-
[QUOTE=Tycon;4725678]Holding women down? Having enemies in the X-Men that she sees as threats just like she does with the men and acting on that doesn’t mean she’s holding anyone down. Since she’s reformed, she’s made it her case to make sure the younger women in her lives are protected.
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v3qX6fINiSY/W9pLksR52wI/AAAAAAAACoI/isDhgS8QCagoTL9VXUb2BhQQt4Zu1jW4wCHMYCw/s900/RCO013.jpg[/img][img] https://2.bp.blogspot.com/LtofKCatb8Yab-6B23w8aq9ZM9HUH6fzdfPtRgwpVYUMb64pdxRg0P77dC5CqJkIumdi_wgkakj0=s900[/img][/QUOTE]
I recall this issue and it was nice that emma helped the girl but that is no different than if anyone helped someone in need. IMO. While i do think she believes in femisim and has certain qualities one would associate with a feminist as of Mauraders # 2 i personally don't see her as one. She has a history of targeting young girls in the service of more powerful men. Has she changed? Yes? Has it been addressed to show she has truly moved beyond that and is a feminist herself, time will tell for me. I assume duggan will get there if that's how he sees the character.
Even from this interview she gave kate the red queen position because she wanted to impress her. Meaning that was more about Emma than strengthening other women. Also the cuckoos, they may not be close but thats more nepotism than actually trying to uplift a woman to a status of power. Maybe i just think to highly of feminist, i dunno. But i don't see it. So we too shall have to agree to disagree i guess.
-
Ya'll talking about Emma/X-23 dynamics from freaking NYX written by freaking Joe Quesada? That Joe Quesada who made it his career mission to demote Mary Jane Watson, barely attempted to hide his contempt for Dazzler, and in real life in the 00s', said it was fine there weren't any female writers at the summits simply because there weren't any female writers working on major titles? Whose handling of the Marvel Divas PR was abysmal? Who said as late as this very decade that there was no actress talented enough in Hollywood to carry a superhero film on her shoulders? That Joe Quesada?
Yeah no, I'm going to assume his trashy treatment of Emma in NYX just got retconned out thanks to [I]Secret Wars[/I] or whatever.
-
[QUOTE=Domino_Dare-Doll;4725729]Whether she felt bad or not after the fact is irrelevant to me; if she was so worried about her being so vicious then that was the absolute [I]worst[/I] thing to torment her with. Plus, even going [I]out of her way[/I] to torment her at all--[I]and[/I] being able to see that, clearly, she wasn't a monster because she felt [I]awful[/I] for that memory in the first place. A memory that Laura wasn't 100% at fault for, by the way.
If she had any interest in handling it properly she would have confronted Laura directly in [I]conversation.[/I] Just say "I don't trust you, you're going to have to earn it." Rather than doing what she did.[/QUOTE]
I’m pretty sure Emma did go up to Laura and say “I don’t want you here.” Without bringing up the fact that there was a LOT going on during Decimation, it isn’t in Emma’s character (and it’s also a flaw of hers) to ever be explicitly regretful of things she’s done. It will usually come out in her actions and we see after this that she sends Cyclops out to check in on Laura.
[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4725727]She should have telepathically whipped that child's ass. Thanks for reminding me of how much I wanted Emma to flay Shaw, Tycon.[/QUOTE]
Funny that Shaw doesn’t remember his death because if he did, he probably wouldn’t be messing with Emma now.
[QUOTE=Veitha;4725714]Coming in with the receipts.
I've also always liked her relationship with the Cuckoos since especially at the beginning she really wanted to help them and shine. She tried to help Angel Salvadore too and she also took Armor under wing.
I've also always liked her conversation with Tessa about why she wears lingerie around the Hellfire Club men.[/QUOTE]
She also knew Surge was strong enough to lead the team when she was staring to lose her closeness with her Hellions Squad. And even though she tends to be manipulative, she picks people she knows are willing to make tough decisions for what needs to get done. Her betrayals don’t impede on her judgement of Rogue, Storm, Jean, Kate, and Surge’s leadership abilities.
-
[QUOTE=Confuzzled;4725715]But you also don't like DoX in general, which from my experience is not the popular opinion among us PoC, so maybe you are in the minority among women and their opinions of Emma as well? [/quote]
what not liking DoX, not sure if you made a interview with all pocs that read it, and I like new mutants, x-force and excalibur has anything to do with being a feminist
Well there is many that are fans of her, but she simply doesn't fill the requirements to be feminist
[quote]
I don't think Diana herself would mind one bit lol. And her real-life creator(s) would be [I]very[/I] fascinated with Emma and the BDSM/gender power play themes of the HFC.[/QUOTE]
Diana would really mind someone that used to be ok with raping woman, like what emma did to jean and Storm
don't come with bdsm to distract conversation
[QUOTE=CGAR;4725702]Hey if someone sees themselves as a feminist than that’s what they identify with
Can’t really take that away from them no matter what they’ve done
Yeah but I see your point now.
Another individual can think they are not feminist.[/QUOTE]
Tha ti snot how it works, people and ivanka tried many times hide theirselves to hide behind feminism as Duggas is trying with Emma.
it simply didn't worked as true feminist wouldn't accept them just because they are rich and women doesn't make them
-
-
[QUOTE=Triniking1234;4725892]What's "true feminism"?[/QUOTE]
Calling other women rapists at least 5 times a day.
-
[QUOTE=jwatson;4725512]I have to disagree with duggan calling Emma a feminist. I mean I could see the potential but she is far from one as of right now. Some man always ends up controlling her whether she wants it or not. So I hope we get to see what he was talking about. He also says Emma wants to impress Kate which I can definitely see.[/QUOTE]
She's definitely a feminist when written properly but writers usually like to reduce her to being a glorified parrot on a man's shoulder. I think the writing for HoX and Marauders reflects that for now.
-
[QUOTE=Vegan Daddy;4725740]From Classic X-Men #34
[img]https://media.emmafrostfiles.com/comics/images/PF4wl4xEuCel.jpg[/img]
[img]https://media.emmafrostfiles.com/comics/images/6vnAp42LXUIc.jpg[/img]
[img]https://media.emmafrostfiles.com/comics/images/ErG2iykQsRh9.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Classic.
Emma chose to break ties from her father and family and make her own way. Then uses her self made power to help fund mutant schools and causes.
But make no mistake Emma is a conflicted character who is willing to compromise.
-
[QUOTE=Tycon;4725783]I’m pretty sure Emma did go up to Laura and say “I don’t want you here.” Without bringing up the fact that there was a LOT going on during Decimation, it isn’t in Emma’s character (and it’s also a flaw of hers) to ever be explicitly regretful of things she’s done. It will usually come out in her actions and we see after this that she sends Cyclops out to check in on Laura.[/QUOTE]
This still neither endears me to her, nor leads me to forgive or trust her. Purposely making Laura face that kind of trauma, something she hadn't come to terms with in any way, shape, or form is still a shitty thing to do--[I]especially[/I] when she'd already laid her cards on the table. At that point it's just petty and sociopathic.
-
[QUOTE=Domino_Dare-Doll;4726027]This still neither endears me to her, nor leads me to forgive or trust her. Purposely making Laura face that kind of trauma, something she hadn't come to terms with in any way, shape, or form is still a shitty thing to do--[I]especially[/I] when she'd already laid her cards on the table. At that point it's just petty and sociopathic.[/QUOTE]
She did what she always did: she put her students safety above anything else, including Laura's comfort. Kinda not cool, but hardly this grandiose sin.
-
[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4726048]She did what she always did: she put her students safety above anything else, including Laura's comfort. Kinda not cool, but hardly this grandiose sin.[/QUOTE]
But wasn't technically Laura one of her students? Either way, it doesn't change my opinion of her.
-
[QUOTE=jwatson;4725759]I recall this issue and it was nice that emma helped the girl but that is no different than if anyone helped someone in need. IMO. While i do think she believes in femisim and has certain qualities one would associate with a feminist as of Mauraders # 2 i personally don't see her as one. She has a history of targeting young girls in the service of more powerful men. Has she changed? Yes? Has it been addressed to show she has truly moved beyond that and is a feminist herself, time will tell for me. I assume duggan will get there if that's how he sees the character.
Even from this interview she gave kate the red queen position because she wanted to impress her. Meaning that was more about Emma than strengthening other women. Also the cuckoos, they may not be close but thats more nepotism than actually trying to uplift a woman to a status of power. Maybe i just think to highly of feminist, i dunno. But i don't see it. So we too shall have to agree to disagree i guess.[/QUOTE]
Of course it’s different than any ol person making the same statement. It always matters who is engaged in conversation. She’s beyond moved on from who she was in the 80s and that’s been shown through many of her character exploration arcs. Even in the 80s, her interest in the autonomy of the younger women never correlated to the “powerful men” that y’all keep alluding to. Her interest in Kate or Dani or Angelica or Jubilee or Monet always has to do with testing them (and in Angelica’s case, exploiting her) for sometimes her pleasure and sometimes a genuine effort at trying to strengthen them. Now that Emma’s renounced those ways and is a much more benevolent figure, we see her take that same trait but used in a much more empowering way.
[QUOTE=Domino_Dare-Doll;4726027]This still neither endears me to her, nor leads me to forgive or trust her. Purposely making Laura face that kind of trauma, something she hadn't come to terms with in any way, shape, or form is still a shitty thing to do--[I]especially[/I] when she'd already laid her cards on the table. At that point it's just petty and sociopathic.[/QUOTE]
Emma made her face her trauma to get her to leave, it wasn’t some tough love lesson. She hated X-23 and needed her gone because she thought she was a danger to the students. She didn’t regard X-23 as a child but as a weapon that could go off at any second and kill her kids. Petty? Yeah. Vindictive and mean? Absolutely. Sociopathic. Not at all.
-
[QUOTE=Vegan Daddy;4725740]From Classic X-Men #34
[img]https://media.emmafrostfiles.com/comics/images/PF4wl4xEuCel.jpg[/img]
[img]https://media.emmafrostfiles.com/comics/images/6vnAp42LXUIc.jpg[/img]
[img]https://media.emmafrostfiles.com/comics/images/ErG2iykQsRh9.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Thank you for posting this. Emma story has too many lows to beconsidered a feminist.
This is really bad stuff. Sure the writers that are her fans try a lot to turn the story, but they can't erase this
-
[QUOTE=spirit2011;4726070]Thank you for posting this. Emma story has too many lows to beconsidered a feminist.
This is really bad stuff. Sure the writers that are her fans try a lot to turn the story, but they can erase this[/QUOTE]
Except that she's a completely different person that the cardboard cutout in shown in that panel. It's like posting a panel of early Jean Grey being in danger to claim 2019 Jean Grey is super weak.
-
Yikes who would have thought a harmless comment about Emma being a feminist on spark this type of response.