[QUOTE=Kevinroc;5970273]I'm also sorry you see things this way.[/QUOTE]
I see it that way because the response from the medium to society has conditioned me to see it that way.
These people aren't interested in representation, they only want money from those in need of validation. They are not on your side.
[QUOTE=Matt Rat;5970277]I see it that way because the response from the medium to society has conditioned me to see it that way.
These people aren't interested in representation, they only want money from those in need of validation. They are not on your side.[/QUOTE]
I agree that corporations are not our friends, and corporations like Disney are absolutely full of it.
I also think there is power in stories. In having a character, in having a hero, standing up. So that first time Miles Morales stood up and declared that he is Spider-Man. There is power in that scene.
[QUOTE=Kevinroc;5970283]I also think there is power in stories. In having a character, in having a hero, standing up. So that first time Miles Morales stood up and declared that he is Spider-Man. There is power in that scene.[/QUOTE]
That was earned and valid, I agree, and it came after substantial build-up.
[QUOTE=Matt Rat;5970290]That was earned and valid, I agree, and it came after substantial build-up.[/QUOTE]
I think a scene with an LGBTQ Spider-Hero standing up could also be powerful. "Spider" is one of the biggest names in Marvel, one of the biggest names in super heroes. With all the anti-LGBTQ sentiment around in the real world, I think it could be at least a little hopeful for some people to see themselves in the Spider-Verse.
[QUOTE=Kevinroc;5970298]I think a scene with an LGBTQ Spider-Hero standing up could also be powerful. "Spider" is one of the biggest names in Marvel, one of the biggest names in super heroes. With all the anti-LGBTQ sentiment around in the real world, I think it could be at least a little hopeful for some people to see themselves in the Spider-Verse.[/QUOTE]
People can 'see' themselves just fine without having a character 'come out'. The best superhero comics don't have to speak exclusively for a specific type of gender or sexuality. Miles declaring himself Spider-Man has nothing to do with his race. It is a moment of personal triumph for himself. The same as any black writer or artist saw themselves through Peter reaching those kind of moments himself in the established classics.
[QUOTE=Matt Rat;5970304]People can 'see' themselves just fine without having a character 'come out'. The best superhero comics don't have to speak exclusively for a specific type of gender or sexuality. Miles declaring himself Spider-Man has nothing to do with his race. It is a moment of personal triumph for himself. The same as any black writer or artist saw themselves through Peter reaching those kind of moments himself in the established classics.[/QUOTE]
And yet moments like Miles declaring he is Spider-Man were why the character was created in the first place. These stories, these moments, have power.
[QUOTE=Kevinroc;5970332]And yet moments like Miles declaring he is Spider-Man were why the character was created in the first place. These stories, these moments, have power.[/QUOTE]
I look at it as a [I]universal[/I] power, something anyone, white, black, latino, mixed etc, can understand, not a specific thing linked to race. It doesn't matter if the intent was to say something more than what it was, everyone 'gets it', and that's why it works, that's why it isn't 'forced inclusion'. The character didn't speak for his race, he spoke for himself.
[QUOTE=Matt Rat;5970335]I look at it as a [I]universal[/I] power, something anyone, white, black, latino, mixed etc, can understand, not a specific thing linked to race. It doesn't matter if the intent was to say something more than what it was, everyone 'gets it', and that's why it works, that's why it isn't 'forced inclusion'. The character didn't speak for his race, he spoke for himself.[/QUOTE]
Why do you think Miles Morales was created in the first place?
[QUOTE=Kevinroc;5970338]Why do you think Miles Morales was created in the first place?[/QUOTE]
I know why he was created, my point is the 'why' didn't matter.
[QUOTE=Matt Rat;5970343]I know why he was created, my point is the 'why' didn't matter.[/QUOTE]
It does matter.
[QUOTE=Kevinroc;5970352]It does matter.[/QUOTE]
In the context of the story it didn't.
Same with what motivates Miles in [I]Into The Spider-Verse[/I]. Mary Jane decrees [I]anyone[/I] can be Spider-Man, and he feels he can be too. We all, from every creed, colour, and sexuality, who all have secrets and burdens, responsibilities etc, we want to be Spider-Man. It's a universal want/pledge and has nothing to do with race.
I'm not debating this any further, let's just agree to disagree.
[QUOTE=Kevinroc;5970298]I think a scene with an LGBTQ Spider-Hero standing up could also be powerful. "Spider" is one of the biggest names in Marvel, one of the biggest names in super heroes. With all the anti-LGBTQ sentiment around in the real world, I think it could be at least a little hopeful for some people to see themselves in the Spider-Verse.[/QUOTE]
I have to agree with this. There's power in representation. For any talk about how outsized the representation is based on percentage of population I would also point to the outsized injustices and hatred that these communities still face to this day. I believe that warrants and in fact demands and outsized positive response in representation.
Even something as small as seeing Ms Marvel correct the pronunciation of her name is going to be huge for young brown girls. Even adults. I worked with an amazing Indian woman and she tried to stand up for herself with everyone said her name wrong and our HR team basically told her to get over it. She's left the company.
Look at the horrors facing trans communities, I don't care what percentage of the population they make up. No one should have their existence threatened.
It's an unfortunate consequence of our failures as a society that these moments that can truly make an impact and change positions are under the stewardship of ugly dispiccable corporations but it is what it is. I can stomach Disney making a buck selling a pride Mickey if some little kid can feel a little safer and deserving to exist in this **** show world.
Representation matters. To us cynical and bitter and ruined adults it's not going to have the same impact. But for kids who are more innocent and haven't seen behind the curtain as much as we have it can certainly make a positive impact. And even on adults my mom used to complain about gay people kissing on TV but due to the saturation she's now against all the anti-lgbt crap going on.
No one is arguing against rep, we're saying they shouldn't crowd 616 w/ more Spiders and instead have someone come out or do a Spider hunt to clean things up.
Also as someone who does get his name constantly mispronounced I feel terrible for that lady, but Ms Marvel seems to be toning down that aspect and instead going w/ the "Avengers nerd" route which not only makes less sense but also has far less impact.Not to mention the mis-accurate representation of the praying scene being called out online and the power change which is being theorized to not confuse w/ Reed while also drastically altering the bracelets from the comics.
Could do 2 birds with one stone and make Peter Parker and Johnny Storm a couple.
[QUOTE=CrimsonEchidna;5971615]Could do 2 birds with one stone and make Peter Parker and Johnny Storm a couple.[/QUOTE]
No, it's refreshing that this franchise doesn't concern itself with those kind of things when every other hero is victim to it. Heterosexuality still has a place in society.