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[QUOTE=Rang10;5399827]How will they collect information if not stealth?[/QUOTE]
There’s no one left to stop them.
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[QUOTE=Wolverine12;5399834]There’s no one left to stop them.[/QUOTE]
The city Exploded and there is new Cotv being prepared
[QUOTE=loke13;5399833]Orchis is a man-made organization made up of a bunch of bigoted humans hell bent on solving the "mutant problem".[/QUOTE]
They were building a murder machine that could be dangerous even to humans. The mission was destroy it
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5399837]The city Exploded and there is new Cotv being prepared[/quote]
Exactly, no one left to stop them. The city can’t just insta cook new CoV, that takes time and thanks to explodey girl now the A.I. is damaged so there is no one left to stop the X-Men from downloading whatever info they want.
[quote]They were building a murder machine that could be dangerous even to humans. The mission was destroy it[/QUOTE]
So was the City. They literally say that they aren’t strong enough yet to take over the world.
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[QUOTE=Wolverine12;5399846]Exactly, no one left to stop them. The city can’t just insta cook new CoV, that takes time and thanks to explodey girl now the A.I. is damaged so there is no one left to stop the X-Men from downloading whatever info they want.
[/quote]
If everything is destroyed there is nothing to collect information
[quote]So was the City. They literally say that they aren’t strong enough yet to take over the world.[/QUOTE]
The kids are programmed, murder them is cruel
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5399855]If everything is destroyed there is nothing to collect information
The kids are programmed, murder them is cruel[/QUOTE]
They're not robots. They can choose not to commit genocide and world domination lol
Secondly the X-men were acting in self defense. It was kill or be killed.
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[QUOTE=loke13;5399879]They're not robots. They can choose not to commit genocide and world domination lol
Secondly the X-men were acting in self defense. It was kill or be killed.[/QUOTE]
Cotv are programmed they can't choose
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5399886]Cotv are programmed they can't choose[/QUOTE]
So you're saying they're basically biological sentinels bent on genocide. Why is it cruel to eliminate them again?
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[QUOTE=Rang10;5399855]If everything is destroyed there is nothing to collect information[/quote]
Not everything is destroyed. There’s gonna be an active terminal somewhere that the team can log into, that’s how these stories usually play out. Or you could be right and the mission is just a complete failure and a colossal waste of time for all parties involved.
[quote]The kids are programmed, murder them is cruel[/QUOTE]
Programmed to kill everyone and everything. Not only was negotiating not an option, the children were going to kill the X-Men. If you want to argue the ethics of the X-Men infiltrating the children’s home that’s one thing but you’re giving the children a free pass from any responsibility for their actions, you should be upset at the city for programming them, not the X-Men for defending themselves.
I get it, you really want the X-Men to be the bad guys. You do you, enjoy the books how you want but I won’t debate in circles like this anymore. I’ve pointed out what I think the flaws in your logic are. If you want to respond with something new and not repeat yourself let’s talk.
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[QUOTE=loke13;5399888]So you're saying they're basically biological sentinels bent on genocide. Why is it cruel to eliminate them again?[/QUOTE]
Because they can't choose. X-men redeem a lot of mass murders, but Cotv are competitors so x-men just kill them? That is wrong
[QUOTE=Wolverine12;5399889]Not everything is destroyed. There’s gonna be an active terminal somewhere that the team can log into, that’s how these stories usually play out. Or you could be right and the mission is just a complete failure and a colossal waste of time for all parties involved.
[/QUOTE]
it is a huge explosion, the city is setient enough to also erase and corrupt any file. This would be too easy if all data is intact
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[QUOTE=Wolverine12;5399824]I don’t understand why the mission had to be stealth at all I guess. They wanted to go in quiet but we knew 13 issues ago that was not going to happen. I don’t see why the next issue can’t be about fact finding either. It’s also a bit unfair to compare this to Carey’s story as his is complete and Hickman’s isn’t.
We know in story that the City, despite its size, is very sparsely populated, Hickman made a point of that. The X-Men are found out immediately and proceeded to take out the CoV easily just like the City predicted based on the CoV current “levels.” Based on Carey’s run the X-Men just took out the main fighting force of the CoV minus a couple. I will admit that it’s been a long time since I read Carey’s run so if there is a major player still unaccounted for that could be an issue later. What is the City supposed to do now that it doesn’t have any defense mechanisms? What’s left to stop the X-Men from getting the information they came for? I’m sure it won’t be a cake walk moving forward but I doubt they come up empty handed, even if they do we don’t know if that’s part of the larger picture.
I’ll be honest I was expecting some recon work to be done this issue also but it didn’t happen. That doesn’t mean I think the issue is bad it just wasn’t exactly what I expected which can be either good, bad or neutral. I’m not trying to argue that the team shouldn’t have tried to be stealthy but I would argue that to expect that scenario after the end of issue 5 seems to me a bit unrealistic. I felt like we knew right away that team was walking into a fight for their lives.[/QUOTE]
You'd think a city as "sparsely populated" as they state would have had plenty of places to hide and, you know, not be seen. Think of how much time it can take a concerted manhunt IRL to find a fugitive. And that's with multiple agencies and millions of eyes.
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[QUOTE=nandes;5399565]They should've tried to reason with the Mother Mold first, see![/QUOTE]
Lol, yeah I know right!
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Almost every superhero fight is someone trying to kill the hero, so 'they're trying to kill them!' feels like a hollow excuse to murder them all. And there are plenty of mutants with teleportation and phasing powers, so limiting your options to sending a team through the front door is poor planning from the start.
Comparing this to the Mother Mold is kind of an apples to oranges thing. One is a superweapon, where the location itself IS the weapon. Its a Death Star type of situation where the scale and size of the weapon means you can't go the small route, at least not at short notice. Here its kind of a confusing mess. Like, if the CotV are really that big of a threat, why not just assault the city outright? Don't tell me they don't have the firepower to just lay waste to it. And this was not a team of spies they sent it.
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Anyone that thought the COTV weren't going to get wiped off the map or is eben a little bit surprised because of it hasn't really been paying attention to Hickman's run.
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[QUOTE=pkingdom;5399961]Almost every superhero fight is someone trying to kill the hero, so 'they're trying to kill them!' feels like a hollow excuse to murder them all. And there are plenty of mutants with teleportation and phasing powers, so limiting your options to sending a team through the front door is poor planning from the start.
Comparing this to the Mother Mold is kind of an apples to oranges thing. One is a superweapon, where the location itself IS the weapon. Its a Death Star type of situation where the scale and size of the weapon means you can't go the small route, at least not at short notice. Here its kind of a confusing mess. Like, if the CotV are really that big of a threat, why not just assault the city outright? Don't tell me they don't have the firepower to just lay waste to it. And this was not a team of spies they sent it.[/QUOTE]
let's kill people before they commit crimes.
If the mission ws to kill and not stealth, the should had choose much more brute force to destroy all city.
If they can be taken down so easily, they aren't a threat
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CotV are like the clones executing Order 66 except instead of having a chip inserted in their brain (that can be removed), they have been engineered into organic nimrods with their core mission to eradicate both mutants and humans.