What Could/Should The OG New Teen Titans Be Doing Now?

I would like to see them treated the way they were before the New 52 apparently made them into "second stringers." Make them DC's X-Men again!

One of the things that I think Marvel did right with the X-Men that DC didn't do with the Titans, making the former more successful in the long run, was that they kept introducing new characters and new spinoff teams and new and intriguing villains. The Wolfman and Perez era introduced great characters, but after that run, DC sort of just neglected adding new aspects to the Titans franchise and kept running back to the "former sidekicks" aspect (with the NTT additions). And while those former sidekicks now no longer were beholden to their mentors, they didn't really expand the pool of characters the Titans engaged with. There are only three really memorable Titans villains, all of them Wolfman/Perez creations: Deathstroke, Trigon, and Brother Blood. The X-Men, on the other hand, have a whole murderer's row of memorable villains: Magneto, Apocolypse, Mr. Sinister, Onslaught, Lady Deathstrike, the Reavers, Master Mold, the Hellfire Club, the Phoenix, Mystique, etc.

The X-Men kept on encountering new enemies, enlisting new members, etc. The Titans sort of neglected that aspect post-Wolfman. There were a few new recruits and threats, but nothing that really stood out.

I don't think its too late for DC to do that with the Titans. I would imagine a new team coming together of Cyborg, Wally (the OG one), Kory, Gar and Raven...but then, add new members with unique powers. Create a brand new, unique villain for them to fight. Or create a New Mutants-esque team for the Titans, consisting of all new characters.

[QUOTE=Korath;3414064]Edit : concerning Starfire, I would like her to actually retain her New 52's past when it comes to being the commander of a Starship and all, and her sister actually being good, because it prevent her from being shelved on her planet. I would love it for her to be this outlier who can call upon a crew of crazy aliens to help in a pinch. Otherwise, I would probably have her graduate to the League. She has the powers, the skills and the heart to be a very solid addition to it, plus she would be another woman there and that's always a plus.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure the most recent issue of Teen Titans just reversed the New 52 origin and gave her her Pre-Flashpoint origin back. She mentions how she was captured and experimented on by the Psions, something I don't think was part of her New 52 origin. And, honestly, that's how I'd like to see it. Evil Komand'r is more interesting than good Komand'r.

I still stand by my statement that adults Titans is a broken concept. It just doesn't work. The Titans as a franchise works when it is about actual teens and younger heroes that are learning how to be heroes. Once you are an adult and have been a hero for years already you have outgrown this type of setting and book and need to move on. Forcing the adult Titans to keep doing the same things they did as kids leads to what we have now in the Titans book. A directionless mess that feels like a containment book because these characters have nowhere else to do.

Although forcing the adults Titans to play babysitter for the younger generation doesn't work either because it doesn't fix the core problems of the book. It doesn't give them any sort of own personal direction as heroes and passes the responsibility of watching over the younger generation from the JL characters who should be the ones overseeing the younger generation to a bunch of 20 somethings who need to form their own direction and path.

Now what path should they be on I don't really know. They are stuck behind the JL characters and now already have 2 generations of younger heroes behind them. So they are in a tough spot. Dick and Wally should probably be on the JL but I don't see DC putting them on it, especially Dick. So if they can't join the JL then I wouldn't mind them joining the JSA if/when that book eventually comes out. The JSA is a professional hero team that is filled with history and legacy and I think Dick and Wally would fit in. It would be nice to see Wally form a closer relationship with Jay Garrick and Dick with maybe a Ted Grant. I don't care about Dick leading some team and just want him to be part of a hero team that has an actual purpose and is constructed to be a professional team.

[QUOTE=Denirac;3414085]He is Batman.... He was literally called the 'Batman of Bludhaven' in Seeley's Dr Hurt arc[/QUOTE]

No, he needs to have the mantle of Batman. Cowl and all.

[QUOTE=BatmanJones;3414874]Whoa. Are you Dan Didio? He's the only other person I've ever heard say it was a good idea to kill Dick Grayson.

People talk about Superman as the heart of the DCU and Martian Manhunter to have been the heart of the JL(A).

But to me Dick Grayson has always been the heart of the DCU. Killing him off would be about the only thing that could make me stop reading DC comic books.[/QUOTE]

When did I say they should kill off Dick Grayson? Go back and read my post again friend.

[QUOTE=the illustrious mr. kenway;3414559]With BB i wanted him to go from Follower to Leader with his own team. Ideally I want him to be in his late 20s/early 30s and reforming the Doom Patrol.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the same thing. Gar started off in that book, one of the freaks among the freaks and all that. Then he moved to the Titans, and became a semi-famous actor.

I'd like to see him go back to the Doom Patrol and try to help them get out of the self-destructive, self-loathing spiral they're usually in. Obviously, because its the Doom Patrol and that's their niche, he'd fail and barely make any real dent in their self-perception, but it'd be interesting to see him wrestle with Caulder over the direction of the team. It'd make Gar a lot more interesting and force him into...maybe not a leadership role, but give him some degree of (moral) authority.

I haven't gotten into the current Young Animal title (I'll get the trade eventually) but from what I know it seems like a solid place to put Gar where he can do some different stuff and get to grow as a character.

RE: The Titans in general.

I want all the NTT out of the team, honestly. The reunions never work. I realized that years ago, its embarrassing that DC hasn't figured it out yet.

It holds the characters back. It holds the franchise back. Let Dick and Wally and Roy and all the rest move on with their lives. Let a new generation take the name and find their own way. As it is, these adults still calling themselves Titans feels like the thirty year old guy who still goes to high school parties. Its just sad.

[QUOTE=Elmo;3415109]No, he needs to have the mantle of Batman. Cowl and all.[/QUOTE]

No. Grayson should never be like Batman, its one of the things I like about Young Justice's version of him. He never wanted and feared he would become the Batman

[QUOTE=Ascended;3415198]RE: The Titans in general.

I want all the NTT out of the team, honestly. The reunions never work. I realized that years ago, its embarrassing that DC hasn't figured it out yet.

It holds the characters back. It holds the franchise back. Let Dick and Wally and Roy and all the rest move on with their lives. Let a new generation take the name and find their own way. As it is, these adults still calling themselves Titans feels like the thirty year old guy who still goes to high school parties. Its just sad.[/QUOTE]

Calling themselves Titans isn't really a problem, because they dropped the "Teen" back in the 80s. The name belongs to them (Dick's generation and all associated characters). If we get rid of all of them and give it to a new generation...we might as well come up with a new team altogether. Titans is the story of THESE characters, for better or worse, and I don't think just dropping them from the brand is going to help it. Especially when Dick, Kory, Gar, Raven and Donna are all making it into the new show. Bringing in new sidekicks is going to keep reinforcing the idea that this is a team for young teenage heroes when the fact of the matter is the most popular stories were when they were becoming adults. One of them even got married to a bizarre author self-insert who was divorced and had a kid. The idea that the Titans is a team that a character needs to graduate from is a stigma attached to this thing that needs to be dealt with and discarded.

Some new characters, preferably ones who are in the same 20-something age range and not modeled after a more popular character in the JL, would be ideal, but they should be integrated with the characters who are already proven popular. Sort of like how Morrison's JLA kept the Big 7 but brought in lesser known characters to fill in the ranks or invented completely new ones like Zauriel and Aztek. But what purpose this team could have at this stage of their lives is the bigger conundrum. If it were an easy fix, I feel it would have happened already.

[QUOTE=Badou;3415094]I still stand by my statement that adults Titans is a broken concept. It just doesn't work. [B]The Titans as a franchise works when it is about actual teens and younger heroes that are learning how to be heroes. [/B]Once you are an adult and have been a hero for years already you have outgrown this type of setting and book and need to move on. Forcing the adult Titans to keep doing the same things they did as kids leads to what we have now in the Titans book. A directionless mess that feels like a containment book because these characters have nowhere else to do.[/QUOTE]

If anything, its DC's refusal to move past this that has held the Titans franchise back. I mean, people are forgetting that the most successful time in the Titans' history was when they had already moved past being sidekicks. The Titans were sidekicks back in the 1960s. By the NTT days, many of them were already adults and characters like Vic, Raven, Kory, and even Gar weren't sidekick-type characters in the first place. I mean, Donna got married and had a child as a Titan. Roy also had a kid as a Titan. I think we can safely say that many of these characters are past their adolescent stage.

Instead, let's actually let the Titans be adults. Let's introduce new teammates that aren't miniature copies of adult heroes in the DCU. I mean, Little Barda and Zachary Zatara? Come on...

Instead of the Titans just being littered with characters meant to be baby versions of Leaguers, create characters that are unique to the Titans. I mean, Mal Duncan, Bumblebee, Starfire, Vic, Raven, etc. all work because they are their own unique characters.

[QUOTE=Zeeguy91;3415315]If anything, its DC's refusal to move past this that has held the Titans franchise back. I mean, people are forgetting that the most successful time in the Titans' history was when they had already moved past being sidekicks. The Titans were sidekicks back in the 1960s. By the NTT days, many of them were already adults and characters like Vic, Raven, Kory, and even Gar weren't sidekick-type characters in the first place. I mean, Donna got married and had a child as a Titan. Roy also had a kid as a Titan. I think we can safely say that many of these characters are past their adolescent stage.

Instead, let's actually let the Titans be adults. Let's introduce new teammates that aren't miniature copies of adult heroes in the DCU. I mean, Little Barda and Zachary Zatara? Come on...

Instead of the Titans just being littered with characters meant to be baby versions of Leaguers, create characters that are unique to the Titans. I mean, Mal Duncan, Bumblebee, Starfire, Vic, Raven, etc. all work because they are their own unique characters.[/QUOTE]

They tried that as the NTT characters got older but were still doing the same things and it didn't work. It stagnated and eventually fell apart. The concept works best when it is the actual younger generation of characters learning to be heroes and working together. It isn't about being sidekicks but about the younger generation. Once they become adults they don't really have any direction or mission statement which is the core problem. They are adults doing the same thing they did as teens.

They were still young during the NTT days, and it is also important to remember that back then they didn't have these other generations of heroes behind them. So even if they were older teens or college age at that time they were still the youngest heroes, but that isn't the case anymore. It hasn't been the case for a long time. They are adults and there are 2 younger generations of heroes behind them now. You have Tim's generation and Damian's generation and that is who the franchise should focus on while Dick's generation should move on already. I mean it is pathetic that you have characters like Raven, Starfire and Beast Boy that have been stuck on the same Titans team through 3 generations of characters.

What people seem to not get about the Titans is they are a team because they are friends. It is not about working their way into the Justice League or training the younger kids it is about friends working together. That is the central core of what the Titans are. This is a book that needs to play up the soap opera elements of them being young adults and friends. Less big fights and more smaller stories and character building is what the Titans need. That and Starfire should be in the Titans.

I just don't see why everyone thinks every heroes goal is to be in the Justice League. Why would they even want to be in the League when all they would always be in the shadows of their mentors.

[QUOTE=Zero Hunter;3415443]
I just don't see why everyone thinks every heroes goal is to be in the Justice League. Why would they even want to be in the League when all they would always be in the shadows of their mentors.[/QUOTE]

That's why I made the thread.

What should these guys be doing? Should they still be Titans? Leaguers? Something else entirely?

Whether you think the Titans should be a name that remains connected to these specific characters, or a team for each new generation to find itself in, I think we probably all agree that the current direction and book isn't working. So what would you like to see instead? Or, I suppose if you're happy with the Titans as they are now, that's your answer.

Myself, I'd rather see most of the adult Titans move on. Reunions don't work. Its been tried. Again and again and again. And it has never worked. So instead of trying it again and again and again I'd rather just see DC let the characters move on. A few of them joining the League makes sense to me, like with Vic. With others, it doesn't make sense. But there's more options out there than remaining a Titan or joining the League. Hell, I'd love to see Arsenal working for Argus or Checkmate again, like he did back in the day.

[QUOTE=Denirac;3415225]No. Grayson should never be like Batman, its one of the things I like about Young Justice's version of him. He never wanted and feared he would become the Batman[/QUOTE]

It's not that he's [I]like[/I] Batman. It's that he has the mantle. He's still Dick Grayson but with the mantle of the Batman. It's key for him and his growth as a character.

They should give them to Young Animal and let those guys come up with something. I just want the Titans to be cool and contemporary again. The Titans don't have to be better then the JL, just cooler :cool:.

[QUOTE=Zero Hunter;3415443]What people seem to not get about the Titans is they are a team because they are friends. It is not about working their way into the Justice League or training the younger kids it is about friends working together. That is the central core of what the Titans are. This is a book that needs to play up the soap opera elements of them being young adults and friends. Less big fights and more smaller stories and character building is what the Titans need. That and Starfire should be in the Titans.[/QUOTE]

Well, the Titans didn't start out as friends. That came with time, and really didn't happen until after Raven brought them back together (with a few new faces) to combat Trigon. That's when the Titans were at their most popular; when they were fighting inter-dimensional demon lords and international terrorist groups and the friendships were growing as a reaction to their team, not the main force behind it.

And using "friendship" as a reason for them to still be a team hasn't really sold well. Not one of the reunion titles has done all that well. Even if friendship was the primary reason they became a team as kids it doesn't mean its a good reason for them to be one as adults.

At least that's how I feel about it.

EDIT: Sorry man, I meant this to be one reply, but my pc messed it up.