Yah, pretty sure he managed to dig a deeper hole for himself and at the same time proved the allegations are true. Oops.
[QUOTE=CellarDweller;5899724]“English is not her first language”
[img]https://media0.giphy.com/media/1AIeYgwnqeBUxh6juu/giphy.gif[/img]
How insulting and rude, putting the blame on her for 'not understanding'. He needs to just disappear.[/QUOTE]
Lol, perfect.
[QUOTE=AnakinFlair;5901082]I'd throw Captain America: The First Avenger in there as well. While it has been overshadowed by Winter Soldier and Civil War, it was still a solid, GOOD movie. But not a lot of people like Thor or IM2, and I think that everyone tends to forget about The Incredible Hulk.[/QUOTE]
In fact, I would go further and say it's one of the best origin movies ever done. Captain America, not the Hulk. The 1977 made for television origin of the Hulk was much better and the IH movie just rehashed it while throwing in a super fight.
[QUOTE=Scott Taylor;5901091]Yah, pretty sure he managed to dig a deeper hole for himself and at the same time proved the allegations are true. Oops.
Lol, perfect.[/QUOTE]
Yes, let's see. Whedon implies that Gadot does not speak English very well and did not understand what he said.
He says Fisher is not a good actor.
He implies he just had to have sex with "Buffy" actresses while he was married because he would regret it if he did not have sex with them. I just had to do it. They're hot. Hmm, he didn't seem to think cheating on his wife would lead to regrets. Strange he didn't think about that.
Yeah, he should have just stayed silent or just apologized and stopped instead of trying to justify it.
[QUOTE=chicago_bastard;5900529]I wasn't talking about abusive behaviour, I was talking about the ridiculousness of someone like Fisher trying to educate Whedon on how to direct a comic book movie. Even if Whedon had only one good project to show for that would still be one more credential than Fisher had.[/QUOTE]
Ben Affleck literally directed an Oscar-winning movie and he was reportedly so disgusted by his experience with Whedon that he quit Batman.
[QUOTE=Mark Trail;5901127]Ben Affleck literally directed an Oscar-winning movie and he was reportedly so disgusted by his experience with Whedon that he quit Batman.[/QUOTE]
Don't know what that has to do with Fisher trying to tell Whedon how he should do his job.
Charisma Carpenter
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJaWL9vVIAISHek.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Alan2099;5900372]I just find it weird that how much of this narrative revolves around Fisher, who's complaints basically seem to boil down to "my boss was mean and didn't do everything I wanted him too," with a dash of "I'm black. A white person telling me what to do is racist."
I'm not going to say Joss isn't a jerk, but honestly I really can't judge him too much for not being on his best behavior for being brought into a project that's pretty much the opposite of how he does things, given very little time, money, and support, and trying to make something decent out of it while the studio breathes down his neck.
You want to judge hm for sleeping around, sure, go right ahead. That's rather scuzzy behavior.[/QUOTE]
The moves against Fisher probably had nothing to do with race. It's more that he was an unknown actor playing the most obscure member of the league. If he's assertive, it'll piss off anyone else working there. From Fisher's perspective, he was more familiar with Snyder's way of doing things which allowed for input from actors, so the shift to a different style is jarring. That's where different understandings come in.
The idea that Whedon should just ignore his contributions is unhealthy. Whedon came onto a movie in the middle of production while everyone else had been on for a while. As a person who had been in the industry longer, it was his responsibility to recognize how others may have some blind spots or expectations.
Whedon's attitude could've been justified if the work was bad. But it wasn't. The Snyder cut has a 71% rotten tomatoes rating and 8.1 IMDB score. Whedon made the cardinal sin in the arts of being on the wrong side of history, and being obnoxious about it. That's how you become the bad guy in other peoples' memoirs.
[QUOTE=Alan2099;5900857]I think Man of Steel set the pace wrong.
We needed a movie to establish Superman and have him fight badguy and win BEFORE we brought back people from Krypton and had him forced to kill somebody.
Then you do Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, THEN Batman vs Superman.
Now once you've establish everyone else, you can take some time and give Cyborg room to breathe.[/QUOTE]
Now, that I can agree with. Really, his first villain should have been Lex. A human villain, and a 'mind over muscle' scenario.
[QUOTE=Thezmage;5901088]I may be bringing my own feelings a bit too far into this, but I personally do not feel like CA:TFA truly succeeds as a movie due to the overusage of montages breaking up the narrative[/QUOTE]
I don't recall that many montages. The only one I do remember is Cap and the Howling Commandos taking down Hydra, and Red Skull being increasingly angry about it. I don't count the training at Camp Leigh as a montage. But to each their own.
[QUOTE=Mister Mets;5901420]
Whedon's attitude could've been justified if the work was bad. But it wasn't. The Snyder cut has a 71% rotten tomatoes rating and 8.1 IMDB score. Whedon made the cardinal sin in the arts of being on the wrong side of history, and being obnoxious about it. That's how you become the bad guy in other peoples' memoirs.[/QUOTE]
Nah it pretty much was. The Top Critics score on RT is at 52%. Metacritic where only critics from respected media outlets are considered has it at 54/100. These two metrics give a better impression of how actual film critics rate a movie than the general RT rating that is inflated by YouTubers and "critics" from fansites.
So both JL versions are bad with Snyder's version being a bit less bad.
[QUOTE=Mark Trail;5901127]Ben Affleck literally directed an Oscar-winning movie and he was reportedly so disgusted by his experience with Whedon that he quit Batman.[/QUOTE]
I think the issue here is the SOURCE.
If it's Affleck offering me advice or not liking what I am doing-I am WAYYYYYYYYYY more prone to listen to an Oscar winner. He made movies folks loved and some won awards.
Fisher-who has no resume outside of theater and Broadway-is NOT going to tell me ANYTHING. Not when my resume has Buffy on it that bomb as a movie but became a hit show, had a spinoff and tons of comics as does Firefly.
The fact WB thought so LOW of Cyborg that a no-name gets to play him versus others like even Khary Payton. Says how low on the pole Cyborg was. Maybe a bigger name would have gotten Cyborg's stuff kept in the film.
Everyone else had skins on the wall. Even Moama who I remember from Baywatch more than Stargate. I think I would have kept my mouth SHUT. Maybe if he did-all the praise from the Snyder Cut might have opened some more doors.
Instead he went after a guy that wasn't working at WB more than he did Wheldon with no proof.
Wheldon will find work even if it's under a different name.
[QUOTE=Mark Trail;5901127]Ben Affleck literally directed an Oscar-winning movie and he was reportedly so disgusted by his experience with Whedon that he quit Batman.[/QUOTE]
He was disgusted with his experience during Justice League. That's more than just Whedon.
[QUOTE=AnakinFlair;5901438]Now, that I can agree with. Really, his first villain should have been Lex. A human villain, and a 'mind over muscle' scenario.
I don't recall that many montages. The only one I do remember is Cap and the Howling Commandos taking down Hydra, and Red Skull being increasingly angry about it. I don't count the training at Camp Leigh as a montage. But to each their own.[/QUOTE]
Him doing USO shows as well. They were jarring and not really in service of the narrative
[QUOTE=Thezmage;5901472]Him doing USO shows as well. They were jarring and not really in service of the narrative[/QUOTE]
Oh come on, you can't cut the scenes where he's in the actual comic accurate outfit and punching "Hitler".
The USO scenes were part of the narrative, it showed how they were using him and keeping him from the fighting. They were fun too.
The whole character arc was few believed in him and he had to prove himself, before and after the serum.
The fighting Howlers was one of the better action montages I have seen in years.
[QUOTE=chicago_bastard;5901440]Nah it pretty much was. The Top Critics score on RT is at 52%. Metacritic where only critics from respected media outlets are considered has it at 54/100. These two metrics give a better impression of how actual film critics rate a movie than the general RT rating that is inflated by YouTubers and "critics" from fansites.
So both JL versions are bad with Snyder's version being a bit less bad.[/QUOTE]
Yes but most critics also do acknowledge that Fisher was one of the key positives of the Snyder cut, so Joss' excuses don't really cut the mustard.