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No, it would be wierd. If you want more ethnic minority based representation in the Superman franchise, have Steel or Natasha Irons show up more as supporting characters.
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If you talk about Kal El Superman I would dislike it the same way I'd dislike a Caucasian John Henry Irons STEEL; a Slavic Vixen; a Hispanic Kenan Kong (Superman of China); a Black Katana and so on.
WB wants a Superman movie? They get Cavil and make one. Its that simple if they stop being dicks about it.
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Only if it's a different character, like if they wanted to go with Val-Zod, or Calvin Ellis. That's its own thing, and I think it might be fun to see.
But if they just went with change for change's sake, and changed Clark Kent/Kal-El? No way! There's no reason to do that, and I've always been opposed to that. Create NEW characters that push the medium forward. Changing established characters is just lazy and uninspired.
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[QUOTE=Celgress;4130037]STEEL would be an awesome character to bring to the big screen. :cool: I hope someday soon he gets his chance to star in a movie.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Timothy Hunter;4130920]No, it would be wierd. If you want more ethnic minority based representation in the Superman franchise, have Steel or Natasha Irons show up more as supporting characters.[/QUOTE]
The Steel movie bombed horribly at the box office. It had the lowest box-office ever of a superhero movie based on an actual comic book character. No a lot of that had to do with it having a bad story and
Shaq's lack of acting skills. But I don't think anyone is eager to do a Steel remake when there are so many other characters out there that have more potential, including a black Superman.
[QUOTE=Jon Clark;4130140]My question is if a Superman of color is just a question of melanin or does it need to be more.
Assume they are going to do a scene for scene remake of the 1978 film or [B]Man of Steel[/B] being released today except with key roles going to minority actors. Would having a Superman whose story and dialogue worked for Chris Reeve or Henry Cavill work or do we have to play up cultural differences appropriate to the actor in the role? Does a Superman who looks African-American have to be any more involved in racial issues than usual? Does a Hispanic Superman (raised in Kansas) have to necessarily have to have strong ties to a Latino heritage (more than say an Italian or Irish one would be connected to those cultures)?[/QUOTE]
I think a better way to go would be to move the Kents out of Kansas into a state with a large black population who live in rural areas such as Alabama or Mississippi. Or in the case of a Hispanic Clark, somewhere like Texas,
New Mexico or a rural part of California such as the central valley. If they want to keep with the theme of an alien hidden in plain sight like they did with a white Clark in Kansas. I think having a Superman dealing with racial
issues opens up a mine field in today's divided society. People already object to a POC Superman without rubbing their faces in it that he is the Black or Hispanic hero that is going to save the world from bigots.
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[QUOTE=Joker Venom;4131639]Only if it's a different character, like if they wanted to go with Val-Zod, or Calvin Ellis. That's its own thing, and I think it might be fun to see.
But if they just went with change for change's sake, and changed Clark Kent/Kal-El? No way! There's no reason to do that, and I've always been opposed to that. Create NEW characters that push the medium forward. Changing established characters is just lazy and uninspired.[/QUOTE]
Isn't just doing the same thing over and over with Superman also lazy and uninspired? What is so creatively ambitious or original about yet another white Superman? Not saying I am an advocate of changing Superman's race.
Just that there is nothing special or unique about a white Superman. Where a black Superman would force some originality about his origins and black man having powers in a white society. More work would be required to
pull that off than with maintaining the status quo.
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We've already had Dean Cain play Superman for Four seasons on TV, if anyone minded him playing Clark it wasn't for him being 1/4 Japanese. Granted the other 3/4 is pretty White, but he most definitely falls into the POC umbrella.
Superman being caucasian isn't integral to the character. He was a baby from space found by Two kind farmers who raised him well. You change that too much, and you stop having Superman. But he (as well as the Kents) could be played by anyone without changing that formula.
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[QUOTE=Osiris-Rex;4131751]I think a better way to go would be to move the Kents out of Kansas into a state with a large black population who live in rural areas such as Alabama or Mississippi. Or in the case of a Hispanic Clark, somewhere like Texas,
New Mexico or a rural part of California such as the central valley. If they want to keep with the theme of an alien hidden in plain sight like they did with a white Clark in Kansas. I think having a Superman dealing with racial
issues opens up a mine field in today's divided society. People already object to a POC Superman without rubbing their faces in it that he is the Black or Hispanic hero that is going to save the world from bigots.[/QUOTE]
I'm a white middle aged guy, so I was trying to raise the issue without falling back on broad stereotypes since most of my ideas about other cultures come from TV and movies. But to put it more clearly I was trying to raise the idea of say a Black Superman being "not Black enough" if he is given his historic trappings. Is a mild-mannered Clark and a Superman who is more focused on protecting the majority than fighting for equality acceptable for audiences regardless of race or will making him a minority mean that people expect a Kal-El who is more confrontational in making his mark.
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[QUOTE=Osiris-Rex;4131770]Isn't just doing the same thing over and over with Superman also lazy and uninspired? What is so creatively ambitious or original about yet another white Superman? Not saying I am an advocate of changing Superman's race.
Just that there is nothing special or unique about a white Superman. Where a black Superman would force some originality about his origins and black man having powers in a white society. More work would be required to
pull that off than with maintaining the status quo.[/QUOTE]
To me it comes down to what you want from Superman. Do you want to see a familiar character but with new situations (new villains, new crimes to fight) or a different Superman with just a few similarities taking a new approach to familiar challenges?
Look at James Bond. Whether it is Sean Connery, Daniel Craig, or Idris Elba the character is a well trained British operative who uses charm, gadgetry, and sex appeal to defeat enemies of his country. Could you get more originality by making James more like maxwll Smart or a brutal guy who uses force over charm and is almost asexual? Sure, but it wouldn't be who most people think of when picturing Bond. Might be great grounds for a different character though.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;4129035]Have it be General Sam Lane and Metallo vs. Steel and Superman and I’d be down. Keep it so that Irons helped design the Metallo suit but has a crisis of conscience and aids Supes in stopping Lane and Corbyn.[/QUOTE]
Heh, bring in Shaq as a cameo and I might want to see it depending on who plays Steel.
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Characters like Barry Allen, Wally West, Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, Adam Strange, Hal Jordan, they all use to be criticized for being cookie cutter and anonymous. They were just mannequins with god like powers. That very anonymous nature to the characters makes each and everyone susceptible to a complete change of race and ethnicity. If the universe were suddenly knocked out of whack by the Spectre and our new reality featured a Peter Parker that was always Asian, I wouldn't be able to tell.
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I was thinking on second thought, there is something inherently "Black" about the Black Panther and there is something definitively cultural about Miles Morales. Does that exist for Superman? Is there something that is essential about being white? Could a brown/black/asian child have landed from Krypton named Kal-El?
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I would be open to it. I think it would work. Heck, it already worked in Dean Cain's case (though granted, he's mostly white and looks pretty white). But I agree that there is a risk of doing it just because it's what's "popular" nowadays and to get "brownie points", which I would be against.
For me, the point of doing it would just be because it's not essential not to do it, if that makes sense. Superman is a character with a lot of flexibility in so many things (personality, mythos, how powerful he is, etc.), so it could be argued that it's not really essential for him to be the race he's been portrayed as in the past. Now, it's true that, while Superman has had many interpretations over the years, his [I]look[/I] has usually stayed pretty consistent more often than not. But I guess for me personally, skin color and race in general is not the most important part of that look. He could still look like Superman to me as long as you essentially kept everything the same other than race. I mean, that may be kind of hard to imagine - obviously race affects multiple parts of one's appearance (skin, hair, facial structure) - but I mean, within reason, keep his look pretty consistent to what it was before other than the race change. His face can still have a Superman-ish quality even if he's not white, for example. It might not be exactly the same, but it can capture a similar aesthetic. Ditto for his hair and everything else. And most importantly, keep his costume and musculature the same and he's already a good percentage of the way there.
The thing that would potentially make me a little uncomfortable is the fact that technically, Superman isn't a part of any human race. As he is now, he's white, but he's not actually a member of the same race as white humans, since he's not even the same species. And that would be equally true if he was a member of any other race. And personally, that would feel a little weird and possibly uncomfortable to me, especially if they tried to make his new race a big part of the story. This may just be a hang-up I have that very few other people do, and I'm sure I could get over it, but it's still something that lingers in my mind as a potential issue.
Also, for me personally, if Superman is not white, I would like Martha and Jonathan Kent to be whatever race he is. Yeah, obviously he's adopted so it doesn't have to be that way, but it would feel better to me for multiple reasons. Superman is already technically not a member of whatever human race he appears to be, so you don't need to add on to that him not having a "typical" experience of a member of that race by being raised by whites. Note that I am NOT trying to invalidate the racial identity of any non-white person raised by whites - I'm just saying that, in Superman's case, if you're really going to pursue the idea of making him representative of a certain race, you may as well go all-out and give him the "typical" experience that a member of that race would have to more firmly tie him to that identity in people's minds. I mean, yeah, you could explore the experiences of a non-white raised by whites, there's obviously nothing wrong with that, but I think the issue of an alien being raised by humans is big enough as it is, so I wouldn't really want to add additional issues. You could even make an in-story explanation about Clark having an unconscious ability causing his appearance to conform to his surroundings, so that he changes to resemble the people he's raised by. I especially would like that since I don't really like the idea that Kryptonian races just happen to coincide with human races anyway.
In fact, adding onto that last point, while a version of Superman that is a member of a specific non-white race would be interesting to explore for maybe a movie or two, in general, I think the ideal for me would actually be a racially ambiguous but fairly white-looking Superman. He's not a member of any human race, so I think it would make sense if he didn't truly look like one, but at the same time still looks white enough to fit in with the majority white population (since "fitting in" is an important part of Superman to me). Basically think Dean Cain - because he's mixed race he doesn't necessarily resemble any one race strongly, but at the same time doesn't stand out strongly as being a member of a minority race because he's still mostly white and looks it.
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[QUOTE=Osiris-Rex;4131751]The Steel movie bombed horribly at the box office. It had the lowest box-office ever of a superhero movie based on an actual comic book character. No a lot of that had to do with it having a bad story and
Shaq's lack of acting skills. But I don't think anyone is eager to do a Steel remake when there are so many other characters out there that have more potential, including a black Superman.[/QUOTE]
Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man have all been in bad or underperforming movies (no financial bombs like Shaq's Steel, but it was a really bad movie with a character unknown to the GA) and yet each got a second chance. With Marvel's success utilizing their B-list heroes, never mind DC making bank off Aquaman who many in the non-fan community thought of as a joke, there is no reason why 20 years later they can't make a Steel movie, do it right this time, and have it do good in theaters.
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Here is an interesting Youtube video about this very subject by a POC comic reviewer I enjoy listening to greatly -
[video=youtube;Pupu1DUF4xU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pupu1DUF4xU[/video]
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I don't even like when they change a characters hair color for no reason. You want to make a Superman movie? Get a guy that looks like Superman.