POLL: Should there be a total ban on OMD discussions on CBR

[QUOTE=boots;4567677]ok, i see that. no, i'm not hiding my desires for fear of repercussion. i want to go where the writer wants to take me. if i don't like his/her rollercoaster ride, then i'll get off.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Celgress;4567680]This is how I approach stories as well.

Edit - No need to make myself miserable over something I can't control especially fiction.[/QUOTE]

I think this is the start of a beautiful friendship.
I saw that quote earlier: I thought it fit lol
You too, Jack. If you would like.

[QUOTE=WebSlingWonder;4567688]I think this is the start of a beautiful friendship.
I saw that quote earlier: I thought it fit lol
You too, Jack. If you would like.[/QUOTE]

face it tiger, you just hit the [I]jack[/I]-pot

[QUOTE=H-E-D;4567345]You really out here trying to say that "magical divorce" is as bad as "Neo-Nazi"?[/QUOTE]

I didn’t say that so no.

omd is an unresolved story. the hero continues to be pwned by a villain. mephisto said part of peter’s soul will scream in agony for eternity. he will always be haunted by the feeling something is missing.

in omd evil conquered good. evil continues to win. that’s why people talk about the story still.

and if hydra-cap had been left unresolved, people would talk about it ten years later too for the same reasons. evil conquered good. evil continued to win.

and to answer the original question, what do I want next for peter and mj? gain knowledge of their history and confront mephisto and win.

not a defense of OMD but reading about good guys always winning got tiresome (for me) after a point

sometimes the morally virtuous get outplayed.

OMD ruined my marriage to the green m&m plushie, everything fell apart because i started to be afraid that a satanic figure (dad) would take her away from me, and i ironically ended up ruining everything myself

[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4567292]I generally do think we should accept that creators, even talented ones, are capable of mistakes and can be taken down pegs, two or three. That's how criticism and discussions have been about comics since the start, and I have been far more polite than a lot of the letters printed in the backpages of old issues of ASM.[/QUOTE]

Hopefully by "taken down a peg" you mean general criticism and not sustained pointed diatribe/barrage just because you didn't like a thing

Don't make me add you to a FBI watchlist mister

[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4566714]Even Mark Waid is regretful and bothered around the collar when he discussed OMD briefly in this podcast near the end around the end of Slott's run. ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uvvdv8AZPk[/url]).[/QUOTE]

Also, this is a lie. Anyone can listen to this podcast and see that this is a lie.

Why are we allowed to lie about comic creators on this forum? Is it okay to lie about comic creators if they're a "worthy and deserving target" who need to be "taken down a peg"?

[QUOTE=Zeitgeist;4567889]Hopefully by "taken down a peg" you mean general criticism and not sustained pointed diatribe/barrage just because you didn't like a thing[/quote]

Here's the dictionary meaning of the phrase "take down a peg"

[url]https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/342950.html[/url]
[url]https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+down+a+peg#targetText=take%20someone%20down%20a%20peg%20(or%20two)&targetText=Fig.%20to%20reprimand%20someone%20who,down%20a%20peg%20or%20two[/url].
[url]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/take/knock/bring%20someone%20down%20a%20peg[/url]
[url]https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/take-down-a-peg[/url]
[url]https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/take-bring-someone-down-a-peg-or-two[/url]

Multiple sites to show what the general meaning is. It's an essentially harmless phrase.

To take someone down a peg means to poke holes in the opinion they have of themselves. In this case, it's making light of the self-important halo that comes with being an "artist".

The fact is that creators across history have been human. Great creators. They have lied, stolen, cheated and so on. Some of them have killed (Caravaggio look it up). In the case of Spider-Man and OMD, Quesada and others outright lied about a lot of stuff about the marriage and other details after that, so that might fit with my overall irreverent view.

[QUOTE=Lee;4567943]...[/QUOTE]

The timestamp is 34:30 for those who want to fact-check this ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uvvdv8AZPk[/url]).

Here's the transcript (lightly edited):

"Whenever I talk about Spider-Man...whenever I talk about the history of Spider-Man...obviously the big elephant in the room is the question of whether Peter should be married to Mary Jane. And as much I want to say from my point of view they shouldn't be married. I understand that for 20 years there were lot of people for whom that was their Peter Parker. it would be hypocritical of me not to acknowledge that they have every right to want that...I get that. Its hard to (sigh) I know we are way off on a tangent. My personal philosophy, this is not an edict, my personal take is that these characters are around before I was born. There's a reason that these characters lasted. So you want to return as much as you can to ground to the aspects that made these characters. Anyone who tells you what makes a character last is an idiot. You never know what you can or cannot change and it still be the same character. So my personal philosophy is not to make an irreversible change. Now I don't want people who like Mary Jane Parker to come after me with torches and pitchforks, but I get why they like that wrinkle and I feel sad for them that that is no longer part of the Spider-Man continuity."

Mark Waid in that podcast discussing ASM Annual #5 unprompted brings up OMD and calls it the elephant in the room, and he talks about how much he understands where fans who like the marriage are coming from and why he feels bad that what they like isn't part of the continuity anymore. Based on that I made an interpretation that said that Mark Waid sounds regretful. It was a valid interpretation. At least given the tone of the voice, the content of what he said, and the context (Waid brings up the issue of marriage on his own in a podcast that wasn't discussing it). Mr. Waid certainly was far more empathetic in that podcast then he was when BND came out.

So I did not lie.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]87090[/ATTACH]

[QUOTE=Lee;4567943]Also...[/QUOTE]

I must ask at this point, if you like Spider-Man. If you are capable of kindness and politeness. For someone so bothered by other people mocking public figures (which is after all a virtue of civil society), I have never once seen you post anything without attacking other posters, insulting people, and so on. You never seem to say if you like the latest issue or not, never talk about what your favorite comics are. You also seem to show up, unprompted, whenever I seem to post or something. Which by the way, is far closer to harassment than any of the pretend ought-to-be-a-law-against-that examples I see trotted out here.

So let's try this again one last time...Where do you want the Peter and MJ relationship to go next? What is your view of Spider-Man's end-game if you have any? Do you think OMD should be addressed/reversed some day or not? Do you like Nick Spencer's run and his writing?

[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4567960]The timestamp is 34:30 for those who want to fact-check this ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uvvdv8AZPk[/url]).

Here's the transcript (lightly edited):

"Whenever I talk about Spider-Man...whenever I talk about the history of Spider-Man...obviously the big elephant in the room is the question of whether Peter should be married to Mary Jane. And as much I want to say from my point of view they shouldn't be married. I understand that for 20 years there were lot of people for whom that was their Peter Parker. it would be hypocritical of me not to acknowledge that they have every right to want that...I get that. Its hard to (sigh) I know we are way off on a tangent. My personal philosophy, this is not an edict, my personal take is that these characters are around before I was born. There's a reason that these characters lasted. So you want to return as much as you can to ground to the aspects that made these characters. Anyone who tells you what makes a character last is an idiot. You never know what you can or cannot change and it still be the same character. So my personal philosophy is not to make an irreversible change. Now I don't want people who like Mary Jane Parker to come after me with torches and pitchforks, but I get why they like that wrinkle and I feel sad for them that that is no longer part of the Spider-Man continuity."[/quote]

"Lightly edited" - by changing words entirely.

I encourage people to listen to the audio instead.

[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4567960]Mark Waid in that podcast discussing ASM Annual #5 unprompted brings up OMD and calls it the elephant in the room, and he talks about how much he understands where fans who like the marriage are coming from and why he feels bad that what they like isn't part of the continuity anymore. Based on that I made an interpretation that said that Mark Waid sounds regretful. It was a valid interpretation.[/quote]

Bullshit. He never got "bothered around the collar", he never expressed regret - he said understands why some fans would be upset about it. That's not expressing regret, that's not getting bothered around the collar.

You didn't use the qualifier that he "sounds" regretful. You said he "is" regretful.

[QUOTE=Lee;4568003]You didn't use the qualifier that he "sounds" regretful.[/QUOTE]

Fair point.

I'm ashamed of my role is escalating this matter. :(

OMD desperately needs its own all-purpose topic sticky thread so people who want to can avoid it.

[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4567947]
To take someone down a peg means to poke holes in the opinion they have of themselves. In this case, [U]it's making light of the self-important halo that comes with being an "artist"[/U]. [/QUOTE]

I do appreciate the five different definitions but I am very familiar with the phrase Jake; I just felt the need to question your use of the term as I felt it signified an almost resentful perspective, which is out in full force here because [B]WEW[/B] that underlined section.
I feel there's an element of projection here - I trust I don't need to supply five links at you to explain what that means; I'd say maybe either past experiences or perceived grievances with a creator or creators has seemed to colour your disposition towards them as a whole. I hope you can understand there's an element of aggressiveness in there which I don't think is ultimately fair to paint anyone in the position of a creator or artist. Many are actually quite humble and don't need to be "taken down a peg" if their work doesn't meet a specific standard, hell, most artists I know are the most self-critical people about.

[QUOTE=boots;4567786]not a defense of OMD but reading about good guys always winning got tiresome (for me) after a point

sometimes the morally virtuous get outplayed.[/QUOTE]

sounds like you are bored with the genre of mainstream american superhero comics and should move on as a reader.

[QUOTE=boots;4567351]the topic could be “tentacles for days: otto and may’s home video” and OMD would still come up[/QUOTE]

then the people complaining would have a point.

complaining omd is being discussed in a thread about the future of peter and mj is pretty myopic.

[QUOTE=Celgress;4568098]I'm ashamed of my role is escalating this matter. :(

OMD desperately needs its own all-purpose topic sticky thread so people who want to can avoid it.[/QUOTE]

I second this.