come back into the fold only to have Bruce die and him questioning if he would have if killing had been on the table.
[/QUOTE]
Cass as The Black Bat and the main character in the Batman universe would be amazing!
But, alas, it is wishful thinking according to reports on BleedingCool who is stating that it will be Lucious Fox.
I do think that Damian as Batman 666 would be pretty amazing, but that would require a time jump.
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Go as crazy as possible I say.
[B]Anything[/B] to to be rid of the current silver/bronze age stench.
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Wonder Woman will probably be Wilson's pet character Maggie. I could see the explanation for Diana leaving the role is that she eventually hooks up with Atlantiedes and they spirit off to Olympus together or something. Bruce fakes his death and maybe marries Selina. Superman retires in wake of his duties as Earth President.
By the way this is all stupid and ridiculous and will fail horribly.
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I dont know what to think about this, specially because of the idea of Jonathan Kent replacing Superman but Damian wont replace Batman, not necesarily that he deserves or needs to be Batman now but its just that something feels off about it.
and I also think that there is a major problem with the whole idea of replacing Batman AGAIN.
it just never sticks and its hard to see this one sticking as well.
I do however will put a very controversial statement
Wonder Woman's replacement is way overdue
compared to the other 2, it just feels like WW has no legacy of her own
mainly because of the constant rebooting that she has had in the last couple of years, from the All-New WW to Azzarello and then Rucka's Year one, I would even throw WW Earth One on there too.
there is just too many versions and reinventions of Diana. and on top of that there is no real version of Donna Troy, just how many "Who is Donna Troy?" storylines do we need to have without answering the question.
so I applaud the idea of a new WW who isnt Diana.
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Heh, I wouldn't mind Jason stepping in the cowl, for good reasons and in good ways. It could be actually pretty cool having him for a while, I think.
But he really needs the right reasons and the right mindset to get to that point, a good story that would justify him dismissing his own ideals and ways. And rigjt now, he is not there.
I don't know about other leaguers, but maybe a female Flash could be cool. Or even Wally again, if he acchieves redepntion.
Wonder Woman Diana could be a constant in the League in the new continuity. But, to be honest, I don't know who could replace her either.
I would like other Super that weren't Jon, to be honest. But, on the other hand, Jason is family to Damian, and Supes Jon would be big brothery to him, which sort of reminss me that Young Dick's relationship with Clark was strong.
I don't know about the remaining members.
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[QUOTE=Sacred Knight;4614492]Wonder Woman will probably be Wilson's pet character Maggie. I could see the explanation for Diana leaving the role is that she eventually hooks up with Atlantiedes and they spirit off to Olympus together or something. Bruce fakes his death and maybe marries Selina. Superman retires in wake of his duties as Earth President.
[B]By the way this is all stupid and ridiculous and will fail horribly.[/B][/QUOTE]
With all the crap Marvel got for "doing" the same thing-why do that here? Especially if POC are used.
Why put yourself through that? This would be better if you just did a series of Elseworld books for say a year.
Because what happens if the replacement does a Jane Foster? You know have better sales than the original?
What if Luke as Batman has higher sales? DC's track record (Wally West & Cassandra Cain) says it does not end well. However Azrael had a 100 issue run after being Batman.
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Crazy Idea we wouldn’t see coming: Wally West (the Original) as the Flash
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Okay, if we're doing replacements we might as well go stupid with it!
Superman's replacement is......Superman! From the New52! T-shirt and jeans, Golden Age power levels! A multiverse refugee from the dark multiverse, Morrison's masterpiece finds his way to the prime earth to take over for his "cousin" while Rebirth-Reborn-current Clark is absorbed by his duties as earth president. How does Nuperman handle threats like Mongul, Darkseid, and Brainiac when he can only leap tall buildings? And will the world respect him when he doesn't have the raw power they expect from Superman? When even Superboy is more powerful, is a Superman still a Superman?
Batman's replacement is.......whoever. I don't care, as long as its not Dick (his story shouldn't end in the Bat cowl! He's his own man). We'll just take Terry from Batman Beyond and port him over.
We'll have Nubia take over for Diana.
Wally West's daughter from Kingdom Come should take over as Flash. I forget her name.
Aquaman can be replaced by Jason Mamoa.
Green Lantern's newest recruit can be Lois Lane.
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[QUOTE=Ascended;4614522]Wally West's daughter from Kingdom Come should take over as Flash. I forget her name.[/QUOTE]
How can you forget?
It's Iris!
XD
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This is fine if they want to introduce it as something that runs parallel with what's already familiar, but if it outright REPLACES what's familiar, we're looking down the barrel of something that might make the New 52 outrage seem like a minor quibble by comparison.
[COLOR=RED]Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)[/color]
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[QUOTE=H-E-D;4614358]I’m going to begin using the ones that seem likely based on present rumors, and then fill in the blanks
[LIST][*]Superman: [B]Jon Kent[/B][*]Wonder Woman: Atlantiades[*]Batman: [B]Luke Fox[/B][*]Aquaman: Jackson Hyde / Kaldur’ahm[*]Green Lantern: Carol Ferris[*]Flash: Avery Ho[*][/LIST][/QUOTE]
I was kind of hoping carol Ferris would stay as star sapphire.
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[QUOTE=H-E-D;4614358]I’m going to begin using the ones that seem likely based on present rumors, and then fill in the blanks
[LIST][*]Superman: [B]Jon Kent[/B][*]Wonder Woman: Atlantiades[*]Batman: [B]Luke Fox[/B][*]Aquaman: Jackson Hyde / Kaldur’ahm[*]Green Lantern: Carol Ferris[*]Flash: Avery Ho[*][/LIST][/QUOTE]
Who's Atlantiades?
[QUOTE=Zaresh;4614370]You know... If they are going to replace Bruce for Luke, who's going to be his Robin? Because I'm pretty sure it's not going to be Damian. Which brings to the table that Luke and Jon Kent don't have any history, at all, which makes the partnership between Batman and Superman useless.[/QUOTE]
Duke. Make it all black. Lol
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;4614425]Jon may be 11 going on 17 going on 18 but luke is 24+ former marine and engineer student, so i guess it will be like the interaction Batgirl has with supergirl
Its not that I dont want Jon to make new friends but geez did damian even get to introduce him to nightwing[/QUOTE]
Wait he's former marine now? What happened to the MMA? or was that always been his origin?
[QUOTE=Sacred Knight;4614492]Wonder Woman will probably be Wilson's pet character Maggie. I could see the explanation for Diana leaving the role is that she eventually hooks up with Atlantiedes and they spirit off to Olympus together or something. Bruce fakes his death and maybe marries Selina. Superman retires in wake of his duties as Earth President.
By the way this is all stupid and ridiculous and will fail horribly.[/QUOTE]
Who's Maggie? New character?
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[QUOTE=Zaresh;4614370]You know... If they are going to replace Bruce for Luke, who's going to be his Robin? Because I'm pretty sure it's not going to be Damian. Which brings to the table that Luke and Jon Kent don't have any history, at all, which makes the partnership between Batman and Superman useless.[/QUOTE]
I wonder which members of the various families will still be around?
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I'm for doing temp replacements and let's be honest for Supes, Bats, and Wondy it's temps but doing all at once would be dumb.
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The last few years, and last few major runs, of many of those main books, Superman & Batman in particular, but also plenty of others ... have all done the Replacement storyline. A bunch. I'll still read a good book and try stuff out but it'd be ridiculous not to point out that "A Replacement" is like ... the ONLY story that's been told lately with most of these characters, where the title character is MIA and some newcomer is wearing the costume for some reason.
So off the top of my head Batman has been Dick & Gordon recently, as well as alt-future versions of Tim & Damian for interludes. Of course he was also historically Azrael, and Dick again. Superman has been Mon-El recently, going by Valor, while Supes was in New Krypton. Superman has also been Lex Luthor lately. Naturally he was Val-Zod but that was in another Universe. He was also Two Different Supermen simultaneously, in addition to Depowered Superman. Aquaman was dead more recently, has come back and remained pretty consistent, actually - he mostly just vacillates between being a scruffy bearded pirate and a clean cut guy. Wonder Woman has definitely been Donna Troy in recent history. These are 'mostly' important chapters in well-received, good runs on comics. These are all also short-lived. Flash has been Wally and Barry, Just Barry, Just Wally, Just Bart, and so forth, recently. And Jay. Who exists sometimes. But not all the time, but for whom ALL Flashes are Replacements. Kyle Rayner was the only primary GL for an entire decade. Green Lantern was Baz & Cruz for a hot minute there. It was decent.
More to the point I guess ... I'm mostly okay with the Replacement storyline occurring in one or both the Superman books and Batman books and specifically just ... the characters who are being Superman and Batman. I'd generally like most of the rest of the supporting casts to stay the same or be pretty unaffected. We did Batman Reborn and New Krypton simultaneously and it was very cool to see Dick-Batman team up with Kryptonian-Military-Superman and so forth. You'll naturally always do the "The New Superman teams with the New Batman" angle. We had Jim Gordon Robo-Batman team up with Depowered Superman (and super-spy Grayson). It's an evergreen trope.
Anyway I'm also okay with good stories that tell stories about inspired people taking up the mantle of a hero, I'm cool with new angles to look at classic story settings and tropes in and to get some fresh creative blood into these things. I'm cool with diversity if it feels natural, powerful and relevant, and not like bland corporate kneejerk reaction to woke internet articles. So I'm hotly anticipating this news and some of the line-ups of books.
Then there's the part where The Batman comes out in July 2021 so whatever bold new direction they take is only going to last two years until they really want to cash in by having books that feature Bruce Wayne as Batman. But I think we all at least probably tend to suspect that'll be the case. Two years can be a cool comic run with great art, great moments and a memorable "sticks with you" storyline.
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[QUOTE=H-E-D;4614358]I’m going to begin using the ones that seem likely based on present rumors, and then fill in the blanks
[LIST][*]Superman: [B]Jon Kent[/B][*]Wonder Woman: Atlantiades[*]Batman: [B]Luke Fox[/B][*]Aquaman: Jackson Hyde / Kaldur’ahm[*]Green Lantern: Carol Ferris[*]Flash: Avery Ho[*][/LIST][/QUOTE]
Why promote Atlantiades when Donna is around?
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I think the real gauging of this is whether it's an out-of-continuity stories set in the future or actual relaunches of all the main titles replacing everybody.
I don't see the latter succeeding at all.
[QUOTE=king81992;4614643]Why promote Atlantiades when Donna is around?[/QUOTE]
'Cuz DC doesn't really care about Donna and won't let other Wonder Woman writers use her...
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Didn't we go through this in the 90's?
To counter the JL retro-silver-bronze-age revival;
My unapologetically 90s Earth [B][I]eXtreme![/I][/B] team ....
The eXtreme Replacements; that required their predecessors all be; eXtreme de-powered, character assassinated, insane, crippled, or [I]dead![/I] While the "new" heroes take over and pull the [I]I have to live up to the legacy[/I] angst, while simultaneously sh*ting all over the past, so they can take over, ...eXtremely! LOL!
[CENTER]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/wqxioIu.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Jg6XZiP.jpg?1[/IMG][/CENTER]
Also comes with eXtreme angst [I]poses! [/I]
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I really hate the idea of doing a blanket transition. I'm all for legacy and progression in the medium and timeline but each franchise should handle it on its own terms, with its own stories unique to the characters. Not just slapdash change everyone at the same time.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;4614692]I think the real gauging of this is whether it's an out-of-continuity stories set in the future or actual relaunches of all the main titles replacing everybody.
I don't see the latter succeeding at all.
'Cuz DC doesn't really care about Donna and won't let other Wonder Woman writers use her...[/QUOTE]
Donna getting promoted to WW would give her character much needed stability. Atlantiades was just introduced and her identity as Aphrodite's daughter is pretty stable.
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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4614590]
Who's Maggie? New character?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, new supporting character that Wilson introduced in her run. Hell she's started donning Amazon gear now according to the latest preview.
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I find it interesting that DC feels the need to introduce a new generation after ignoring the previous like 3 or 4.
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[QUOTE=king81992;4614643]Why promote Atlantiades when Donna is around?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/TNSANN_1_4-1-2-e1490736298639-600x336.jpg[/IMG]
becasue Forget donna Forget artemis Forget Cassie
[video=youtube;bKxodgpyGec]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKxodgpyGec[/video]
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[QUOTE=Güicho;4614701]Didn't we go through this in the 90's?
To counter the JL retro-silver-bronze-age revival;
The unapologetically 90s Earth [B][I]eXtreme![/I][/B] team ....
The eXtreme Replacements; that required their predecessors all be; eXtreme de-powered, crippled, insane, character assassinated, or [I]dead![/I]
So they could take over, ...eXtremely! LOL!
[CENTER]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/wqxioIu.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Jg6XZiP.jpg?1[/IMG][/CENTER][/QUOTE]
I'll take it!
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I'll just ride out the wave like every other replacement story that has happened in the past few decades. If they can get good writers on some of these series then I'll give them a chance at least to be good, and who knows it may surprise me.
As I've said in other threads though I'm more indifferent then anything, this isn't character assassination that would make me angry or anything that would make me hyped. At this point its just the continuing cycle we've seen before.
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[QUOTE=Buried Alien;4614573]This is fine if they want to introduce it as something that runs parallel with what's already familiar, but if it outright REPLACES what's familiar, we're looking down the barrel of something that might make the New 52 outrage seem like a minor quibble by comparison.
[COLOR=RED]Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)[/color][/QUOTE]
Which I think is great. Maybe fandom (and editorial) needs an all-out, all franchise encompassing war before learning that breaking other kids toys is not cool.
Do like brazilian mothers do: BREAK ALL THE TOYS, NO ONE PLAYS. Leads to a bit a crying at first, and a more peaceful tomorrow.
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[QUOTE=Dred;4614707]I really hate the idea of doing a blanket transition. I'm all for legacy and progression in the medium and timeline but each franchise should handle it on its own terms, with its own stories unique to the characters. Not just slapdash change everyone at the same time.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this is basically going against legacy just to go with "surprising choices."