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This is really is a bad look on Spider-Gwen. They are making her in to an empty character that can't stand on her own.
The change from Spider-Gwen to Ghost Spider was the beginning of the end for the character, wasn't it?
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[QUOTE=Vegeta;5822830]Yeesh, I'm starting to miss the days when Gwen Stacy was nothing more than a corpse.[/QUOTE]
On god
[QUOTE=Frontier;5822882]Is the new message that Gwen Stacy is so ill-defined that she can basically be anything?[/QUOTE]
Yes, she's a famous name but people have no idea who she is as a character so they just slap the Gwen name on characters to make their OC's more famous.Gwenpoole was one example.
People are tired of general Spider-verse being the new status quo, and they just took those individual Spider-verse characters and gave them their own verses(Miles has the same pitch in What if form coming around this).
I thought they would just use 65 Gwen as the norm but apparently even she won't make an actual mark...
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5822882]Is the new message that Gwen Stacy is so ill-defined that she can basically be anything?[/QUOTE]
Well, that's certainly what was happening with her back in Lee/Romita run, so hey, they're continuing that poorly writen trend in spirit :D.
[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5822898]Yes, she's a famous name but people have no idea who she is as a character so they just slap the Gwen name on characters to make their OC's more famous.Gwenpoole was one example.[/quote]
At least Gwen Pool stopped going by "Gwen Stacy" once she became an actual character lol.
But yeah, Gwen is poorly defined and adaptations generally only keep the "She's a woman, white and blonde" traits, personality and looks can be really different, and as much as I prefer Spectacular Gwen over the original, Spectacular Gwen has very little in common with any of the personalities the original had, to the point her looks are closer to Debra Whitman's (And I thought it was Debra the first time I saw her), and the childhood friend thing is from Ultimate MJ.
[quote]People are tired of general Spider-verse being the new status quo, and they just took those individual Spider-verse characters and gave them their own verses(Miles has the same pitch in What if form coming around this).[/quote]
Huh, well, good thing I don't watch those what ifs :p.
[quote]I thought they would just use 65 Gwen as the norm but apparently even she won't make an actual mark...[/QUOTE]
Well, Spider-Gwen doesn't equate comics sales if her multiple cancellations are any hint lol.
Not saying that she can't sell, just that whatever she got on the comics, wasn't good enough for sales, and that happens, sucks, but it happens.
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[QUOTE=Lukmendes;5822924]
At least Gwen Pool stopped going by "Gwen Stacy" once she became an actual character lol.
But yeah, Gwen is poorly defined and adaptations generally only keep the "She's a woman, white and blonde" traits, personality and looks can be really different, and as much as I prefer Spectacular Gwen over the original, Spectacular Gwen has very little in common with any of the personalities the original had, to the point her looks are closer to Debra Whitman's (And I thought it was Debra the first time I saw her), and the childhood friend thing is from Ultimate MJ.
Huh, well, good thing I don't watch those what ifs :p.
Well, Spider-Gwen doesn't equate comics sales if her multiple cancellations are any hint lol.
Not saying that she can't sell, just that whatever she got on the comics, wasn't good enough for sales, and that happens, sucks, but it happens.[/QUOTE]
Agreed w/ all of this
Atleast Spec. and TASM have her be a normal civilian, which should be the norm for adaptations.Spider-gwen works for stuff like ITSV.As in they shouldn't have Spider-gwen in Insomniac
Also that Miles what if is a comic series where we will see alt. Earths where he's diff. heroes like Hulk, Cap, Wolverine, Thor, etc.So Gwen's pitch here but in a what if book more or less
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[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5822948]Atleast Spec. and TASM have her be a normal civilian, which should be the norm for adaptations.Spider-gwen works for stuff like ITSV.As in they shouldn't have Spider-gwen in Insomniac [/quote]
I guess the problem with adapting Gwen is this expectation that she's gonna die, and while ironically she usually doesn't, having that hanging over her, yeah...
A civilian Gwen at this point might feel novel considering how she's usually seen as super-hero now.
Perhaps the best way to adapt her as a civilian without the expectation of her being killed is to do it more or less like Raimi's Spider-Man, where she's introduced when Peter is already dating MJ.
Then again, we had a situation like that in Ultimate and that didn't stop Gwen from being killed, but then again again, she got better lol.
[quote]Also that Miles what if is a comic series where we will see alt. Earths where he's diff. heroes like Hulk, Cap, Wolverine, Thor, etc.So Gwen's pitch here but in a what if book more or less[/QUOTE]
Wolverine Miles just irks me, it's like, putting salt in ice cream...
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[QUOTE=Lukmendes;5822977]I guess the problem with adapting Gwen is this expectation that she's gonna die, and while ironically she usually doesn't, having that hanging over her, yeah...
A civilian Gwen at this point might feel novel considering how she's usually seen as super-hero now.
Perhaps the best way to adapt her as a civilian without the expectation of her being killed is to do it more or less like Raimi's Spider-Man, where she's introduced when Peter is already dating MJ.
Then again, we had a situation like that in Ultimate and that didn't stop Gwen from being killed, but then again again, she got better lol.[/quote]
Adapting her and then killing her isn't a terrible thing, her death in TASM 2 is one of the best scenes in all of CBM's IMO.And Spec Gwen would die as well acc. to creator.
I say stop milking her name dry and move on, if you want a Superhero then make one and stop using her name to give your OC's more relevance.It's shameless
[quote]Wolverine Miles just irks me, it's like, putting salt in ice cream...[/QUOTE]
Have to agree.
These ideas both do tbh, it's opposite of what creative is.And just cements Miles as just a legacy character(of all straight white men as well) and Gwen as being even more of a name than a character.Even one of these pitches would have been dumb, but 2 being announced on the same say.
The thing is even if the execution is good(which looking at Gwen's book writer isn't likely) the idea itself is inherently flawed.They are doing the opposite of what they should i.e. cementing their characterization for the audience(atleast Miles is a what if IG)
Just praying they give Peter and a writer who respects him(unlike Slott and co. who love to humiliate him for no reason, we had a good discussion about that over at DD thread and why DD runs are always so good.It was relatively recent and stems from the 2 issue DD and Black Cat hook up and seems like something right up your ally) and doesn't pull any multiverse stuff.
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[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5822984]Adapting her and then killing her isn't a terrible thing, her death in TASM 2 is one of the best scenes in all of CBM's IMO.And Spec Gwen would die as well acc. to creator.[/quote]
Having her around to die is predictable, and that's the real issue here, and even when it doesn't happen, it's really expected by default.
[quote]I say stop milking her name dry and move on, if you want a Superhero then make one and stop using her name to give your OC's more relevance.It's shameless[/quote]
Well, problem is that brand recognition is a thing, they'll have no reason to stop using Spider-Gwen because her name makes more money than any of the other Spider-Women.
[quote]These ideas both do tbh, it's opposite of what creative is.And just cements Miles as just a legacy character(of all straight white men as well) and Gwen as being even more of a name than a character.Even one of these pitches would have been dumb, but 2 being announced on the same say.[/quote]
In Miles' case, I'm not sure if it's saying he's just a legacy, it sounds like just dumb fun and easy money making, with Gwen it's different since her comics keep getting cancelled, so it looks like Marvel's trying to do something dumb with her 'cause there's not much else they think it can be done, or at least that's how I see it.
[quote]The thing is even if the execution is good(which looking at Gwen's book writer isn't likely) the idea itself is inherently flawed.They are doing the opposite of what they should i.e. cementing their characterization for the audience(atleast Miles is a what if IG)[/quote]
Yeah, this idea would already look dumb even if Gwen's comic was selling well, but since they tend to get cancelled, it manages to look worse lol.
It's actually funny it was a plot point in one of Gwen's comic that Gwen dying is a multiversal constant and one of Gwen's counterparts was saving other Gwens in secret, but now so many Gwens are showing up in this, so that looks ridiculous now lol.
[quote]Just praying they give Peter and a writer who respects him(unlike Slott and co. who love to humiliate him for no reason, we had a good discussion about that over at DD thread and why DD runs are always so good.It was relatively recent and stems from the 2 issue DD and Black Cat hook up and seems like something right up your ally)[/quote]
Yeah I saw parts of that discussion, but I haven't read the issues nor do I know where it happens, so I can't really comment on that lol.
[quote]and doesn't pull any multiverse stuff.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, multiverse stuff is just annoying, specially if it's used to make a bunch of big names into fodder.
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[QUOTE=Tofali;5822888]This is really is a bad look on Spider-Gwen. They are making her in to an empty character that can't stand on her own.
The change from Spider-Gwen to Ghost Spider was the beginning of the end for the character, wasn't it?[/QUOTE]
Here’s the awkward part for Marvel: the explosion in attention made Gwen more popular than the actual Spider-Woman. You’re left with a difficult decision: have Gwen completely take over the mantle and rewrite the mythos to make her Spider-Woman (much like what happened with Carol Danvers and Captain Marvel) or awkwardly try to segue her to a different identity. It did not help that Jason Letour is disgraced and Robbi Rodriguez burned his bridges at Marvel, and those are the creators of the Spider-Gwen concept.
Weird thing is that I think Gwen is still a more popular Spider-Woman than Jessica. But Marvel just keeps dropping the ball.
I think the only way to see if the concept truly has legs is to stick Gwen and Peter together as a Spider-Couple in a book or something and see what happens.
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[QUOTE=macattack;5823365]Here’s the awkward part for Marvel: the explosion in attention made Gwen more popular than the actual Spider-Woman. You’re left with a difficult decision: have Gwen completely take over the mantle and rewrite the mythos to make her Spider-Woman (much like what happened with Carol Danvers and Captain Marvel) or awkwardly try to segue her to a different identity. It did not help that Jason Letour is disgraced and Robbi Rodriguez burned his bridges at Marvel, and those are the creators of the Spider-Gwen concept.
Weird thing is that I think Gwen is still a more popular Spider-Woman than Jessica. But Marvel just keeps dropping the ball.
I think the only way to see if the concept truly has legs is to stick Gwen and Peter together as a Spider-Couple in a book or something and see what happens.[/QUOTE]
She's a teen and Peter's an adult so can't be 616(although they need to team up and explore that more, not a romance because age gap makes that disgusting.They have some moments that are bangers).But I think a Peter would help her, but not a Spider-man.Like Spec. and TASM cements the Peter Gwen working for relatively casual audiences.
I say get a decent creative team and explore 65 Peter through Gwen, show us the past of those 2. 65 Peter was much more severely bullied and Gwen was kinda his only friend, and we have barely seen anything of him even in flashbacks.Flesh that out and maybe then bring him back/or a similar version from multiverse.I'd say Miles but he's not part of her backstory and 1610/616 is way too big a character now and would overshadow her(still some team ups would be cool, even though their dynamic isn't all that).
But the tables are flipped as in Gwen in the main protagonist and this Peter's the love interest who can maybe help out because intelligence, etc.
[B]Even this is a reach though, but anything they could do would be better than this pitch...[/B]
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5822882]Is the new message that Gwen Stacy is so ill-defined that she can basically be anything?[/QUOTE]
Spider-Gwen was literally just a cool costume which took off so at least that fits. Gwen is just Peter’s dead girlfriend and I guess Miles’ living one after ITSV2.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;5823544]Spider-Gwen was literally just a cool costume which took off so at least that fits. Gwen is just Peter’s dead girlfriend and I guess Miles’ living one after ITSV2.[/QUOTE]
i imagine someone saying that gwen is mj's girlfriend for their ship
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[QUOTE=Lukmendes;5819563]Someday we're probably gonna make jokes that sound incomprehensible if we pull stuff like this from more obscure, or older runs lol.
Or perhaps we're already like that, perhaps that "more Spider-Trivia than man" dark future isn't exclusive to me :D.
Hey now, MJ is not green, or a terrorist, or a green terrorist [/QUOTE]
Someday we will find that issue where Peter insults Electro's starfish mask :p.
The darkness embraced me long ago Luk, my job is simply dragging you to it. Still don't worry, you can always had the future of the android that provides scans ;)
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Well, this is weird, but I'm actually interested on the idea of Spider-Gwen and "Night-Gwen" meeting each other.
However, I would like the story around Earth-65's Mary Jane being infected by Carnage to have a proper ending. That was a very disturbing cliffhanger for me.
And, since we are have a "Gwenverse", how about a "Mary Jane-verse"? I mean, this Gwenverse seems to come from the covers where she was eevry hero in the MU, so why not another with Mary Jane since we are on it? I would personally like to see a world where Mary Jane was bitten by the radioactive spider after Peter instead of Cindy Moon.
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[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5823421][B]She's a teen and Peter's an adult so can't be 616(although they need to team up and explore that more, not a romance because age gap makes that disgusting.They have some moments that are bangers).But I think a Peter would help her, but not a Spider-man.Like Spec. and TASM cements the Peter Gwen working for relatively casual audiences.[/B]
I say get a decent creative team and explore 65 Peter through Gwen, show us the past of those 2. 65 Peter was much more severely bullied and Gwen was kinda his only friend, and we have barely seen anything of him even in flashbacks.Flesh that out and maybe then bring him back/or a similar version from multiverse.I'd say Miles but he's not part of her backstory and 1610/616 is way too big a character now and would overshadow her(still some team ups would be cool, even though their dynamic isn't all that).
But the tables are flipped as in Gwen in the main protagonist and this Peter's the love interest who can maybe help out because intelligence, etc.
[B]Even this is a reach though, but anything they could do would be better than this pitch...[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm talking an adult Spider-Gwen and adult Peter (or alternatively make them both teens but adults would be more interesting). Sorry for not making myself clear on that.
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[QUOTE=macattack;5823999]I'm talking an adult Spider-Gwen and adult Peter (or alternatively make them both teens but adults would be more interesting). Sorry for not making myself clear on that.[/QUOTE]
Oh okay, my bad.Makes more sense
I do think making Gwen like 20-21 is what the character may need.Miles is the teen teen, and Peter is kinda full adult now.So she can be the young adult.
And we'd avoid the Miles ship which isn't it in the comics(great in ITSV is great though) so there's another plus
