X-men unlimited 64. Age of apocalypse redux look how adorable baby magneto is.

Xavier: sabertooth is good and attractive?
Creed: you've been saying that non stop. Tell your dog to quit growing at my dog.
Xavier: sorry. Laura quit bullying wild child. But I spent a life time trying to reform you only to make you more savage. Yet here you are as hero.
Creed:hm. That seems like your a failure then

Xavier institute: Rouge, Ice man, sunfire,proteus, cypher, tempest, and magneto.

Magneto: it's good to see you Charles we need a miracle(reviled to be moria with baby magneto)
Xavier: what and how ?

Morianeto: well after marring Trask and building sentinel and nuking the planet I found out I was a mutant, I'm good now, founded xmen, and alpha the ultimate de age Eric to 6 months old and I built a suit to use his powers.
Cypher: I scaned you. We have 2 of your the 5, so we can build your utopia.
Xavier: wait, sinister knows this as well....

Sinister: so with this the 5 we can make a army you and rule the multiverse.
Apocalypse(he has arc-angel wings): a army of a billion me's suvive of the fittest on a worthy scale.
Sinister: and I get 10 plants to have a billion me ?
Apocalypse: no. Where are these 5
Sinister: they found hope, we have elixir and egg Dark child, Scott and his seeing eye boy, and sadly havoc lived and is with them. The xmen will attack our prision and we'll kill them there.

Xavier: so laura how do you like your noseless wolverine phase
Laura: incoherently growling
Xavier: ok, to me my xmen.

Did you noticed Laura first has both hands, but suddenly at the last panel one of het hands disappeared. Sloppy art work.

Not sure this is Apocalypse, or a further developed Archangel tbh.

So if I understood it's Apocalypse if Moira had lived through AoA and reset after the bombs, but could not prevent AoA for some reason ?
It makes no sense, but I liked the comics nevertheless. I prefered the previous issue where the pounded on the "Xavier is feeling useless and alone".

Would be very interested to see the "mutants don't see themselves as gods" crowd explain the line where Xavier himself says it

Easy. Xavier and Magneto do not actually speak for all mutants and never have and never will and oh yeah they both have massive egos so why would things the two of them said in a couple of conversations possibly count as ‘this is how mutantkind as a whole sees themselves.’

Meanwhile, I’d like to see the mutants see themselves as gods crowd explain stuff like Iceman explicitly identifying as part of communities with humans as much as part of a mutant community in his Bugle interview and his Infinity comic where he says he doesn’t want to think of himself as being a whole different species from his family, or Logan’s CONSTANT thoughts on how mutants are no different from humans for better or worse and make the same mistakes or show me where JP acts like he’s a god to his human husband or point me at the panels in Captain Marvel where the human heroes have to contend with their mutant companions’ god complexes.

Like, I have nothing to say about how Xavier and Magneto see mutantkind because I don’t need to. No matter their influence they are still just individuals and mutantkind is not a monolith. Cherry-picking from canon to support the conclusion that MUTANTKIND has a mass superiority complex, doesn't mean all that much if it requires ignoring tons of A-listers or spotlighted mutants who demonstrate absolutely nothing of the sort.

Magneto and Xavier’s take on Krakoa does not equal ‘this is what Krakoa means to all or even most mutants.’ It equals this is what it means to THEM.

[QUOTE=Dthirds3;6286192]Morianeto: well after marring Trask and building sentinel and nuking the planet I found out I was a mutant, I'm good now, founded xmen, and alpha the ultimate de age Eric to 6 months old and I built a suit to use his powers.[/QUOTE]

Not gonna lie, I misread the first half of this paragraph entirely. I thought it said,

“[I]Magneto: well, after marrying Trask and building a Sentinel-[/I]“

I probably don’t get the joke, but who’s Sunrise?

[QUOTE=Aeon;6286579]I probably don’t get the joke, but who’s Sunrise?[/QUOTE]

Misspelled sunfire

[QUOTE=Dthirds3;6286582]Misspelled sunfire[/QUOTE]

Oh… thanks :D

To be fair, they're running out of sun and fire synonyms for characters with fire/plasma/light based powers so you probably just predicted an inevitable future mutant. Hang on to this thread, you can say "Called it, was talking about her all along" when Sunrise debuts in five years.

[QUOTE=BobbysWorld;6286468]Easy. Xavier and Magneto do not actually speak for all mutants and never have and never will and oh yeah they both have massive egos so why would things the two of them said in a couple of conversations possibly count as ‘this is how mutantkind as a whole sees themselves.’

Meanwhile, I’d like to see the mutants see themselves as gods crowd explain stuff like Iceman explicitly identifying as part of communities with humans as much as part of a mutant community in his Bugle interview and his Infinity comic where he says he doesn’t want to think of himself as being a whole different species from his family, or Logan’s CONSTANT thoughts on how mutants are no different from humans for better or worse and make the same mistakes or show me where JP acts like he’s a god to his human husband or point me at the panels in Captain Marvel where the human heroes have to contend with their mutant companions’ god complexes.

Like, I have nothing to say about how Xavier and Magneto see mutantkind because I don’t need to. No matter their influence they are still just individuals and mutantkind is not a monolith. Cherry-picking from canon to support the conclusion that MUTANTKIND has a mass superiority complex, doesn't mean all that much if it requires ignoring tons of A-listers or spotlighted mutants who demonstrate absolutely nothing of the sort.

Magneto and Xavier’s take on Krakoa does not equal ‘this is what Krakoa means to all or even most mutants.’ It equals this is what it means to THEM.[/QUOTE]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/vVpAsU8.gif[/img]
Noice.

But like the books are mostly about the mutants who do. Immortal, Red, etc

I mean, I'll give you Immortal but like....most everyone on the Council comes across as a prick in general though. 3/4ths of the Council have massive superiority complexes in general, they think they're better than EVERYONE. That's kinda the point of that book. Ego vs ego.

And let's not pretend readers or characters anywhere are like....content with the Quiet Council as the spokespeople and guiding forces of mutantkind. Discontent about their leadership and views has been deliberately brewing since the start, and odds are it will come to a head in Fall of X in SOME fashion.

But saying that X-Men Red supports the idea of mutant superiority....that's a reach, IMO, and people reading into things what they want to read into things. I look at the reactions (both from characters and fans) to stuff like Craig of NASA in his appearance, the clear appreciation (again, from both characters and fans) of Richard Ryder and his aid, the fact that the Fisher King is one of the living legends and heroes of the Arakkii people, has a seat on their Night Table, fathered two of the focal Arakkii characters, AND was the one to send omega level Isca the Unbeaten herself packing......all without a single power to his name, and a lot of emphasis on the fact that he doesn't have the X-gene but is still very much considered being of Arakko, with no real distinction in how people treat him, his daughter WITH 'a weapon' and his daughter 'without a weapon'.....and I have the takeaway that there's way more nuance in how X-Men Red depicts human and mutant relations than you're giving it credit for. Again, Magneto's speech in it notwithstanding.

Just like I said before, he's ONE person, and I don't think Ororo necessarily agreed with everything he said in his deathbed speech so much as she was like, okay, this man is dying, I'm gonna let him speak.

I'd definitely agree that Isca and Ora Serrata express disdain for humanity, but much like with Immortal X-Men's cast, I see them as thinking they're better than everyone else anyway, human and mutant. And sure, Genesis will likely have Apocalypse-style views of humanity, but the cherry-picking thing I mentioned comes into play when that means still disregarding that I see no evidence that Lodus Logos, Xilo, Sobunar, Lactuca or Syzya of the Smoke care one bit whether someone's human or mutant....just what they DO with whatever tools they have at their disposal, whatever they or their source might be.

Add to that the fact that the main antagonist of X-Men Red so far is Abigail Brand, a mutant character who is actively working with Orchis, but specifically because she doesn't give a shit about mutant superiority, and albeit through the lens of her own massive superiority complex....is doing everything in pursuit of ascending the ENTIRE Sol System on the galactic stage. And even then, nothing in Ewing's narratives suggest that her ultimate goals are wrong, just how she's going about it. Y'know, with the whole aiding and abetting genocidal co-conspirators aspect. But there's clear nuance in the fact that the narrative itself has highlighted that she's not WRONG when she points out that she identifies as a spacer and not as human OR mutant, and that she objects to being defined by her relatively minute mutant power rather than just Abigail Brand, mutant/alien hybrid who identifies as neither but rather as both, and aims to be defined by her ambitions, schemes and authority instead.

SWORD, that book's precursor, similarly stressed the importance of communities beyond just mutant ones, as Manifold was very much attached to and concerned about his broader Australian community throughout the whole book.

And while people might not like Marauders as a whole, its time travel plot with Threshold definitely seems poised to have major ripple effects on the rest of the franchise, and Threshold is specifically depicted as a mutant AND human civilization, with their government consisting of two houses of congress, one made up of mutants, and one made up of humans, who they repeatedly stress they have plenty of respect for as equal members of their society.

Legion of X just doesn't have much to say about humanity, period, because its set entirely on Krakoa and Arakko and focused on the internal aspects of mutant society and culture. Humanity doesn't even get namedropped in its issues, not because of any superiority complex on the part of its mutant cast, but simply because humanity isn't relevant to the stories being told about the internal workings of two mutant societies. A concentrated focus on a brand new mutant civilization like Krakoa - in a book aimed at showcasing the development of this new mutant society - says nothing about that book or its cast's views on other societies.

X-Force is focused on nothing BUT Krakoan and mutant flaws, Wolverine spends more time off the island than on it in his solo and his supporting characters in that book are humans just as often as they're mutants. Similarly, LaValle's Sabretooth triptych spent its entire first series exposing the flaws of the Krakoan prison system and now in its second is tackling the Orchis prisons, with a very clear parallel about how hey this is bad no matter who's doing it and no matter who they're doing it to.

People like to ignore the fact that even if the main X-Men title doesn't have the same critical acclaim Red and Immortal gets, it is still very much the flagship book of a franchise where titling a book just adjectiveless X-Men is just as likely to draw readers as critical acclaim draws readers to the less established brand of Immortal X-Men. And that book is entirely about mutants saying we're not here to say mutants are better than humans BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT WE BELIEVE, we're just out to protect everyone everywhere regardless of who they might be. Hence why they tackle global and alien threats every bit as often as they do mutant-aimed threats. Cyclops outed mutant resurrection himself because he believed transparency was necessary for true human acceptance of Krakoa, half of X-Men's previous cast is now crossing over with Captain Marvel and teaming up with human heroes against the Brood, etc, etc.

Like, people like to be dismissive of how the X-Men acting as goodwill ambassadors towards humanity doesn't count as proof there's no mass superiority complex against humanity because oh that's just its premise....but how does it make sense to act like a team comprised of some of the franchise's most iconic X-Men....choosing to put their focus entirely on mutant/human relations and global protection for mutants and humans alike....just like they've literally ALWAYS done......somehow DOESN'T COUNT....when the biggest recurring criticism is the X-Men have changed and aren't doing what they used to do and are all acting like they're better than humans?!?!? LOLOL make it make sense!

Anyway, Ayala's New Mutants was full of mutant characters who didn't want to be separated from their human families and communities, internal problems posed by mutant bad actors, etc.....and now Charlie Jane Anders' focus in her story is on a mutant character who is literally voicing just as many of the common criticisms of the anti-Krakoa crowd as Orlando had characters voice from the pro-Krakoa crowd in his much more maligned Marauders Annual.

Ayala's other big contribution, Children of the Atom, wasn't well received but it nevertheless had a clear message of human/mutant solidarity between the mutant protagonist Carmen and her co-protagonists, every other one of whom was human and pro-mutant. X-Factor was like Legion of X in being mostly focused on internal Krakoan society, but nevertheless still had plots like Prodigy's investigation of his own murder, where he was just as focused on his murderer targeting other queer black men who WEREN'T mutants as he was focused on his own murder....which happened not because he was a mutant, but because he was a queer black man. The previous Marauders volume had its mutant characters helping human communities just as often as mutant ones, like when they brought the Morlocks along as aid to the human inhabitants of Madripoor who were having their community attacked and razed, and had former villains like Masque lending their powers pro bono to human hospitals, or when they rescued and relocated human refugees during King in Black, etc, etc.

We JUST finished a massive crossover clearly aimed at increasing interconnectivity between mutant and nonmutant parts of Marvel Earth, improving relations between mutants and humans, and with the big takeaway message....hey everybody should probably work on some self-awareness and improvement, just a thought.

I'll also give you that Howard's work on Excalibur and Knights of X hasn't exactly been nuanced in its depiction of human/mutant relations and views of each other, but let's not act like Howard's work is representative of the line or readers as a whole when we all know damn well she's one of the most criticized writers in the X-office right now and there's basically five posters on this forum who actually say they enjoy her stuff.

To wrap it all up....you do you, cuz people are going to see what they want to see, but it seems to me that people looking for more nuance in the books and mutant/human relations and views of each other.....kiiiiiinda lose credibility when they refuse to ever acknowledge any of the nuance that's already there.

Anyways, Magneto is the cutest X-baby.

[QUOTE=Nicoclaws;6287559]Anyways, Magneto is the cutest X-baby.[/QUOTE]

Gonna need someone to tell this Moira "Ma'am, that is a baby, not the Energizer bunny."