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[QUOTE=Koriand'r;4628399]Who told you that Kanye and his KTT kids? There are all kinds of black superheroes and not all African-American readers are as quick to run from reality and their culture as these "black people you've personally talked to".[/QUOTE]
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Oh my goodness. See, this is a huge problem here. This promotes an idea that if you're black, you must LOVE something. You must love slave movies, gang movies, rap, black power superheroes, and so on and so on. If you don't, you're denying your culture. Sometimes it sounds like some people actually want to keep and contain black people inside a "black box" on purpose, for...reasons.
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[QUOTE=Vampire Savior;4628447]-____________________-
Oh my goodness. See, this is a huge problem here. This promotes an idea that if you're black, you must LOVE something. You must love slave movies, gang movies, rap, black power superheroes, and so on and so on. If you don't, you're denying your culture. Sometimes it sounds like some people actually want to keep and contain black people inside a "black box" on purpose, for...reasons.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely not, I'm just saying that there are two sides to every story and yours lacks historical context.
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[QUOTE=Koriand'r;4628463]Absolutely not,[U] I'm just saying that there are two sides to every story and yours lacks melanin.[/U][/QUOTE]
oof, I'm not gonna say whether that was warranted or not but Imma keep it a bean...that's bar! I'm using that :p sheesh
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I feel like when real life African-Americans aren't murdered by police in their own homes while eating ice cream or playing video games then we can have more of your frivolously happy and safe African-American heroes that run from reality and fight dinosaurs and mad scientists.
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[QUOTE=Koriand'r;4628469]I feel like when real life African-Americans aren't murdered by police in their own homes while eating ice cream or playing video games then we can have more of your frivolously happy and safe African-American heroes that run from reality and fight dinosaurs and mad scientists.[/QUOTE]
my question is what's stopping him from doing both? why can't Black Lightning bust up the unreported disappearances of black women or fight corporations that make communities of color damn-near unlivable (a la Flint) and fight mad scientists riding dinosaurs? I can't 100% say why not but I can tell you what's [b]not[/b] the reason; him having black in his name....
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[QUOTE=Koriand'r;4628469]I feel like when real life African-Americans aren't murdered by police in their own homes while eating ice cream or playing video games then we can have more of your frivolously happy and safe African-American heroes that run from reality and fight dinosaurs and mad scientists.[/QUOTE]
Okay...well...I'm happy you got your view out there so I know exactly what it is I've been dealing with when discussing with you.
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[QUOTE=Vampire Savior;4628474]Okay...well...I'm happy you got your view out there so I know exactly what it is I've been dealing with when discussing with you.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, I feel a sense of social responsibility because as much as I'd like it to be the case, life isn't filled with rivers of gold, universal justice and unicorns.
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Good luck creating an IP with international appeal that's stuck on after school specials.
More interested in escapism in comics since I can get reality done better from the news. Kinda unfair that Superman and Batman stories aren't centered on white privilege, but you just want to see Blacks trapped in one worldview.
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[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;4628487]Good luck creating an IP with international appeal that's stuck on after school specials.
More interested in escapism in comics since I can get reality done better from the news. Kinda unfair that Superman and Batman stories aren't centered on white privilege, but you just want to see Blacks trapped in one worldview.[/QUOTE]
I never said that, I said I didn't have a problem with them having the word black in their names and the reasons why.
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[QUOTE=Koriand'r;4628486]I'm sorry, I feel a sense of social responsibility because as much as I'd like it to be the case, life isn't filled with rivers of gold, universal justice and unicorns.[/QUOTE]
So should that apply to Jaime Reyes with Hispanic issues? Aqualad with LGBTQ issues?
Why should blacks be restricted to certain stories? That will cherry pick? Because we won't see that story of Duke opening a can on Pookie & Ray Ray who shoot kids in the face over rap lyrics or shoes?
Those stories will not be done the WAY you want them. Not at DC or Marvel. See Black Lightning volume 2. It painted all of Black Lighting's kids are poor kids that had to be thugs. Written by DC's TOP TALENT.
Another example-Waid's Archie 1941. Chuck Clayton was nothing more than a prop for racism scenes.
Eventually you make it harder to sell Duke Thomas is every story with him in ANY book is a racism or ABC special story.
Milestone did not do this. THere is a reason folks remember Static. We saw 2 racism stories out of 53 comics & 4 years of a cartoon show.
You have to balance it.
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I might be in the minority (no pun intended) on this, but I feel as though Naomi McDuffie is too new of a character to be in this poll/discussion. Plus I feel as of right now, she is too connected to Superman to stand on her own as a character (much the same way RiRi Williams is too connected to Iron Man to stand on her own as a character).
I honestly feel like Naomi is a Superman character.
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;4628510]So should that apply to Jaime Reyes with Hispanic issues? Aqualad with LGBTQ issues?
Why should blacks be restricted to certain stories? That will cherry pick? Because we won't see that story of Duke opening a can on Pookie & Ray Ray who shoot kids in the face over rap lyrics or shoes?
Those stories will not be done the WAY you want them. Not at DC or Marvel. See Black Lightning volume 2. It painted all of Black Lighting's kids are poor kids that had to be thugs. Written by DC's TOP TALENT.
Another example-Waid's Archie 1941. Chuck Clayton was nothing more than a prop for racism scenes.
Eventually you make it harder to sell Duke Thomas is every story with him in ANY book is a racism or ABC special story.
Milestone did not do this. THere is a reason folks remember Static. We saw 2 racism stories out of 53 comics & 4 years of a cartoon show.
You have to balance it.[/QUOTE]
I said nothing about restrictions either, or making every issue a lesson. For people so concerned about pigeonholing you're not at all practicing what you preach. You just make assumptions and jump to conclusions. What any writer worth his salt has to do is address any character's differences and flesh them out so they feel like a whole person and not a construct. That's true of Superman and Black Lightning.
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I feel Vixen has the potential for franchise status. And I feel franchise status is more important then trinity status. Harleyquin doesn’t have trinity status, but she seems to be doing jut fine.
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Realistically, if we're talking about a character who can carry his own franchise, I'm going to have to say Black Lightning. He's one of the few characters in the poll whose mythology is entirely and completely [B]his own[/B]. He doesn't share the spotlight with another character, just like how the Trinity don't in their respective corners of the DCU. In other words, Jefferson isn't what one would call an extension of [B]anyone else's[/B] legacy. He's the progenitor of his own.
DC could certainly promote John Stewart and Jackson Hyde and it would actually be good for them to do so, but at the end of the day, they're always going to be extensions of a larger legacy that didn't start with them. Likewise...
[QUOTE=jetengine;4625759]Cyborg realistically. It just needs management to give a ****[/QUOTE]
...whether we want to admit it or not, Cyborg is and always will be a Titan at heart. His origin and his mythology are tied up with that team and those characters. And there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't stop him from being a popular, classic, and highly regarded character. Just look at Storm, Cyclops, Jean Grey, or even Wolverine. However, he can't really be his [B]own[/B] franchise.
Black Lightning, on the other hand, is not only capable of spawning his [B]own[/B] legacy, but already has. He already has two legacy characters in the form of his daughters, which is why its not wise for DC to try and get rid of them. Also, they could even position Virgil as his protege.
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;4628510]So should that apply to Jaime Reyes with Hispanic issues? Aqualad with LGBTQ issues?
Why should blacks be restricted to certain stories? That will cherry pick? Because we won't see that story of Duke opening a can on Pookie & Ray Ray who shoot kids in the face over rap lyrics or shoes?
Those stories will not be done the WAY you want them. Not at DC or Marvel. See Black Lightning volume 2. It painted all of Black Lighting's kids are poor kids that had to be thugs. Written by DC's TOP TALENT.
Another example-Waid's Archie 1941. Chuck Clayton was nothing more than a prop for racism scenes.
Eventually you make it harder to sell Duke Thomas is every story with him in ANY book is a racism or ABC special story.
Milestone did not do this. THere is a reason folks remember Static. We saw 2 racism stories out of 53 comics & 4 years of a cartoon show.
You have to balance it.[/QUOTE]
but you do see how that's a leap from where we started tho, right? Yes Aqualad should tell LGBT stories and Jaime should tell Hispanic stories, no is asking that they or anyone else be restricted to oppression tales. Static was never forbidden from expressing his blackness, it informed his superheroics, and Milestone NEVER strayed away from allowing their characters to be who they are and say who they are; ever. Static wasn't a superhero who happened to be black, neither was Icon (who's origin literally starts with slavery) or Hardware (who's costumed included making himself MORE BLACK), they were black and they were superheroes and neither superseded the other. Because he proudly proclaims he's black he can only tell one kind of story? says who? I reject that premise because BLACK PANTHER exists. Black Panther made billions last year and became the biggest solo superhero movie of all time and the biggest predominately black-led, black written, and black directed film of all time. Black Panther has been telling all kinds of stories, has been used in all kinds of stories and events, and has played major roles front and center in all kinds of stories over at Marvel, and I know you have the numbers on his trades compared to any black character over at DC. There is nothing stopping Black Lightning or Duke or any black character from telling stories about race [U]and[/U] a myriad of other stories besides editorial and the writers themselves. if these stories aren't good it's not these characters fault or their names, it's the fault of the creators telling shitty stories and both DC and Marvel need to get editors and writers who know what they are talking about if and when that's the case. And sure you can say "oh well Black Panther's name is based off an animal", but it's not a coincidence that the black guy has black in his name, he's another example of a character where acknowledging and/or affirming their blackness isn't taboo. Representation means nothing if they are not allowed to express who they are, that's the path to the sanitization and the tokenism. I'm not looking for representation by happenstance because it's often mediocre and easily replaceable with a cookie-cutter white character, and at worst, that's how you get the superhero equivalent of Crash; and you never go full Crash. I'm not saying this directly to [b]YOU[/b] specifically, at this point i'm just arguing the point, [i digress] but Black Lightning having black in his name is not some regressive sin that will unravel the social discourse regarding race in comics and set black fandom back decades, and even if I concede that it were a problem, it would be intellectually dishonest to pretend that it is the most pressing issue regarding race in comics or the reason he's been held back from upper echelon status.
