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[QUOTE=BohemiaDrinker;3378376]
That said, I'm not oposed to Supergirl being in this series, nor do I think that they'd use her kryptonian origin as a plot point here - if they do, I'll be the [B]first[/B] to call BS. What I believe they'll exploit with Supergirl is [B]gender[/B], how she wears the S and has all the powers and all the competence as her cousin, how she's in fact white and young and a model of beauty and perfect by all of our society standards and [B]yet[/B], despite all this, she's is put in a lesser place because of being a female. And that's fine, really, and there'sd no btter character than Supergirl to make that point.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's the angle they should be going at.
Fictional minorities (i.e., characters which belongs to a minority which can't exists in our real world, like Kryptonians on Earth) are quite fine when it comes to dealing with some troubles real minorities suffer while the authors thinks that using said real minorities wouldn't allow for an audience large enough (If Superman had been a Black or Latino in appearance, would have he worked as well as he did ? it's debatable, at best). But when the main point of the mini-series is to highlight the viewpoint of minorities which are actively disfranchised, I don't think it would works.
However, Supergil is a woman, with all the problems it entails in our world (#MeToo anybody) ? She is at least as strong as her cousin (in some stories, I remember that it was even implied that she is stronger than him, but I may be wrong here). She has at least as much scientific knowledge as he does (probably more, since she actually studied on Krypton to become a scientific, if I remember right and could probably learn more about sciences relatively easily)... and yet she'll always play second feeble to Clark. in a sense, it's the allegory of what women suffer in a work place : they may be as competent as the men they work with, but it doesn't matter in the end, they'll be paid significantly less (as a recent scandal in the BBC revealed, for instance).
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[QUOTE=Johnny;3377937]It makes no difference that Supergirl or Superman are fictional characters from a fictional planet, the concept of the characters is very much grounded in reality. It's aliens trying to integrate within a different society. Siegel and Shuster were two white guys yet they had experienced bigotry for being Jewish. Superman's arch enemy is a bigot who thinks aliens have no place on Earth and can be rather extreme in his methods of expressing himself about it. It goes beyond the surface level of Clark and Kara's physical appearance, it's about how they struggle to conform to a world that can never truly understand or relate to them. That's all you need to make Supergirl part of this series.
When you learn to stop judging someone purely on the way they look, let me know.[/QUOTE]
And yet Superman was out there punching racist caricatures of the Japanese and being a rep for pro-war, pro-law propaganda.
Once again, where are the aliens in real life?
This discussion started when once again you put on your cape and started crying about how white, straight people weren't allowed at the table. Even though right here on this very forum there are people who complain if any shine appears for any character who isn't white or straight no matter what.
As for Supergirl, I don't care either way but even if it's supposed to be gender, Vixen is already in the book and if they wanted an alien who was also a woman they had many options.
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In the past, Superman, and by extension Supergirl, has been interpreted as an allegory of the immigrant & Jewish experience in America.
Many have spoken about how Kal-El changed his name to "Clark Kent", and assimilated into the American culture, something plenty immigrants & Jewish people have done in the past.
Early post crisis Superman turn his back on Kryptonian culture to fully embrace Earth, a theme some immigrants & minorities have done.
Supergirl dealing with isolation, culture shock, or the frustrations of "blending in" (as her cousin has seamlessly done) could provide worthwhile storytelling.
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[QUOTE=Crazy Diamond;3378757]And yet Superman was out there punching racist caricatures of the Japanese and being a rep for pro-war, pro-law propaganda.
Once again, where are the aliens in real life?
This discussion started when once again you put on your cape and started crying about how white, straight people weren't allowed at the table. Even though right here on this very forum there are people who complain if any shine appears for any character who isn't white or straight no matter what.
As for Supergirl, I don't care either way but even if it's supposed to be gender, Vixen is already in the book and if they wanted an alien who was also a woman they had many options.[/QUOTE]
No, the discussion started when people started complaining that a white and straight character like Supergirl shouldn't be allowed at the table [B]for this type of story[/B]. I merely pointed out the fact that white and straight people seem to automatically be excluded whenever the topic of [I]diversity[/I] is brought up these days, I never suggested that white people have been historically marginalized in America. Choosing to twist my comment the way you see fit to suit your own narrative is your problem, not mine.
For the last time, this has nothing to do with the character or her place of origin not being real.
The Superman example seems a bit redundant. Writers at the time opting to inject their own racist views into the character has nothing to do with the concept behind his creation. In 2018 comic writers still keep using the platform these characters provide them with to shove their political beliefs down fans' throats, often at the expense of what these characters are supposed to stand for.
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[QUOTE=Crazy Diamond;3378757]
As for Supergirl, I don't care either way but even if it's supposed to be gender, Vixen is already in the book and if they wanted an alien who was also a woman they had many options.[/QUOTE]
And the option John Ridley chose to use was Supergirl. Maybe he just likes the character and her background story. Finds her more interesting than other alien women.
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My main concern is whether it will be a good read. All too often, writers that get into socio-political topics such as this get so invested in the soapbox that they forget that the primary purpose of comic books is to entertain.
Which is not to say that these sorts of stories shouldn't be written; just make sure to keep the priorities straight: entertaining story first, social commentary second.
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[QUOTE=Crazy Diamond;3378757]As for Supergirl, I don't care either way but even if it's supposed to be gender, Vixen is already in the book and if they wanted an alien who was also a woman they had many options.[/QUOTE]
Vixen is a black African with (sometimes) a very outspoken and progressive agenda. She's also a uniquer character.
Supergirl is perfect here because she has a direct male counterpart to be contrasted with.
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[QUOTE=Dataweaver;3379030]My main concern is whether it will be a good read. All too often, writers that get into socio-political topics such as this get so invested in the soapbox that they forget that the primary purpose of comic books is to entertain.
Which is not to say that these sorts of stories shouldn't be written; just make sure to keep the priorities straight: entertaining story first, social commentary second.[/QUOTE]
This books whole purpose is social commentary lmao. What are you saying?
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That there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. The wrong way is to treat the characters strictly as cyphers existing only to make a point, and who do things because the plot demands it rather than the plot being a natural extension of the characters. That's not only preachy; it's predictable and boring. These are comic books, first and foremost: the [I]last[/I] thing they should be is boring.
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[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;3378817]In the past, Superman, and by extension Supergirl, has been interpreted as an allegory of the immigrant & Jewish experience in America.
Many have spoken about how Kal-El changed his name to "Clark Kent", and assimilated into the American culture, something plenty immigrants & Jewish people have done in the past.
Early post crisis Superman turn his back on Kryptonian culture to fully embrace Earth, a theme some immigrants & minorities have done.
[B]Supergirl dealing with isolation, culture shock, or the frustrations of "blending in" (as her cousin has seamlessly done) could provide worthwhile storytelling.[/B][/QUOTE]
For those reading her book might notice her "growing" interest in Ben (I wish I was Static) Rubel. It's been implied he doesn't live with his parents and came from somewhere else.
So don't be shocked if IR relationships is explored by John-who is married to a nonblack woman.
[QUOTE]When you learn to stop judging someone purely on the way they look, let me know.[/QUOTE]
Well tell that to the retailers and entitlement fans who have given Marvel HELL about the looks of certain characters.
If this project was done at Marvel-this thread would not be this civil.
It's not that whites can be or should be exclude from this-it's what story can you tell that won't get buried and ignored because certain segments of fandom will only go off on the POC lead parts.
Black folks adopt white kids too.
There were white schools that had not trouble allowing every race into the schools except black (we had a bunch here in Texas).
Throw Clark Kent into a family of Black Panther activists. How would he come out?
You can get just as many stories out of that as you can with POC, LGBT & women leads.
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Thrilled to see this announcement. I'm definitely hoping it helps the problems that the industry has with diversity.
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Sounds like a great book to read, but one to completely ignore any online discussions about ;)
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So adding to some of the weirdness about the promotion of this project, the press release said John Ridley was going to talk about this project on a panel during DC in DC. The panel happened on Saturday and when Ridley was asked about the project, he refused to talk about it. I guess they were some crossed wires on that front.
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[QUOTE=Sam;3379992]So adding to some of the weirdness about the promotion of this project, the press release said John Ridley was going to talk about this project on a panel during DC in DC. The panel happened on Saturday and when Ridley was asked about the project, he refused to talk about it. I guess they were some crossed wires on that front.[/QUOTE]Either that or he was pissed with Donald Trump's latest comments/denials?
[SIZE=1](Yeah, that may be stretching things . . . [/SIZE]
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[QUOTE=Johnny;3378858]No, the discussion started when people started complaining that a white and straight character like Supergirl shouldn't be allowed at the table [B]for this type of story[/B]. I merely pointed out the fact that white and straight people seem to automatically be excluded whenever the topic of [I]diversity[/I] is brought up these days, I never suggested that white people have been historically marginalized in America. Choosing to twist my comment the way you see fit to suit your own narrative is your problem, not mine.
For the last time, this has nothing to do with the character or her place of origin not being real.
The Superman example seems a bit redundant. Writers at the time opting to inject their own racist views into the character has nothing to do with the concept behind his creation. In 2018 comic writers still keep using the platform these characters provide them with to shove their political beliefs down fans' throats, often at the expense of what these characters are supposed to stand for.[/QUOTE]
Seems most of the complaining is coming from posters jumping through hoops to explain why she should be here to be the white savior this story needs to make it “appealing” to a section of the masses ala X-Men( pretty white people being oppressed is far easier to take then the real world reminder). Writers and artist using the medium to express their political beliefs is as old as the medium but it’s only now that a contingent of fans are upset about it get weirdly phalic about it