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[QUOTE=Thinker4730;381592]Peter's mind survived via being cloned.
I don't know about you, but Peter's original mind can't be in two bodies at the same time. Peter's original mind died in Doc Ock's body it happened as clear as day in issue #700 after he uploaded his memories into his body. Those memories became Ghost Peter which is Peter's original mind cloned.
I don't understand why people refuse to see the facts of that.
Also...I know the technology doesn't exist in the real world, but that still doesn't change the fact that Peter's mind has been cloned and that's how it survived.
People made a huge big deal when Peter was replaced by a clone in the Clone Saga, but they don't want to accept that the same thing has been repeated again with Peter's mind being cloned in Superior Spider-Man.[/QUOTE]
A notion isn't 'common sense'. just because you declare it to be so. Moreover, declaring yourself to be right and that other people are simply 'refusing' to see the facts should be causing you to stop and question whether or not you are actually, in fact, right.
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[QUOTE=Thinker4730;379585]Look...I'm sorry if I'm upsetting you, but I don't deny the facts for anyone, and going by the facts laid out in the story I have to use my common sense and state the fact that the real Peter Parker is still dead and has not returned and we have a cloned mind of Peter in his original body now. [/QUOTE]
I’m getting upset because you are just telling everyone that they have to accept that it’s a cloned mind when I’m saying we don’t because a lot of fans don’t care wither it’s a cloned mind or the original some just wanted Ock gone and so he is. When I state this you tell me I’m not a ‘true fan’
It’s like having to understand the reasons why a musician choose to record a certain song instead of choosing to just listen or watch a film and think of everything that is wrong instead of enjoy what you like.
[QUOTE=Thinker4730;379585]If I denied the facts to please you or others I'd have to call myself an idiot...I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that. [/QUOTE]
I’m not asking you to deny facts if they are indeed facts I told you I wasn’t going to overanalyze because of my blood pressure that hasn’t changed in the past 24 hours and it won’t change in the next.
[QUOTE=Thinker4730;379585]Denying the fact that Superior Spider-Man existed doesn't erase Superior Spider-Man from existence. I didn't want OMD to exist, but it did and I'm still suffering the effects of it to this very day because I can't deny it happened even if I tried. The same should go for you in regards to Peter being still dead as a result of Superior Spider-Man. [/QUOTE]
Don’t understand your reasons for saying this, you’re right it doesn’t erase it but I never said that I was denying it existed what I am saying is that I didn’t [B]WANT[/B] it to happen but it did I will stay with it because I know it ends and I will be able to read my spidey again.
[QUOTE=Thinker4730;379585]The real Peter Parker hasn't returned as a result of Superior Spider-Man...accept it...just like I have to accept that Peter and Mary Jane are no longer married as a result of OMD. [/QUOTE]
I’ll give you a bit of advice don’t tell me what to believe or accept because I won’t, as a matter of fact it make me fight harder and this is a losing contest to start off with.
[QUOTE=Thinker4730;379585]You can't deny something happened simply because you didn't want it to exist in the first place. Accept that Peter Parker is still dead as a result of Superior Spider-Man and you will finally understand how those of us who are fans of the marriage feel since we can't have the pleasure of denying that OMD happened simply because we didn't want it to happen in the first place. [/QUOTE]
You would have a point if I said I was going to deny it happened since I haven’t [B]cosmic fail[/B]
[QUOTE=Thinker4730;379585] [b]THE REAL PETER PARKER IS STILL DEAD. A CLONED MIND OF PETER PARKER NOW EXISTS IN HIS ORIGINAL BODY...ACCEPT IT. IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN THOSE OF US WHO WERE FANS OF THE MARRIAGE HAVING TO ACCEPT OMD.[/B] [/QUOTE]
Seriously with the shouting could you stop I’ll let this slide because a) you haven’t got my advice yet and b) this is acutally kinda off topic.
[QUOTE=Thinker4730;379585] For those of us who are fans of the marriage it feels like the real Peter Parker died during OMD. If some of us are still around despite that fact I think you should be able to handle the fact that the real Peter Parker is still dead as a result of Superior Spider-Man.[/QUOTE]
Could you make up your mind please I’m seriously losing it, did he die during OMD or #700 you can’t argue your point without knowing it NEXT.
[QUOTE=stingnewell;379733]So its settled true Spider-fans never cared for Superior and Superior never cared for the original and will go back to dissing the original and praise the inferior one. Good they have no place here [B]my advice for books to for if you have no interest in Spider-man go read Batman or Punisher and don't bother coming back.[/B][/QUOTE]
Bold Part Sounds like good advice to me. I’m not even going to touch the other parts nope not going near them with a ten foot barge pole.
[QUOTE=Tendrin;381760]A notion isn't 'common sense'. just because you declare it to be so. Moreover, declaring yourself to be right and that other people are simply 'refusing' to see the facts should be causing you to stop and question whether or not you are actually, in fact, right.[/QUOTE]
He has everything up to Superior right though, but can someone tell me if Peter remembers dying in Ocks body cause if he did then Pete is back because he finished the transfer and then did his last speech cause you can’t transfer after you died unless there’s some explanation for it.
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[QUOTE=Thinker4730;381592]Peter's mind survived via being cloned.
I don't know about you, but Peter's original mind can't be in two bodies at the same time. Peter's original mind died in Doc Ock's body it happened as clear as day in issue #700 after he uploaded his memories into his body. Those memories became Ghost Peter which is Peter's original mind cloned.
I don't understand why people refuse to see the facts of that.
Also...I know the technology doesn't exist in the real world, but that still doesn't change the fact that Peter's mind has been cloned and that's how it survived.
People made a huge big deal when Peter was replaced by a clone in the Clone Saga, but they don't want to accept that the same thing has been repeated again with Peter's mind being cloned in Superior Spider-Man.[/QUOTE]
Accept the "facts" of mind swapping? If Peter's mind was cloned, why would the cloned mind be in his own brain? Wouldn't it make more sense to treat his memories as, well, memory on a computer. When you transfer data from one hard drive to another, it doesn't erase the data from the first hard drive, it copies it and puts the copy on the new one. A "ghost" of the original data remains on the first hard drive and it gets overwritten with new data as it's added. Of course, there is the old sci-fi trope that the human brain has limitless data reserves, so you could then extrapolate that Peter's memories never got overwritten by Ocks, just got like, partitioned or something while Ock was in the drivers seat.
At the end of the day though, there are no facts about mind-swapping. Whatever the writer says happened is what happened.
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[QUOTE=Coal Tiger;381880] Whatever the writer says happened is what happened.[/QUOTE]
The single most important sentence.
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[QUOTE=Tendrin;381926]The single most important sentence.[/QUOTE]
The entire debate destroyed with eight simple words.
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[QUOTE=VolcanikTiger86;381930]The entire debate destroyed with eight simple words.[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;W8qcccZy03s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8qcccZy03s[/video]
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[QUOTE=Thinker4730;381592]Peter's mind survived via being cloned.
I don't know about you, but Peter's original mind can't be in two bodies at the same time. Peter's original mind died in Doc Ock's body it happened as clear as day in issue #700 after he uploaded his memories into his body. Those memories became Ghost Peter which is Peter's original mind cloned.
I don't understand why people refuse to see the facts of that.
Also...I know the technology doesn't exist in the real world, but that still doesn't change the fact that Peter's mind has been cloned and that's how it survived.
People made a huge big deal when Peter was replaced by a clone in the Clone Saga, but they don't want to accept that the same thing has been repeated again with Peter's mind being cloned in Superior Spider-Man.[/QUOTE]
Peter tried to swap minds again with Doc Ock.
It seemingly didn't work, and it seemed that Peter's mind died in Doc Ock's body.
But then it turns out that Peter's mind survived. My impression was that the failed mind swap created a sort of tether, so that when Ock's body died, Peter's mind went back into a corner in his body. Otherwise, Peter would have remarked on the weirdness of watching part of himself die in Doc Ock's body.
Slott does have future plans for Ock's body, which has disappeared. So it is possible that will touch on elements of the mindswap.
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[QUOTE=Mister Mets;382195]Slott does have future plans for Ock's body, which has disappeared.[/QUOTE]
And I, for one, cannot wait! :)
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[QUOTE=Tendrin;381760]A notion isn't 'common sense'. just because you declare it to be so. Moreover, declaring yourself to be right and that other people are simply 'refusing' to see the facts should be causing you to stop and question whether or not you are actually, in fact, right.[/QUOTE]
Prove to me that I'm incorrect about the facts and I will no longer declare myself to be right when it comes to my common sense conclusion.
Am I wrong about the facts that have been revealed in the story itself?
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[QUOTE=VolcanikTiger86;381930]The entire debate destroyed with eight simple words.[/QUOTE]
I wish. He's been told that this whole thread and he still thinks his interpretation beats the word of the writer and patronizes any who dare to think otherwise. Dude's literally used the same argument for everyone who's responded to him.
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[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;382770]I wish. He's been told that this whole thread and he still thinks his interpretation beats the word of the writer and patronizes any who dare to think otherwise. Dude's literally used the same argument for everyone who's responded to him.[/QUOTE]
The words of the writer are the facts that are revealed in the story itself...and it is by those facts that I've come to my common sense conclusion.
You all want to believe the lie that the true Peter Parker is still alive then go ahead, but I'm not going to accept the lie.
The real Peter Parker's mind died in Doc Ock's body and that means the one presently in Peter's body is a cloned mind of the original Peter Parker and that means the real Peter Parker is still dead.
You can't defeat the logic of that conclusion no matter how much you may want to deny it.
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[QUOTE=Thinker4730;382801]The words of the writer are the facts that are revealed in the story itself...and it is by those facts that I've come to my common sense conclusion.
You all want to believe the lie that the true Peter Parker is still alive then go ahead, but I'm not going to accept the lie.
The real Peter Parker's mind died in Doc Ock's body and that means the one presently in Peter's body is a cloned mind of the original Peter Parker and that means the real Peter Parker is still dead.
You can't defeat the logic of that conclusion no matter how much you may want to deny it.[/QUOTE]
If this is how you interpret the story, why do you think Dan Slott did it that way? Is he setting up something for a future story? Did he decide to quietly kill off one of the most famous characters in comics? Or did he not realize what he was doing?
Note: I buy the explanation that Ghost Peter was the real Peter. I'm curious as to what you think.
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Good Question
This is an interesting question. Perhaps, the current Peter Parker is a neuronal and synaptic backup copy of the original. The original Peter Parker is lounging in the after life with Gwen and Silver Sable. So, if this is true the question becomes, does the current Peter Parker have a soul? Reality...what a concept.:confused:
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[QUOTE=Vworp Vworp;374537]Yep. Until Marvel come up with way to physically alter every Spidey comic between ASM Annual #21 and ASM #545 in every house/basement/comicbook store bargain box/vault to reflect the change in the timeline, whilst [I]also[/I] changing all of our memories too (which I'm sure they do have people working on:p), then we're all aware that Peter is still living in Biff Tannen's Pleasure Paradise.[/QUOTE]
All of my issues changed. Anything mentioning MJ or their marriage how has a "Redacted by JQ" instead and MJ's pics are all of Joe Q...
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My understanding of the whole Superior Spider-Man business is that the mind-swap didn't actually happen as first portrayed. The Peter who died in #700 was a copy of his mind implanted in Ock's head. Likewise, the Superior Spider-Man was the cloned mind of Doc Ock, layered over original Peter's brain. The "real" Doc Ock died in #700, though with his body missing I'm sure he will be resurrected, his personality restored from his physical brain (possibly with the copy of Peter ruling the head temporarily?). Peter never died, but only had his mind suppressed for 30-something issues.
Don't know if this is how it actually worked out at the end of Superior (I found the ending incomprehensible) but it makes sense for me.
I agree that OMD means we've been seeing an alternate-reality Spidey, but there's no way to fix that now, so best just try to forget.
I'm inclined to think that Spider-Verse is really softening us all up to accept alternate realities as just as valid as 616, with it all ending with a new (younger, obviously) version of Peter taking over as the "real" one.
