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[QUOTE=SteveGus;3838504]They don't need 'fixing', but they want a bit of complexity. They should not be an absolute monarchy; the ancient societies on which they were modeled were more politically interesting than that. There should be factions, a council of some sort, internal politics there. Perez showed us glimpses of that; it should be fleshed out.
Amazons should be like Kryptonians and Daxamites, a race of super-humans. Wonder Woman should be first among equals, not towering over the rest of them by special divine favor. Still, the notion that any woman can become an Amazon by training and application also should be there.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=OBrianTallent;3838432]World building and fleshing out is really the current answer. I mean, we've been shown there are (at one point in the New 52) Amazons all over the world (by way of Demon Knights and Odyssey of the Amazons)...so is that still somewhat canon or are we back to the only Amazon having left the island is Diana? Then there's the Bana...what's their history? I am hoping that part of Orlando's story will reset the Amazons of Themyscira back into the "real" world and that Wilson will follow up with that as well. Diana doesn't need to be in the same line as Superman and Batman...having no family to visit. It's one of the things that always set her in nice contrast to both of her contemporaries, having a full family behind her, not just the ones she found after the fact.[/QUOTE]
I agree with both of these suggestions!
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Since it is currently canon in the DC Universe that the amazons are stuck in the stone age. The fastest way to update them is for the Olympians to return and give up their corporeal bodies, and transfer all their powers to the amazons. Let Olympus ruled by Themis and other Titans rule in their absence for now. Hence, every amazon will have a basic power set, a few specialize in each dog, which will be the priestesses, and the head priestess will be Hippolyta, Antiope (to return), and Donna Troy; kind of a warrior sorceress. This way they can still keep their way of life, and still be powerful.
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I'd probably do a title focused solely on the Amazons, their day to day lives and them trying to figure out their next step after Diana goes to Man's world. In the pre52 Amazons inspired a whole subculture and women's shelters etc so that be interesting to dig into.
A larger problem is that most writers struggle with the amazons being utopic. Especially contemporary writers who are more driven by flawed characters and broken systems. So a way around that is to the amazon society has potential that individual amazons have a hard time living up to.
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[QUOTE=the illustrious mr. kenway;3849896]I'd probably do a title focused solely on the Amazons, their day to day lives and them trying to figure out their next step after Diana goes to Man's world. In the pre52 Amazons inspired a whole subculture and women's shelters etc so that be interesting to dig into.[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/03/08/dc-launches-new-publishing-imprint-dc-black-label"]Wonder Woman Historia[/URL] by Kelly Sue DeConnick and Phil Jimenez is apparently under development, though I have no idea when it is due.
[QUOTE=the illustrious mr. kenway;3849896]A larger problem is that most writers struggle with the amazons being utopic. Especially contemporary writers who are more driven by flawed characters and broken systems. So a way around that is to the amazon society has potential that individual amazons have a hard time living up to.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure the writers have trouble with utopian societies, especially since there is plenty of high drama and trouble outside the Amazon community. I think it's more likely that they have a hard time handling a society made up of women without falling into some form of Madonna-Whore complex, where the Amazons and their society must either be practically flawless, or they must be exposed as man-hating bullies.
However, writers like De Liz and Simone have managed to explore an utopic Amazon society that still has issues it has trouble dealing with.
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[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;3831381]Go back to Marston's version of Amazon and Hippolyta, a society with advanced Magic and technology. It is sad when Wakanda and Atlantis have all this while Themyscira is still living stone age. ( I am talking about the movie of course)
Hippolyta having an affair with Zeus have to be noncanon. Diana's clay origin celebrating motherhood have to brought back instead of generic Zeus bastard child.[/QUOTE]Agree.
[QUOTE=Geraldofrivia;3831616]Nope, The Amazons either make babies from Clay or adopt orphaned children. What if they give birth to Boy child?[/QUOTE]If you return advanced technology to their culture, it becomes possible for them to have developed technological means of fertilizing women with the genetic material of other women. No chance of boy babies that way; and harvesting sailors becomes something awkward from their past, which they have outgrown.
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[QUOTE=DrNewGod;3854413]Agree.
If you return advanced technology to their culture, it becomes possible for them to have developed technological means of fertilizing women with the genetic material of other women. No chance of boy babies that way; and harvesting sailors becomes something awkward from their past, which they have outgrown.[/QUOTE]
Just say "NO!" to the sex pirates all together. Even as part of their distant past.
As for having babies; I'd be good with a mix of clay babies and adopting girls. Though, down the line at some point, I wouldn't mind seeing a storyline where one Amazon wanted a son instead of a daughter. And I would go by pre-New52 rules where some men would be given special permission to be on Themyscira (like Batman and Superman were).
No, I don't want another Jason retread, as that got bad even for me. But a more lighthearted story of the Amazons raising a boy amongst an island full of women and girls.
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I wouldn't mind if an amazon uprising happening. That the Banas did a civil war. That instead of leaving, they went to Paradise Island. I wonder did the Banas just have one night stands? I mean they are the more aggression Amazons. Would it fit them to kill the men?
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[QUOTE=Jackalope89;3854828]Just say "NO!" to the sex pirates all together. Even as part of their distant past.[/QUOTE]Deleted: my facts weren't facts.
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[QUOTE=DrNewGod;3855394]It's part of the Amazons' mythological source heritage (okay, not piracy, but keeping men as an oppressed class). While I don't endorse it, I can live with the idea as a step along the way to building their utopian society. You can't expect such a society to simply have sprung from the ground wholly formed.[/QUOTE]
I'm not familiar with any myth that says they kept men as an oppressed class.
That they got together annually with the Gargareans from over the mountains for children? Or that they sometimes killed male children (but otherwise handed them over to the Gargareans)? Heard that, but the myths I'm familiar with don't mention subservient men.
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[QUOTE=DrNewGod;3855394]It's part of the Amazons' mythological source heritage (okay, not piracy, but keeping men as an oppressed class). While I don't endorse it, I can live with the idea as a step along the way to building their utopian society. You can't expect such a society to simply have sprung from the ground wholly formed.[/QUOTE]
As Gaelforce, I also question the assertion about the historical Amazons keeping men as an oppressed class, especially in earlier (and historically stronger) sources like Herodotus. Also keep in mind that most of ancient Greece was extremely patriarchal, thus they would likely view any society where women could hold position of power and authority as suspect. And what Marston did with his Amazons was taking the mythological Amazons, removing the Greek patriarchal blinders, and put in his own rosy-tinted glasses of female superiority.
And different writers have looked at the Wonder Woman's pre-Themyscira Amazonian society, like Perez or Morrison. And what they put in is the [I]Amazons being enslaved by men[/I] (something which also Herodotus describes) but freeing themselves and building their own society afterwards. Marston's addition there was one or more Olympian gods helping them but also shielding them from Man's World.
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[QUOTE=Gaelforce;3855475]I'm not familiar with any myth that says they kept men as an oppressed class.
That they got together annually with the Gargareans from over the mountains for children? Or that they sometimes killed male children (but otherwise handed them over to the Gargareans)? Heard that, but the myths I'm familiar with don't mention subservient men.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kjn;3855519]As Gaelforce, I also question the assertion about the historical Amazons keeping men as an oppressed class, especially in earlier (and historically stronger) sources like Herodotus. Also keep in mind that most of ancient Greece was extremely patriarchal, thus they would likely view any society where women could hold position of power and authority as suspect. And what Marston did with his Amazons was taking the mythological Amazons, removing the Greek patriarchal blinders, and put in his own rosy-tinted glasses of female superiority.
And different writers have looked at the Wonder Woman's pre-Themyscira Amazonian society, like Perez or Morrison. And what they put in is the [I]Amazons being enslaved by men[/I] (something which also Herodotus describes) but freeing themselves and building their own society afterwards. Marston's addition there was one or more Olympian gods helping them but also shielding them from Man's World.[/QUOTE]
That's what I get for working off what I remember, rather than double-checking. I recall it from a gradeschool book of myths chapter on Herakles, but don't see it in more established histories. Edits made, and thanks for correcting me.
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I'd make Hippolyta and Phillipus a couple as Simone wanted.
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[QUOTE=DrNewGod;3855394]Deleted: my facts weren't facts.[/QUOTE]
You were right actually, according to Xenophon's and Hippocrates' accounts, the Amazons dislocated the joints of their male offspring to render them lame and useless for War, and so they couldn't rebel against the Women. The males were consigned to slavery and the drudgery of domestic work
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Since they ad shades off real women there are other things that aren’t true. Now many of the women were bowleg due to ridding horses. The amazons society did nothing to the men. So why can’t we have it that many people believes be Greeks and not the actually history of the amazons
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[QUOTE=VonHammersmark;3855851]You were right actually, according to Xenophon's and Hippocrates' accounts, the Amazons dislocated the joints of their male offspring to render them lame and useless for War, and so they couldn't rebel against the Women. The males were consigned to slavery and the drudgery of domestic work[/QUOTE]
Ah! And Xenophon and Hippocrates are much older sources than Strabo, too (wouldn't surprise me if Strabo got the thing about the right breast from Hippocrates). Though outside of possibly [I]Anabasis[/I], I'd argue Herodotus is the more reliable source.
In any case, I view the way that the Amazons have been depicted as having been remarkably consistent from Marston on forward, with the exception of Azzarello (and possibly Morrison): a long-lasting hidden utopian society of women of more than human capabilties and close relations with the Greek gods.
(Now, if DC really want to do a real epic of Amazon society in classical times, then there is arguably no better story than [I]Anabasis[/I].)