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[QUOTE=boots;3959718]in universe: different clone body that isn't subject to the same rules?
irl: his turn to dust in the 90s was editorial BS.[/QUOTE]
Early in the 90s clone saga Gwen Stacy clones were melting and turning into dust left and right. Later it happened to Jackal clones and Spider-Man clones as well. It would have been strange if Ben was the only one who didn't melt and turn to dust. It isn't editorial BS, it's editorial doing their job of keeping things consistent.
[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;3959242]What’s worse is that Spider-Geddon is gonna be the first time Mayday gets to meet her uncle Ben, the man who she honored for years by wearing his costume and he’s gonna be a total psychopath who both her father and uncle Kaine hate. GG Marvel.[/QUOTE]
that actually could have happened in spider-verse.
that's what i would have liked to see more- some relationships amongst the action
[QUOTE=Scarlet-Spider;3959752]Early in the 90s clone saga Gwen Stacy clones were melting and turning into dust left and right. Later it happened to Jackal clones and Spider-Man clones as well. It would have been strange if Ben was the only one who didn't melt and turn to dust. It isn't editorial BS, it's editorial doing their job of keeping things consistent.[/QUOTE]
every clone that degenerated didn't do so after death. they all left [I]corpses[/I]. degeneration was the [I]cause [/I]of death not the [I]result[/I].
the decision to make ben degenerate [I]after [/I]death was simply to prove a plot point, not because it had in-universe consistency.
you can find the writers and editors freely discussing it with a quick google. it's interesting reading.
Well i wasnt happy how slott brought Ben back, but i was happy to see Peter David try to correct the character he was given. But after this last issue, i must say this is the worse pile of garbage i have ever read, and im p*ssed i even wasted my time and money on this series. Id love to just flip the bird to all at marvel, for destroying the character i grew up on, and all glimmers of hope i had, after waiting over 20 years for his return. Im officially done with all marvel until they can get real writers who actually write compelling stories, like all my friends have suggested to me with DC comics.
i thought the art was good *shrugs*
I mean, I understand why most people are upset. I too, grew up with Ben, since I started reading comics in 1991. And even though this Ben feels different from the one we met during the clone saga, I have to say, PAD didn't lost his touch to me. I really liked this run. and the more I think about this ending, the more it grows on me. Same goes for Spider-man 2099 vol 2 and 3. Now, I'm wondering what Ben will do. I sure hope he won't be canon fodder in spider-geddon, because I think there still is a lot of potential for his story.
Anyway, I get the disappointment and I feel for you guys, but I liked it.
[QUOTE=Naked Bat;3960275]I mean, I understand why most people are upset. I too, grew up with Ben, since I started reading comics in 1991. And even though this Ben feels different from the one we met during the clone saga, I have to say, PAD didn't lost his touch to me. I really liked this run. and the more I think about this ending, the more it grows on me. Same goes for Spider-man 2099 vol 2 and 3. Now, I'm wondering what Ben will do. I sure hope he won't be canon fodder in spider-geddon, because I think there still is a lot of potential for his story.
Anyway, I get the disappointment and I feel for you guys, but I liked it.[/QUOTE]
I can't speak for everyone but for me it was the colossal character assassination of Ben Reilly, the disastrous finale, and PAD's incensed attitude of blaming the customers or "trade-waiters". I have found myself dropping certain authors because of their ugly behavior and outright hostile remarks.
[QUOTE=Spiderfang;3960284]I can't speak for everyone but for me it was the colossal character assassination of Ben Reilly, the disastrous finale, and PAD's incensed attitude of blaming the customers or "trade-waiters". I have found myself dropping certain authors because of their ugly behavior and outright hostile remarks.[/QUOTE]
I can understand that. I've read a few things about PAD and even things coming from him that don't sit well with me, but as a writer, I still really much like what he does, more often than not.
I guess that I'm in the minority, but I thought that the issue was fine. I know that a lot of Ben's more hardcore fans are upset at how things ended for Ben, but I thought that the Scarlet Spider series did a good job of showing a guy with good intentions come up short, partly because of forces outside of his control, namely Mephisto. I'd say that Ben tried to do the right thing for others during the comic's run, and was genuinely trying to redeem himself.
And I doubt that David intended for Scarlet Spider to end this way. I remember reading one interview where David stated that after you read a certain issue, there would be no way you would end up liking Kaine more than Ben. Those don't sound like the words of a writer planning character assassination for the title character. As others have pointed out in this or one of the other Scarlet Spider threads, the comic only had sales of around 14 thousand copies each month. My guess is that editorial saw the low sales and had David pull the plug on Ben in a way that made him available to be used as a villain down the road. But who knows.
I have to admit though that I'm not a an expert on how Ben is meant to be written. I didn't grow up reading about Ben as Spider-Man during the 90's. I only read a few issues after the fact. Truthfully, I didn't find him to be all that special. And I didn't read the story with Ben as the Jackal either. Hell, Kaine from the Yost series is who I think of when some one says the name Scarlet Spider. I genuinely didn't care for Ben until this current Scarlet Spider comic. So maybe I'm approaching Ben's character from a different view than most of his hard core fans do, and that's why I liked the ending of this series.
[QUOTE=Naked Bat;3960275]I mean, I understand why most people are upset. I too, grew up with Ben, since I started reading comics in 1991. And even though this Ben feels different from the one we met during the clone saga, I have to say, PAD didn't lost his touch to me. I really liked this run. and the more I think about this ending, the more it grows on me. Same goes for Spider-man 2099 vol 2 and 3. Now, I'm wondering what Ben will do. I sure hope he won't be canon fodder in spider-geddon, because I think there still is a lot of potential for his story.
Anyway, I get the disappointment and I feel for you guys, but I liked it.[/QUOTE]
What brilliant story telling! Peter David clearly hasn't lost his touch! Oh wait...so Ben is dead and inside the paramedics car, when he wakes while the car is at a random spot in the city, he jumps out of the car and up a building and somehow Misty stands on the rooftoop of that exact building without build up or having anything to do with the rest of this arc so she confronts him and he punches a hole through her and notices she isn't a real human after, she is a robot. Amazing story telling! It's like a 5 year old wrote this story. Not to mention Mephisto not being imprisoned anymore without explanation which was completely pointless because it only lasted a few issues or Abigail becoming an angel and being still alive at the same time because of the antidote.
curious. so Ben and Kaine are still alive and active? Anyone else?
sigh..
I guess with Superman, creatively you can instantly put him in any city you want due to super-speed/flight. But with Spider-Man, you don't exactly have that option, so I guess that's part of the hook to having someone fill the desire of "[I]spidey in Vegas[/I]", "[I]Spidey in Houston[/I]", "[I]Spidey in San Fran[/I]", etc.
With Kaine in particular, there's the additional hook of having a "[I]Spider-man who's willing to be lethal[/I]", for the fan contingent who want that in their Spiderman.
I know I'm just done emotionally with the clone world; I can't keep up. Who's good, who's bad, who's "in-between", who's off the grid..
I never thought it was a good idea to have multiple "Peter Parkers" (yes, they've all had different experiences, post "hatching"). This has gotten to [B]Multiple Man [/B]levels of... okay, is there a Peter Clone who's raising a family in rural Nebraska somewhere?
I felt that at least one of them should join the [B]Guardians of the Galaxy[/B]. Get them off Earth, let them have adventures in another context completely. That way you could have "[I]spider-man in space[/I]" which is an angle that has scarcely ever been explored.
If I [B]never [/B]see the Jackal again in stories, that's fine by me.
[QUOTE=Hypestyle;3960464]
With Kaine in particular, there's the additional hook of having a "[I]Spider-man who's willing to be lethal[/I]", for the fan contingent who want that in their Spiderman.
[/QUOTE]
We have 4 of those now Doc Ock, Kaine, Venom and Ben Reilly.
[QUOTE=Scarlet-Spider;3960473]We have 4 of those now Doc Ock, Kaine, Venom and Ben Reilly.[/QUOTE]
so Ben Reilly was willing to kill? whoo-boy... :eek:
[QUOTE=Hypestyle;3960477]so Ben Reilly was willing to kill? whoo-boy... :eek:[/QUOTE]
He has been since clone conspiracy.
Edit: Oh wait Slott retconned it so Ben was already the Jackal during Spider-Island so yeah he was willing to kill since then.
[QUOTE=ArchAngelSliver;3960440]I genuinely didn't care for Ben until this current Scarlet Spider comic. So maybe I'm approaching Ben's character from a different view than most of his hard core fans do, and that's why I liked the ending of this series.[/QUOTE]
So in order to enjoy a comic that outright character assassinates a cult favourite, you have to be a non-fan?
I suggest you go back and read the Epic collections of the Clone Saga and spruse up a bit on how Ben was handled in the past, maybe you'll change your mind and realise why this book's ending fails on so many fundamental levels.