Snoke vs Darth Vader

Snoke vs Darth Vader

Snoke does have some abilities Vader didn't but I think Vader overall has better feats in combat.

The one who didn't get cut in half, despite having precondition or whatever the hell it was.

[QUOTE=Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh;4412493]The one who [b]didn't get cut in half, despite having precondition[/B] or whatever the hell it was.[/QUOTE]

So NOT Vader then? ;p

Edit- not strictly accurate I guess, Vader only lost all his limbs and precog wasn't as clear cut

[QUOTE=The Dork Knight;4412580]So NOT Vader then? ;p

Edit- not strictly accurate I guess, Vader only lost all his limbs and precog wasn't as clear cut[/QUOTE]

Yea he just had to pay two arms and two legs for his precog :p

Does Snoke even have any notable combat feats? All I can think of are his showing prior to the throne room fight but I’m not sure if that’s even applicable to this scenario given the massive amount of experience and teaching between Vader and Rey.

Snoke was weird. He had CRAZY Force feats but no saber stuff.

He can ricochet lightning off of surfaces and strike down Kylo before the dude could predict the attack. He can perform complicated force maneuvers without a single gesture or hand motion, such as spinning Rey around the room while restraining her and searching her mind. He can bridge two minds from across light years of distance without being detected.

Heck, cant the dude just go for a neck snap at the bell? IIRC, Vader always needed a gesture or associated hand motion for his Force stuff, which might suggest Snoke could beat him out in the quick draw.

Edit: can Force users even neck snap someone? Not a regular person, I mean like another Force user.

Darth Zannah snapped two jedi’s neck before she was even trained so yes.

But then you gotta ask if he can get past Vader’s force bubble etc. I mean sure he beat up kylo and rey but they were very new to the force compared to Vader.

Is force lightning still Vader's personal kryptonite?

Force...bubble?

[QUOTE=The Arbiter;4412728]Snoke was weird. He had CRAZY Force feats but no saber stuff.

He can ricochet lightning off of surfaces and strike down Kylo before the dude could predict the attack. He can perform complicated force maneuvers without a single gesture or hand motion, such as spinning Rey around the room while restraining her and searching her mind. He can bridge two minds from across light years of distance without being detected. [/QUOTE]

He also had a weird hole in the side of his face that looked like it would make eating problematic.

[QUOTE=wjowski;4413274]Is force lightning still Vader's personal kryptonite?[/QUOTE]

The lightening only messed Vader up because his hand was chopped off and he had circuits exposed. A conductor like that would do some lethal damage. There was a moment where Luke noticed that in Return of the Jedi.

Anakin was an accomplished mechanic. I'm sure he modified his armor so it can take some punishment.

As for Snoke. I agree, he's a weird case. He was performing some complex Force Techniques from light years away. But against somebody as experienced and skilled like Vader?

My money is on Darth Vader

[QUOTE=Sharpandpointies;4413764]Force...bubble?[/QUOTE]

It’s when you surround yourself with the force....why else do you think they just don’t disarm each other in fights or force choke?

I get the impression that the Force requires too much concentration for casual use while simultaneously fencing. That's why they usually restrict it to quick shoves, saving more elaborate uses for when there are luls in combat that put distance between opponents. Vader only using the force when Luke is battered and retreating or in the freezer gizmo. Maul only using the force when Obi and Quigon are at a distance and slowly approaching him, and then one quick gamble when fighting Obi. This force-bubble stuff sounds like an EU thing.

[QUOTE=Mider2009;4414426]It’s when you surround yourself with the force....why else do you think they just don’t disarm each other in fights or force choke?[/QUOTE]

PIS was my thought. Or simply 'can counter with force'. Or what MichaelC states, above. I never thought of it as an actual bubble...did someone in the prequels say this? Because maaan, I would remember it in a movie if I saw it; would have given me the giggles. ^_^

[QUOTE=Sharpandpointies;4415218]PIS was my thought. Or simply 'can counter with force'. Or what MichaelC states, above. I never thought of it as an actual bubble...did someone in the prequels say this? Because maaan, I would remember it in a movie if I saw it; would have given me the giggles. ^_^[/QUOTE]

i dont remember any one, jedi or sith, using a "force bubble" in any of the prequels.

but micheal has a good point. the few times force users used the force during a duel was when they are at a distance from each other. the only time i remember it being used up close was during obi-wan and anakin's fight and they pretty much canceled each other out.

Unlike those guys, Smoke can near instantly cast Force without gestures or anything. Just sitting in his chair, smiling and talking, he can spin other Force users around the room and attack their minds.

I still think it's a neck snap sorta fight. Force Bubble sounds like expanded canon or something.

[QUOTE=The Arbiter;4415502]
Force Bubble sounds like expanded canon or something.[/QUOTE]

I think its fan fic to explain something that's never been truly explained (why two force users don't immediately thry and crash the other person with the force).


I can't honestly think of a instance where two powerful experienced force users got dominated by the other using the force.

It seems to be (movie wise and the cartoons I remember) to always be a "GOTCHA" kind of thing that happens mid fight. It is like something has to happen to "distract" one of them and then boom, "force push/grab/lightning" type of situation.

So, head canon wise, I don't see Snoke catching Darth Vader off guard in a arena fight, especially considering it is Snoke's only option.

Plus... does the Arena have a chair? lol

Snoke doesn't need a chair :P

Look, if omni directional force protection techniques are just head canon, then probably Snoke should just break his neck and be done with it.

That sort of thing not happening in films feels more like PIS then anything.

I'm not convinced movie force users are capable of that kind of precision while also focusing on not getting chopped to pieces. These aren't mutant telekinetics, these are people who have mastered a mystic art requiring intense concentration to do the more impressive effects.

[QUOTE=MichaelC;4416067]I'm not convinced movie force users are capable of that kind of precision while also focusing on not getting chopped to pieces. These aren't mutant telekinetics, these are people who have mastered a mystic art requiring intense concentration to do the more impressive effects.[/QUOTE]

It starts at 100 feet. It's not like Vader is inches away swinging his weapon around.

I just assume that such things are easy enough for another force user to counter that they're not really worth bothering with unless one has an overwhelming advantage by way of sheer power. Like if you know that even a marginally weaker force user can turn your force choke into a force neck massage with a little bit of focus, then you're probably still going to try and just stab them with an efficient killing weapon instead of getting into a telekinetically sweaty wrestling match. Snoke may be beyond that; I dunno anything about him.

Dooku didn't seem to have any problems throwing a chokehold on Obi Wan mid-duel.

The more practical reason is probably that they don't want all the flashy superpowers and such to get in the way of the laser-sword fights. Outside of the movies force-users seem a lot less conservative about tossing people around.

[QUOTE=wjowski;4416491]Dooku didn't seem to have any problems throwing a chokehold on Obi Wan mid-duel.

The more practical reason is probably that they don't want all the flashy superpowers and such to get in the way of the laser-sword fights. Outside of the movies force-users seem a lot less conservative about tossing people around.[/QUOTE]

Yup he’s also used lightning during duels

[QUOTE=wjowski;4416491]Dooku didn't seem to have any problems throwing a chokehold on Obi Wan mid-duel. [/QUOTE]

And doesn't that seem fairly significant in terms of what it says about Dooku? I mean he comes off as being like one tick below Yoda. And his fights with Dooku were Obi Wan's worst showings in any of the movies, to the point where they feel like jobbing. Like they were all of 20 seconds into their first fight before Dooku was just burning Obi Wan for fun.

But okay, say that force TK offers absolutely no defense against force TK. Then if you're pausing in battle to choke a guy, what stops him from doing the same thing to you? Now you're in a contest of whose lungs will last the longest, which pretty much gets right back to them probably not doing it because it's a messy and ineffective way to try and fight other force users. Unless you're REALLY good at it, so you can just throw it out there in the middle of a swordfight, and quite a bit stronger than the person you're doing it to, like Dooku against Obi Wan. It even makes sense that Sith would generally be better at it.

Also Dooku had a bit of a "people will stop and let me do whatever force things I want" aura. Like Yoda just kind of sits there and keeps locking blades with him while he blatantly focuses elsewhere to drop a column on Anakin and Obi Wan so he can get away.

Edit: Of course I'm pretty sure we KNOW force TK can stop force TK because IIRC, Anakin and Obi Wan had a whole little force arm wrestle in the middle of their fight. That's probably why Dooku only chokes Obi Wan for like half a second before chucking him off, because it's just a quick move he can slip into the fight, not something where he'd be able to continuously hold the guy.

[QUOTE=BitVyper;4416574]And doesn't that seem fairly significant in terms of what it says about Dooku? I mean he comes off as being like one tick below Yoda. And his fights with Dooku were Obi Wan's worst showings in any of the movies, to the point where they feel like jobbing. Like they were all of 20 seconds into their first fight before Dooku was just burning Obi Wan for fun.

But okay, say that force TK offers absolutely no defense against force TK. Then if you're pausing in battle to choke a guy, what stops him from doing the same thing to you? Now you're in a contest of whose lungs will last the longest, which pretty much gets right back to them probably not doing it because it's a messy and ineffective way to try and fight other force users. Unless you're REALLY good at it, so you can just throw it out there in the middle of a swordfight, and quite a bit stronger than the person you're doing it to, like Dooku against Obi Wan. It even makes sense that Sith would generally be better at it.

Also Dooku had a bit of a "people will stop and let me do whatever force things I want" aura. Like Yoda just kind of sits there and keeps locking blades with him while he blatantly focuses elsewhere to drop a column on Anakin and Obi Wan so he can get away.

Edit: Of course I'm pretty sure we KNOW force TK can stop force TK because IIRC, Anakin and Obi Wan had a whole little force arm wrestle in the middle of their fight. That's probably why Dooku only chokes Obi Wan for like half a second before chucking him off, because it's just a quick move he can slip into the fight, not something where he'd be able to continuously hold the guy.[/QUOTE]

Problems. This isnt sword fight range. It's 100' away in the Arena. Snoke can exert neck breaking energies near instantly with no gestures, motions or effort.

Other Force users seem to need an accompanying action to start forcing stuff around. Even if there is an interaction, Snoke probably wins a very close quick draw at the bell using the 100'.

Yeah I can't speak to what Snoke can even do. I was just responding to the response to my response.

Response.

[QUOTE=BitVyper;4416588]Yeah I can't speak to what Snoke can even do. I was just responding to the response to my response.

Response.[/QUOTE]

The trouble with responding to a response to your response instead of responding to all responses, makes the response seem less responsive.



:P

[QUOTE=The Arbiter;4415860]Snoke doesn't need a chair :P

Look, if omni directional force protection techniques are just head canon, then probably Snoke should just break his neck and be done with it.

That sort of thing not happening in films feels more like PIS then anything.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you can just go "pis" when it is consistent over 9 movies and a long cartoon.

"something" stops insta force destruction between two similarly equal force users. They just never bothered what it was

[QUOTE=wjowski;4416491]Dooku didn't seem to have any problems throwing a chokehold on Obi Wan mid-duel.

[/QUOTE]

mid duel is the key though.

He doesn't start by instantly choking him.

It "seems" you have to catch them off guard in some way. That has been consistent throughout all the movies.

only when there is a massive power advantage does that seem to not be the case.

[QUOTE=MindofShadow;4417821]I don't think you can just go "pis" when it is consistent over 9 movies and a long cartoon.

"something" stops insta force destruction between two similarly equal force users. They just never bothered what it was[/QUOTE]

Flash "consistently" over MANY comic runs forgets how to use his FTL speed properly in a fight.

"Something" stops instant blitz destruction... and that thing is PIS.

Without any canon source that confirms your thinking, it's basically just you filling in the gaps.

Not sure if this helps but here are some other snoke flights

[url]https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?112095-Saruman-vs-Snoke[/url]

[url]https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?105376-Supreme-Leader-Snoke-vs-the-emperor[/url]