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[QUOTE=Cody;5579133]Like I said, Zamasu didn't just have physical immortality, as space time erasure didn't impact him at all. Even when he was destroyed physically he just ended up becoming one with the "multiverse" and was quickly leaking through space and time as he was about to assimilate with the "multiverse" across time and space.
Spirits are impacted by it however, and if that is what Madoka is, and if she isn't explicitly immortal...[/QUOTE]
No, [I]regular [/I]magical girls in her universe are spirits (well, technically liches). She's... explicitly not that. She's more along the lines of "one with time and space" that you mentioned.
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[QUOTE=big_adventure;5579085]I'm not familiar with the character, but...
I doubt it would work that way in Khazan, unless she has feats for working in an area where she has been specifically kicked out of / had her body destroyed. Omnipresent seems like a concept that works in universe, but Khazan isn't really in the source universe.
For example: Nate Grey, in "powerful" mode, is just fine actually doing stuff without a body, and has feats for it.
OTOH, if she can fly/teleport and survive in space and hostile environments, she may be able to just come back.[/QUOTE]
She has no body, and yes, has feats of teleporting/surviving in space. Basically her deal is just appearing a split second before a magical girl becomes a witch, defeating that witch and collecting that magical girl's soul. Her greatest feat is appearing in space and one-shotting herself - in witch form - which, if my memory is correct, was the size of a planet. She does this to every magical girl, everywhere, at any time in the past, present and future in her universe (to the extent that her universe' laws are rewritten so that magical girls never did turn into witches in the first place).
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[QUOTE=Twickster;5579522]She has no body, and yes, has feats of teleporting/surviving in space. Basically her deal is just appearing a split second before a magical girl becomes a witch, defeating that witch and collecting that magical girl's soul. Her greatest feat is appearing in space and one-shotting herself - in witch form - which, if my memory is correct, was the size of a planet. She does this to every magical girl, everywhere, at any time in the past, present and future in her universe (to the extent that her universe' laws are rewritten so that magical girls never did turn into witches in the first place).[/QUOTE]
Well, in the ToP she might be screwed simply because coming back isn't possible once you're knocked out, and planet-busting (where you make it seem she tops out at by feats) is "I ignore this and dish it by mistake" levels for top-level DBS fighters.
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[QUOTE=big_adventure;5579758]Well, in the ToP she might be screwed simply because coming back isn't possible once you're knocked out, and planet-busting (where you make it seem she tops out at by feats) is "I ignore this and dish it by mistake" levels for top-level DBS fighters.[/QUOTE]
My point being that I don't think she's even "hittable" since she's an incorporeal universal entity. No body, can't be knocked out. She doesn't even occupy "space", since she's everywhere and nowhere at once. She's more of a concept - a "principle" of the universe that destroys witches.
On her damage output, I'd place her vaguely above planet busting, since her witch form is the size of a planet, and witches are much more durable than their size would suggest (i.e. the building-sized Walpurgisnacht was no-selling a barrage of JSDF weaponry to no effect). The fact that she [I]one-shots[/I] her witch form suggests that the power output was quite a bit higher than planet busting itself (although of course by how much is unquantifiable). I'd be comfortable saying she's above one-shotting a planet, but nowhere near solar-system busting, which I know a lot of the DBZ folks are.
What I'm trying to say is that barring esoteric conceptual shenanigans*, Madoka'a a very tough one to pin down in a battle. She's not winning the ToP if there's someone around with those sorts of abilities, and her power output is a bit lacking as far as top-tier DBZ is concerned, but simply blasting her with force won't do.
*Edit: Looking back at the last episode, it appears that her nature does appear to be multiversal. Kyubey explicitly mentions that "it is beyond just alternate timelines" (which were granted to even regular Homura). Another character mentions that she will be "fighting everywhere, in all realities, throughout all of time".
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Relevant scenes involving God-Madoka here from 01:00 to 13:30 (heavy spoilers for those who haven't seen the series):
[video]https://4anime.biz/watch/puella-magi-madoka-magica-zOw-episode-12/[/video]
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She sounds like a pretty bad matchup for Rumbles.
That whole "doesn't actually have a body" thing might DQ her from the ToP before she even starts. If she's everywhere, she's also out of the arena.
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[QUOTE=big_adventure;5579843]She sounds like a pretty bad matchup for Rumbles.
That whole "doesn't actually have a body" thing might DQ her from the ToP before she even starts. If she's everywhere, she's also out of the arena.[/QUOTE]
I'd say she's perfectly fine for Rumbles (at least as fine as Saitama, as far as vague levels of power but quantifiable high-end feats are concerned).
Perhaps not too well for the ToP, on the other hand.
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[QUOTE=big_adventure;5579843]She sounds like a pretty bad matchup for Rumbles.
That whole "doesn't actually have a body" thing might DQ her from the ToP before she even starts. If she's everywhere, she's also out of the arena.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, being outside of the arena isn't illegal, as long as she's also inside the arena. A lot of contestants got knocked out of the ring but weren't DQ'd as long as they were able to get back into the ring without breaking any of the other rules.
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[QUOTE=Twickster;5579880]I'd say she's perfectly fine for Rumbles (at least as fine as Saitama, as far as vague levels of power but quantifiable high-end feats are concerned).
Perhaps not too well for the ToP, on the other hand.[/QUOTE]
I just mean bad in the sense that, from what it sounds like, you need someone who can reality warp or [I]maybe[/I] energy manipulate on a pretty massive scale to deal with her. And people like that wouldn't bother fighting her because her damage output is stupidly below what it takes to make them turn their heads and bother to look. So it's either stomp or be stomped, and a "good" match isn't that, for me.
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[QUOTE=The Drunkard Kid;5579951]To be fair, being outside of the arena isn't illegal, as long as she's also inside the arena. A lot of contestants got knocked out of the ring but weren't DQ'd as long as they were able to get back into the ring without breaking any of the other rules.[/QUOTE]
That's rules lawyering, and to make that work, you need to impress Xeno 1 or Xeno 2. The argument could just as easily be made that she's [I]always[/I] out of the ring, and in fact, that the overwhelming majority of her is always out of the ring. None of the contestants who were nearly ringed out left the overwhelming majority of themselves out of the ring.
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[QUOTE=big_adventure;5579965]I just mean bad in the sense that, from what it sounds like, you need someone who can reality warp or [I]maybe[/I] energy manipulate on a pretty massive scale to deal with her. And people like that wouldn't bother fighting her because her damage output is stupidly below what it takes to make them turn their heads and bother to look. So it's either stomp or be stomped, and a "good" match isn't that, for me.[/QUOTE]
Well magic tends to bugger stuff up that don't have a specific resistance to it, so as long as it is magical in nature, she could very well harm those with far higher damage output than she.
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[QUOTE=Cody;5580456]Well magic tends to bugger stuff up that don't have a specific resistance to it, so as long as it is magical in nature, she could very well harm those with far higher damage output than she.[/QUOTE]
Without feats for same, it doesn't work that way here, as you know. Twikster's expression of her feats was "she appears right before a magic girl becomes a witch and kills her" which doesn't scare high-end DB people at all. She'll never hit them, them being way faster, and if she somehow does, they will literally ignore it, as planet-busting is not even an itch to scratch to them.
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[QUOTE=big_adventure;5580732]Without feats for same, it doesn't work that way here, as you know. Twikster's expression of her feats was "she appears right before a magic girl becomes a witch and kills her" which doesn't scare high-end DB people at all. She'll never hit them, them being way faster, and if she somehow does, they will literally ignore it, as planet-busting is not even an itch to scratch to them.[/QUOTE]
I'd say she can conceivably hit them just fine because - Magic! - but by highest displayed power output, can't hurt the lot of them if they're shrugging off solar system busters and above.
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I mean, resisting magic and esoterics because they are significantly more powerful than the people that cast them is something that they've explicitly done ever since the Dragon Balls said that they are unable to wish away Saiyajin Saga Vegeta against his will because he is stronger than the Dragon's power source.
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Well it's something the characters we're familiar with have done, but we don't really understand the powers and powersources of everyone in the ToP that well. There's a lot of people running around the ToP who have more exotic powersets or no feats, or are robots or using supersuits or whatever. I'd be a little leery about extending the assumption of resilience to everyone there. I'd think that as a bare minimum, we should know or be pretty sure that they're using ki and are adept enough to raise it like the main characters do before we go assuming they can do things Vegeta can do.
Madoka being functionally omnipresent makes her more or less unbeatable here. Even if Destruction Energy could destroy her (and I don't really think it could, based on multiversal junk), well that's killing and against ToP's rules
Anyway, OP asked if they can hang in there for awhile. There's loads of guys running around the ToP who have no business being in the same fight as the main cast and otherwise have few or no feats at all, or very nebulous ones, so I don't think anyone really needs to be in the ballpark of the main cast to hack it as a b-lister here.