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[QUOTE=Aahz;5407336]
Btw. how about casting Lucius with a white character, there isn't really anything about him that really requires that he is black...[/QUOTE]lol, okay. As a black person myself, I actually wouldn’t mind, since I’m indifferent to Lucius as a character but here’s why some would argue against that:
Any black or POC character created as a character within the white dominated comic book world, even if their race is not explicitly laid out in the narrative is default racial representation for the minority population. Lucius Fox could in theory be cast as a white man but by doing that you strip away one of the very few non-white supporting characters in the Batman world(a world that’s virtually white male dominated). So it isn’t really the same case as race-swapping someone like James Gordon who’s a white character in a majority white comic book world where so few characters who are non-white. Changing Lucius to a white person just means changing him to be yet another white guy in the very white person dominated Batman world, that simply isn’t the case with casting a non-white actor to play a traditionally white role.
Please free to call my explanation BS, and disagree. Just articulating why race-changing a minority character isn’t really the same thing as race-swapping a white character. A more interesting question you should ask is what if you cast an Asian person as Lucius Fox as opposed to a black person? An Asian person is a POC as well but...in that case you’re casting them in a non-Asian POC role. That could be fodder for more interesting discussions.
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I don't think the are really only "very few non-white supporting characters in the Batman". Ok the older better known ones are all white nut they added plenty of non white characters in the last 20-30 years.
Gotham Central had iirc ceveral minority characters, and with Tim Fox as the newest I count (without the Outlaws) at least 7 black heroes that were part of the extended Batfamily in past 20 years.
And Lucius Fox became of course a relativity well know character with the Nolan Movies, and was at least there as important as Gordon and Alfred for Bruce.
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[QUOTE=Triniking1234;5407187]The other user's concern was that he hates the character, which he doesn't. [B]However, it would be better idea to include someone who has a better grasp of the character than someone who crammed before the test.[/B][/QUOTE]
Coates' job is to lay down the story tracks for the movie, highlighting the main beats and turning points of the story which includes many a character. The actor's job is to get a better grasp of the character within the story. Which as a writer, Coates has no say over that so that's totally out of his hands. Rest assured, this movie is still in its early stages of development. Coates will not be the only writer attached to this film. It's common to have a team of four to nine writers attached on any given film (at least the ones who are credited). One should expect Coates script to undergo many revisions along the way until post-production.
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[QUOTE=Common Writer;5406443]hmm, yea like a Black Superman... of Earth-23.[/QUOTE]
No because a black Superman won't be about the adventure, action, romance and the iconic story that Superman has always been. It will be about why is he black and not white anymore.
You think audiences will ignore his new race, ethnicity or whatever you want to call it? No. It will just be a big distraction, IMO. It won't be the ICONIC Superman we have known for nearly 90 years. It will be a totally different character. They should call him something else not Clark Kent.
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[QUOTE=stargazer01;5407687]No because a black Superman won't be about the adventure, action, romance and the iconic story that Superman has always been. It will be about why is he black and not white anymore.
You think audiences will ignore his new race, ethnicity or whatever you want to call it? No. It will just be a big distraction, IMO. It won't be the ICONIC Superman we have known for nearly 90 years. It will be a totally different character. They should call him something else not Clark Kent.[/QUOTE]
If audiences are that distracted by his race being changed that they can't focus on the film they're watching then that says more about them, honestly.
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5406159]A good politicaly charged Superman story could be a good thing, as long as it is also action heavy and exciting.
Would Coates be able to deliver all of that in a package?
All-Star at least had the implication that Clark had his Superboy career and didn't become a superhero due to training with Ghost Dad for 12 years, plus all the other crazy Silver Age-ish stuff that they didn't have the budget to pull off. And aside from doing the Phantom Zoners over and over again, none of it has really made it into a big film.
I also think the over dependence on guidance from parents (especially Jor-El and the Kents living after he leaves Smallville) greatly need to be downplayed.[/QUOTE]
This is why I said to borrow from all across the Superman media that has been a hit with fans and general audiences. And you can't just ignore Donner (one example) just because you don't think highly of it. Many fans and the mainstream still see that as THE Superman. This is also why the new Superman and Lois show can't totally ignore Snyder's Man of Steel or the Smallville TV show. They want to attract as many Supeman fans as they can, not alienate them with something totally different, IMO.
[QUOTE]I think the key to a great Superman movie is borrowing from all that has worked with most fans. Ignoring Donner altogether is not the key to pleasing most people. The Superman and Lois show is borrowing from all Superman media and most people are enjoying it. You won't please everyone at this point, but you can please most.
Also, new Superman villains like Braniac need to show up to challenge him. Show new stuff audiences haven't seen. Take him to space, to new places. Wow the audiences while keeping Superman in character and making us care about his journey.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Common Writer;5407650]Coates' job is to lay down the story tracks for the movie, highlighting the main beats and turning points of the story which includes many a character. The actor's job is to get a better grasp of the character within the story. Which as a writer, Coates has no say over that so that's totally out of his hands. Rest assured, this movie is still in its early stages of development. Coates will not be the only writer attached to this film. It's common to have a team of four to nine writers attached on any given film (at least the ones who are credited). One should expect Coates script to undergo many revisions along the way until post-production.[/QUOTE]
I guess the worry is for Coates' grasp of the character in terms of defining the story, but maybe he's a better Superhero plotter or outliner than he is a Superhero writer..
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5407704]I guess the worry is for Coates' grasp of the character in terms of defining the story, but maybe he's a better Superhero plotter or outliner than he is a Superhero writer..[/QUOTE]
Didn't Chris Terrio win an Oscar as a writer? We saw what happened with BvS and soon with the Snyder cut of JL. Being a good writer doesn't mean you can get the essence of iconic characters. He needs to do a big research if he want some good results.
[QUOTE]If audiences are that distracted by his race being changed that they can't focus on the film they're watching then that says more about them, honestly.[/QUOTE]
Let's blame the audience.. that's what Zack Snyder does when people don't get his movies.
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[QUOTE=stargazer01;5407711]
Let's blame the audience.. that's what Zack Snyder does when people don't get his movies.[/QUOTE]
You brought the audience into this, not me. And you specifically stated that the writing wouldn't matter, so bringing up Snyder, who's criticized for his poor characterization and not simply the complexion of his characters, doesn't really track. If race is that big of an issue for some people then that IS on them, period.
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[QUOTE=80sbaby;5407719]You brought the audience into this, not me. And you specifically stated that the writing wouldn't matter, so bringing up Snyder, who's criticized for his poor characterization and not simply the complexion of his characters, doesn't really track. If race is that big of an issue for some people then that IS on them, period.[/QUOTE]
so you think a black Superman will not get any kind of special attention?? Especially in this times?
And I mentioned Chris Terrio, an Academy Award winner.
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[QUOTE=stargazer01;5407728]so you think a black Superman will not get any kind of special attention?? Especially in this times?
And I mentioned Chris Terrio, an Academy Award winner.[/QUOTE]
Don't move the goal posts. We didn't say anything about "special attention." You claimed his race would be such a factor that audiences would ignore everything else about the film. If you want to say the publicity/articles written will focus on that, cool. However if an audience member only focuses on his race then, again, that's on them.
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[QUOTE=Aahz;5407479]I don't think the are really only "very few non-white supporting characters in the Batman". Ok the older better known ones are all white nut they added plenty of non white characters in the last 20-30 years.
[/QUOTE]
This was posted awhile ago as well.
[QUOTE]
DC and Marvel comics are highly diverse.They are more diverse then dc and marvel movies on average.The dc and marvel shows are more diverse then dc and marvel movies too on average.
The new black female ironman is really called iron-heart by the way.Tony stark is still around.There are alot of black,asian and latino superheroes in dc and marvel comics and other comics in the u.s.
There are alot of brown and some native american superheroes too in comics.So a lot of poc superheroes are in comics in the u.s. and worldwide like asia, latin america,africa,europe etc..
It's growing.
Don't forget milestone comics that have mostly poc is apart of dc even if it's not in the main dc universe.
There comicbook companies in u.s. with alot of poc,like image,lionforge( this a new one)idw,valiant comics etc...
There are other superhero comics/companies that are from the americas, latin america,africa,native american,arab,asian,europe etc..etc.. as well
[/QUOTE]
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I don't want to continue this debate since I had LONG ones when Miles was introduced and then when the Josh Trak 2015 Fantastic Four movie was released because people couldn't wrap their heads around Johnny being black, Sue being white and them being adopted brother and sister (instead of blood siblings). BTW that Fantastic Four movie SUCKED but it had nothing to do with Johnny being black and him and Sue being adopted siblings. Like I mentioned, there is nothing wrong with a black superman from another universe and keeping the main line Clark Kent in tack. If can't get over the race change even for an elesworlds story, that says more about you than anything else.
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[QUOTE=Iron_Legion87;5407886]If can't get over the race change even for an elesworlds story, that says more about you than anything else.[/QUOTE]
Alllllllllllllll of this.
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[QUOTE=Amadeus Arkham;5407311]If you oppose a black Superman[/QUOTE]
Eh, I'm against a black Clark Kent - I'm fine with a black Superman like Val-Zod or Calvin Ellis.
[QUOTE]I have an issue with you pretending there’s an equivalency between white-washing non-white[/QUOTE]
I've pretended no such thing - I personally dislike them equally, true, but I never said the were morally/culturally equivalent. Do not make that assumption of me, please.
