[QUOTE=Veitha;4634307]They even gave Breakworld survivors a home, right? Utopia was much more open than Krakoa and they were facing tougher times.[/QUOTE]
Yup they did
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[QUOTE=Veitha;4634307]They even gave Breakworld survivors a home, right? Utopia was much more open than Krakoa and they were facing tougher times.[/QUOTE]
Yup they did
[QUOTE=spirit2011;4634311]the difference is that gay people were never like that and they exist a lot more than poliamor.[/QUOTE]
There is no distinction. Lies are lies.
[QUOTE=tuck frump;4634312]Utopia didnt exist anymore at this point. Theres plenty of immigrants whose entire families cant come visit them bc of borders restrictions and its not treated as some human rights violations.[/QUOTE]
It is considered to be, though, if there's a blanket-travel-ban on a whole group of people preventing them from visiting?
[QUOTE=Killerbee911;4634294]They said the same thing about gay people a couple years back. If we are keeping it real and what is more funny is the bible has several cases of men with multiple wives. I don't have a horse this race but I am just saying you can pull stuff from "the great moral book" where God allows more than one wife. My point is it interesting what horse people want to ride on times.[/QUOTE]
Not even, bro. We know for a statistical fact that so-called 'gay predation' was a tactic used to demonize homosexuals in order to justify laws that punished them, and excuse attacking them. It was complete bullshit.
Rape associated with polygamy, though? Off the top of my head, boystown, Elizabeth Smart, Warren Jeffs, David Korresh. It's real, it's happening, it's gross, and it exclusively benefits the male in the dynamic. Just because some (and that 'some' is miniscule indeed) are capable of engaging in it doesn't make the association go away. It's not a witch hunt if they're dropping pumpkins on you from a broomstick.
You're totally right to be skeptical of moralists, but you're also too smart not to believe the evidence of your senses, to paraphrase Dickens.
[QUOTE=tuck frump;4634312]Utopia didnt exist anymore at this point. Theres plenty of immigrants whose entire families cant come visit them bc of borders restrictions and its not treated as some human rights violations.[/QUOTE]
Actually these kinds of rulings are often fought legally on human rights grounds depending upon the laws of the nations concerned.
Breakworld refugees were given a home in SF not Utopia. Russian girls and mutant families lived with the XMen in Graymalkin, there was never any mention of them after the move to Utopia. Once things got rough the mutants were on their own.
[QUOTE=Triniking1234;4634319]Utopia was run by Scott Summers and Emma Frost and wasn't on top of an island that didn't like the taste of flatscans.[/QUOTE]
I would have expected much more balance and open mindness from Xavier than Scott and Emma (especially at the time lol) but things change fast.
Yeah, I get that ultimately it's Krakoa's choice since it's not just a piece of rock but it's sentient, but the closeness is still a bit strange (there's reasons for it though so I can get behind it).
[QUOTE=Handsome men don't lose fights;4634323]Not even, bro. We know for a statistical fact that so-called 'gay predation' was a tactic used to demonize homosexuals in order to justify laws that punished them, and excuse attacking them. It was complete bullshit.
Rape associated with polygamy, though? Off the top of my head, boystown, Elizabeth Smart, Warren Jeffs, David Korresh. It's real, it's happening, it's gross, and it exclusively benefits the male in the dynamic. Just because some (and that 'some' is miniscule indeed) are capable of engaging in it doesn't make the association go away. It's not a witch hunt if they're dropping pumpkins on you from a broomstick[/QUOTE]
Using a few examples is EXACTLY what they did to spread the gay predation lies. There are not even particularly reliable statistics on polygamy and none of the crimes you list are more associated with it than so called normal sexuality.
[QUOTE=tuck frump;4634326]Breakworld refugees were given a home in SF not Utopia. Russian girls and mutant families lived with the XMen in Graymalkin, there was never any mention of them after the move to Utopia. Once things got rough the mutants were on their own.[/QUOTE]
It was Emmas decision to allow the russian girls in as well as families of mutant refugees
[QUOTE=tuck frump;4634326]Breakworld refugees were given a home in SF not Utopia. Russian girls and mutant families lived with the XMen in Graymalkin, there was never any mention of them after the move to Utopia. Once things got rough the mutants were on their own.[/QUOTE]
Oh ok on the refugees, but I always got the impression that mutant families moved there too, also because the island always looked heavily populated (definitely not inhabited by less than 198 people).
[QUOTE=Veitha;4634329]I would have expected much more balance and open mindness from Xavier than Scott and Emma (especially at the time lol) but things change fast.
Yeah, I get that ultimately it's Krakoa's choice since it's not just a piece of rock but it's sentient, but the closeness is still a bit strange (there's reasons for it though so I can get behind it).[/QUOTE]
Emmas school in the Snow Valley had human students and mutant students well before the Xavier Academy
[QUOTE=PrezValentine;4634123]The main problem with this concern over the poor, poor humans who can't get into Krakoa is that people are getting too hung up on futile philosophical implications and dismissing material, practical aspects. It doesn't matter if mutants can get in a high horse and try to be the "better ones" when their nation is beginning to establish itself. Down the line, when mutant-human relations are in a better state (so, when humans stop trying to actively terminate mutants, who aren't going to war with them, so far), humans should be allowed on the main land. Before that, Krakoa doesn't have the luxury of underestimating them and the threat they might represent. Even if good people get there, you can't guarantee that they won't be captured by anti-mutant forces and have the information extracted from them through torture or other inhumane methods.
It's really not that hard to understand.[/QUOTE]
It's hard to know if any human asking to visit Krakoa is an agent of Orchis or another terrorist organization trying to kill the mutants of Krakoa. It could be a new Omega Sentinel that will activate as soon as it touches land in Krakoa.
When one race is actively funding and supporting your extermination you pretty much have to take all precautions possible.
I get that some people don't understand, but technically even with all the peace agreements Krakoa is in a state of war because they are under constant attack attempts on mutants world wide. They just raided a base where 20 mutant children had been captured for experimentation and execution.
I am sure at some point we will find out if there is a VISA process for visiting family and friends on Krakoa.
With Moiras knowledge of Black Brain telepaths and that Nimrod created them I'm surprised they allowed so many mutants in with out thorough scans of everyone
[QUOTE=Handsome men don't lose fights;4634323]Not even, bro. We know for a statistical fact that so-called 'gay predation' was a tactic used to demonize homosexuals in order to justify laws that punished them, and excuse attacking them. It was complete bullshit.
Rape associated with polygamy, though? Off the top of my head, boystown, Elizabeth Smart, Warren Jeffs, David Korresh. It's real, it's happening, it's gross, and it exclusively benefits the male in the dynamic. Just because some (and that 'some' is miniscule indeed) are capable of engaging in it doesn't make the association go away. It's not a witch hunt if they're dropping pumpkins on you from a broomstick.
You're totally right to be skeptical of moralists, but you're also too smart not to believe the evidence of your senses, to paraphrase Dickens.[/QUOTE]
Search for Eric Esquivel.
Every type of relationship has problems, we don't gain anything thinking it is all perfect and fine. of course, as long as we are respectiful.
And is perfectly normal people not being into things. throw words like prudes doesn't help anyone.
anyway people ignoring characterizations for it to happen is bad and just force it into readers from nowhere
[QUOTE=Killerbee911;4634157]Except that when comes to safety issues 100% no exceptions is a fair stance because 1 slip up is all it takes. And humans don't need to come on Krakoa for humans and mutant relationship to get better. Coming on Krakoa does nothing for mutant /human reletionship The reason the example works when the husband proves that not he is not on alcohol and the wife feels comfortable he will be allowed some benefits. Mutants and the humans problems can be fix without Humans ever touching Krakoa. One day mutants are going to feel comfortable and the going to put down a settlement by the humans and if the humans don't kill the mutants it will be a step forward. Then more and more settlements will happen and before you know it humans and mutants are living together in peace.Without 1 human ever stepping foot on mainland Krakoa. The wife doesn't need to let husband into the house to fix the problem.[/QUOTE]
Again, HOW is Corsair a safety issue? How ANYONE is a safety issue to the Kraked when they have TOTAL control over who gets in and out of their country - something almost no other country on Earth can say they have, except some of the fictional ones like Wakanda for example. HOW? Please explain how Corsair, or any friend or loving parent of the mutant living on this island is a "safety issue" to the Kraked. I'm waiting for your demonstration.
[QUOTE=PrezValentine;4634166]Corsair is still one person, who lives in space and hasn't been exposed to the mutant hating culture. He works as an exception. The blanket ban is certainly not right in some sense, but it's more practical than counting on people's good heart.[/QUOTE]
Corsair is the example I used because he is the one sapien appearing in this issue, but there are more than enough people like him in 616 AND living on Earth right now to dismiss it as simply him being an exception to the rule.
[QUOTE=Triniking1234;4634169]Krakoa is now property of Xavier, Magneto and Moira and they say "No humans allowed". Do any of you allow people you don't like onto your private property? Geez, it's that simple.[/QUOTE]
Krakoa isn't a dictatorship as far as I know, let alone the property of three mutants. That's preposterous talk.
[QUOTE=jwatson;4634173]Sometimes the not everyone argument in my opinion seems like an easy way out safe space. It's easy to say Not all humans or not all this or that and then knowingly being the majority sitting back in safety and not getting out there to do anything to help or not adding your voice. It makes it hard to know who you can trust aside from those you already trust. The argument could be made on corsair not being in the main island and being an ally but there is nothing that said he couldn't go their in this issue and with images of Shogo on the main island it's still just forced assumption on lack of information and the word of one mutant. I would think if it was such a huge issue the council would have put it into law.[/QUOTE]
I'd rather be wrong than right about this issue, they are the X-MEN, not the BROTHERHOOD of evil mutants or the ACOLYTES… They are NOT supposed to hold such stance toward the rest of humanity.