What happened with Mark Waid and Scott Lobdell?

Hey guys, hoping you can help me with something. I’m reading through the entire adjectiveless X-Men series, and I’ve reached the all-too brief Mark Waid era (issues 50-56, roughly.) I tried to find an interview or a story of what exactly happened, and the only things I could find were a reference to it being “disastrous” and Waid himself referring to it as “my and Andy’s (Kubert) abortive run on X-Men.”

Does anyone know more details about this? Or have a link to the fuller story? I can guess what happened, but I’d love to know more.

Grant

Something definitely went on, I spoke to Scott Lobdell once and asked him a few things and I didn't feel like he got on too well with Waid.
One of the things I asked Scott about was the weird "did Legion rape his own mother" in Legion Quest page, and he denied ever writing it and was saying it must have been Mark.

Mark Waid is a great writer when he's on his game, while Scott Lobdell is mediocre on his best days and is a known sexual harasser.

[QUOTE=misty101;5078240]Something definitely went on, I spoke to Scott Lobdell once and asked him a few things and I didn't feel like he got on too well with Waid.
One of the things I asked Scott about was the weird "did Legion rape his own mother" in Legion Quest page, and he denied ever writing it and was saying it must have been Mark.[/QUOTE]

God I would love to interview Scott and/or any of the other writers (Nicieza, Kelly, Seagle, etc.) about this whole period. I always got the feeling that none of them were allowed to do much “writing,” and that Bob Harras was, for the most part, the “writer” of both books, from the departure of Jim Lee in 1992 all the way up to his termination in 2000.

But I have no references or proof of that...

[QUOTE=H-E-D;5078264]Mark Waid is a great writer when he's on his game, while Scott Lobdell is mediocre on his best days and is a known sexual harasser.[/QUOTE]

a sexual harasser? really? what happened?

[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5078269]a sexual harasser? really? what happened?[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.comicsbeat.com/scott-lobdell-i-apologize-to-marinaomi/[/url]
[url]https://bleedingcool.com/comics/sexual-harassment-comics-industry-again/[/url]
[url]https://www.comicsbeat.com/scott-lobdell-harassment-allegations/[/url]

for starters.

[QUOTE=rockgrant;5078268]God I would love to interview Scott and/or any of the other writers (Nicieza, Kelly, Seagle, etc.) about this whole period. I always got the feeling that none of them were allowed to do much “writing,” and that Bob Harras was, for the most part, the “writer” of both books, from the departure of Jim Lee in 1992 all the way up to his termination in 2000.

But I have no references or proof of that...[/QUOTE] DM him on instagram, he normally will answer any questions

[QUOTE=rockgrant;5078268]God I would love to interview Scott and/or any of the other writers (Nicieza, Kelly, Seagle, etc.) about this whole period. I always got the feeling that none of them were allowed to do much “writing,” and that Bob Harras was, for the most part, the “writer” of both books, from the departure of Jim Lee in 1992 all the way up to his termination in 2000.

But I have no references or proof of that...[/QUOTE]

Sean Howe's book Marvel Comics : The Untold Story is chocabloc with interesting snippets from this time.

[QUOTE=H-E-D;5078271][url]https://www.comicsbeat.com/scott-lobdell-i-apologize-to-marinaomi/[/url]
[url]https://bleedingcool.com/comics/sexual-harassment-comics-industry-again/[/url]
[url]https://www.comicsbeat.com/scott-lobdell-harassment-allegations/[/url]

for starters.[/QUOTE]

oh wow that is crazy thank you.

Onslaught happened, that was enough.

I remember Mark wanted to write about Prof. X's love of Jean Grey referencing the first issue and Scott thought it made Prof. X a creepy pedophile and the two argued about it. I think it was a word balloon podcast with Lobdel around his new 52 Superman run time, I don't remember for sure.

[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5078288]oh wow that is crazy thank you.[/QUOTE]

There's also the time he went after Ron Marz for calling out Fox News' racism.

[url]https://bleedingcool.com/comics/recent-updates/fanboy-rampage-scott-lobdell-vs-ron-marz/[/url]

[QUOTE=H-E-D;5078635]There's also the time he went after Ron Marz for calling out Fox News' racism.

[url]https://bleedingcool.com/comics/recent-updates/fanboy-rampage-scott-lobdell-vs-ron-marz/[/url][/QUOTE]

well I knew there was a reason I didn't like him. this explains the sh!tty writing of storm when he was on the xmen.

The big publicly-known points of disagreement I remember reading about - though they may not be the ones that drove Waid off the book - were:

- Waid wanted to write that callback to [I]X-Men [/I]#3 and Xavier's crush on Jean. Lobdell thought this was something that should not be brought up again.
- Waid wanted Onslaught to be purely the manifestation of Xavier's dark side, while in the final version Lobdell and others added that bit about Onslaught being partly a manifestation of Magneto, so it wouldn't all be Xavier's fault.

I have to say that though Waid is a better writer, I think Lobdell was right on both counts. Xavier being in love with Jean was something that was abandoned after one panel (from a time when Lee and Kirby probably hadn't even decided how old Xavier was) and should not have been dredged up as a plot point, and trying to demonize Xavier is something that I'm not a fan of, even though I'm also not a fan of portraying him as a saintly figure.

I heard also he wasn't much of an X-Men fan. I can't remember where I read it. It was around the end of his run. I'm almost positive it was pre- internet.