-
Comics aren't fascist, but they are authoritarian. Fascism is a very specific subset of authoritarian that is actually rather rare in comics, despite the word being misused often.
Comics are authoritarian because they are heavily inspired by Christianity, King Arthur stuff, Greek/Norse mythology, etc. None of those things have much use for democracy. All take this as a fundamental truth: that there is an objective morality, the protagonist can see it clearly, and everyone else is blind to it, including the masses. Democracy is synonymous with the masses. Comics are therefore far more comfortable with the Rightful King and his Paladins than Presidents, since the Rightful King and his Paladins can clearly see the one true morality, and the President is just the representative of mob rule and the blind masses.
-
[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4472366]So you found zero examples and are just posting to stir stuff up, good to know.
Tfst plot point is so stupid it’s not been referred to once since then.[/QUOTE]
Aren't you moving your goalposts a little too fast?
First you say that the dictator of a totalitarian regime Doctor Doom couldn't possibly be fascist because he never called for genocides. When you are provided with a story in which the dictator plans and executes the genocide of mutantkind, you just say "this is stupid" and refuses to acknowledge it.
What do you gain by doing it? You think the Totalitarian Genocider Dictator Doctor Doom can't possibly be fascist?
-
Doom isn't fascist, he's monarchist.
-
[QUOTE=Missing Username;4472452]Aren't you moving your goalposts a little too fast?[/QUOTE]
1. These are comics. Stories and plot points change as per writer/editor. The rule of thumb is that a story that is stupid and rejected by fans and which later writers downplay or ignore didn’t happen.
2. The comic itself makes it ambiguous if Doom is responsible or not. Since fellow mutants like Wolverine think it’s bunk.
In any case, the decimation would not qualify as an act of genocide. What happened there is that Wanda said no more mutants and because of that a huge chunk of mutants lost powers. I.e it didn’t kill them. A lot of mutants who lost powers still survived. That’s still more merciful than the US government of Marvel who sent sentinels to hunt down and murder mutants in cold blood, including children and teenagers
-
Doom never specifically planned M-Day or anything. He just gave Wanda the Life Force knowing it would damage her mind and cause her to do crazy ****.
-
[QUOTE=SuperiorIronman;4472432]Was this peer reviewed?[/QUOTE]
In many ways this thesis is being peer reviewed right here and shown severely wanting.
-
[QUOTE=JKtheMac;4472495]In many ways this thesis is being peer reviewed right here and shown severely wanting.[/QUOTE]
Understatement.
This thesis is half-baked and is riddled with association and post hoc fallacies.
-
[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4472479]1. These are comics. Stories and plot points change as per writer/editor. The rule of thumb is that a story that is stupid and rejected by fans and which later writers downplay or ignore didn’t happen. [/QUOTE]
Don't ask for evidence of this or that if you plan on ignoring it, then. What is your deal?
[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4472479]In any case, the decimation would not qualify as an act of genocide.[/QUOTE]
You really want to die on this hill?
Doom is a dictator. Doom rules a totalitarian regime. Doom kills dissidents. Doom has planned and executed the erasure of a kind of people due to their gene pool.
Those are facts. That Nadia Pym, Reed Richards and Valeria Richards see nothing wrong with any of that are also facts.
You really think that "fascist" is too heavy a word to describe a totalitarian dictator that does all those things?
-
[QUOTE=Missing Username;4472529]
Doom is a dictator. Doom rules a totalitarian regime. Doom kills dissidents. Doom has planned and executed the erasure of a kind of people due to their gene pool.
You really think that "fascist" is too heavy a word to describe a totalitarian dictator that does all those things?[/QUOTE]
Actually, yes. Fascism is an ideology which leads to actions and not the actions themselves. What you described were all actions taken by various men and women throughout human history.
Let's take the Qin Dynasty in China for example. It collapsed basically after a generation since A) so much power was concentrated in the emperor and B) madness from drinking mercury. Dissidents were punched with the death sentence of being force to work on the Great Wall. And let's not forget the blood bath of conquests and anti-Mongolian sentiment under basically all of Chinese history.
-
[QUOTE=Wiccan;4472481]Doom never specifically planned M-Day or anything. He just gave Wanda the Life Force knowing it would damage her mind and cause her to do crazy ****.[/QUOTE]
Exactly this. It might not make any sense, but he was wanting her to lose it, so he could take on the power himself. I'm not sure why he couldn't have just wielded the power from the very beginning. But comics...
-
[QUOTE=Missing Username;4472529]Don't ask for evidence of this or that if you plan on ignoring it, then. What is your deal?
[/quote]
My deal is that you seem to hate Doom and are coating this thread with click bait title and pretentious statements to justify it. Hating Doom is fine. It’s your right. You would be in the company of talented writers like Waid. But don’t do it by making dumb statements.
Dr. Doom is the creation of two Jewish artists, one of whom is a world war 2 veteran and none of them ever saw or presented Doom as a fascist. If you did research you would know tha
-
I think the OP is misusing the term so it can be applied to characters who do not fit the accepted criteria for being fascists of fascistic.
For clarification purposes here is how the Encyclopedia Britannica defines Fascism -
"....Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation...."
[URL="https://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism"]https://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism[/URL]
-
[QUOTE=U.N. Owen;4472548]Actually, yes. Fascism is an ideology which leads to actions and not the actions themselves. What you described were all actions taken by various men and women throughout human history. [/QUOTE]
So Doctor Doom isn't a fascist, he is just a totalitarian ruler that does exactly what fascist rulers do?
That is a way to cope, I guess
[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4472559]Dr. Doom is the creation of two Jewish artists, one of whom is a world war 2 veteran and none of them ever saw or presented Doom as a fascist. If you did research you would know that.[/QUOTE]
This is bizarre. This is like saying that Darkseid can't posdibly be fascist because he was created by Jack Kirby.
Doom is a villain. Is it impossible for jewish creators to write fascist even if they are villains?
[QUOTE=Celgress;4472589]I think the OP is misusing the term so it can be applied to characters who do not fit the accepted criteria for being fascists of fascistic.
For clarification purposes here is how the Encyclopedia Britannica defines Fascism -
"....Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation..."[/QUOTE]
What here doesn't fit Doctor Doom and Latveria?
-
[QUOTE=U.N. Owen;4472519]Understatement.
This thesis is half-baked and is riddled with association and post hoc fallacies.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely, as are some of the rebuttals, which is kind of my point ;)
-
[QUOTE=Missing Username;4472603]So Doctor Doom isn't a fascist, he is just a totalitarian ruler that does exactly what fascist rulers do?
That is a way to cope, I guess
[/QUOTE]
If you had bothered to read my post, you would have noted that fascism is an ideology and what you had listed are actions.
Not all dictators are fascists but all fascists are dictators.