Alan Scott in the Green Lantern 80th Anniversary *spoilers*

[QUOTE=Myskin;5030996]What really bugs me is Obsidian.
E2 Alan Scott was created as a homosexual character because Obsidian could not be part of earth-2.

Now that regular Alan Scott is homosexual and Obsidian could reappear in continuity again, will they make him homosexual again? Wouldn't it be a cue for those bizarrely homophobic arguments like 'gay parents make their children become gay as well'?[/QUOTE]

I don't think creators should be making creative decisions based upon what homophobic bigots might argue. ;)

There are plenty of gay men who have biological children that are also gay.

[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;5032112]I don't think creators should be making creative decisions based upon what homophobic bigots might argue. ;)

There are plenty of gay men who have biological children that are also gay.[/QUOTE]

I don't know, it seems like an unnecessary complication in the ability to bring back a fairly popular character in Jade and her brother Obsidian, all in the cause of a reboot of a character that only lasted for 5 years (and wasn't that popular). Giving it preference/precedence over a version of the character that existed since the Golden Age and has been more commercially popular. The few articles/news clips didn't make Earth 2 even a shadow of the popularity of the John's JSA or Thomas' All Star Squadron/Infinity Inc iteration. If DC preferred the New 52 version of Alan they would have stuck with Earth 2, they are bringing back the JSA. I want classic Alan and I want Jade and Infinity Inc back as well. I have no problem with Obsidian's sexuality, because it was never really established, don't really mind Earth-2's Alan's sexuality because it is an alternative universe with an alternative take, however the Alan conversion (real JSA version) I do NOT like because it changes long established history.

I’m not familiar with this Green Lantern so this has no impact for me. I’d me more impressed if it had been the main Green Lantern or Flash or something. That’s the type of move DC needs to make. I guess this is a baby step though.

[QUOTE=Stick Figure;5032691]I’m not familiar with this Green Lantern so this has no impact for me. I’d me more impressed if it had been the main Green Lantern or Flash or something. That’s the type of move DC needs to make. I guess this is a baby step though.[/QUOTE]

Both the main Green Lanterns and Flashes have pre established relationships with women that have definitive backstories and connections to these characters. If DC had made Hal or Barry gay, that would be the dumbest move imaginable. At least Alan doesn't have many interactions with his wife.

[QUOTE=EmeraldGladiator;5032528]I don't know, it seems like an unnecessary complication in the ability to bring back a fairly popular character in Jade and her brother Obsidian, all in the cause of a reboot of a character that only lasted for 5 years (and wasn't that popular).[/QUOTE]

Unnecessarily complicated has been DC's guiding principle for decades now ;)

Remember when Pre-Crisis Black Canary's origin was that she thought she was her mother because she was stuck in another dimension, then replaced her mother when she moved from Earth-2 to Earth-1 so she could hook up with Green Arrow? Remember the contortions they went through to explain Superboy & the Legion, Supergirl/Matrix and Kandor Post-Crisis? Remember Troia and Hawkworld? Remember when Leslie Thompkins killed Robin to teach Batman a lesson, but, no wait, she didn't do that she only faked it to trick Batman even though he wasn't fooled anyway?

Compared to all that nonsense, having a closeted gay man from the 1940s have an openly gay son in the present doesn't seem too complicated to me, particularly since you can find examples of that exact thing in the real world.

[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;5033118]
Remember when Pre-Crisis Black Canary's origin was that she thought she was her mother because she was stuck in another dimension, then replaced her mother when she moved from Earth-2 to Earth-1 so she could hook up with Green Arrow? Remember the contortions they went through to explain Superboy & the Legion, Supergirl/Matrix and Kandor Post-Crisis? Remember Troia and Hawkworld? Remember when Leslie Thompkins killed Robin to teach Batman a lesson, but, no wait, she didn't do that she only faked it to trick Batman even though he wasn't fooled anyway?[/QUOTE]

Pepperidge Farm remembers.....

[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;5033118] Unnecessarily complicated has been DC's guiding principle for decades now ;) [/QUOTE]

Oh, it's comics in general. It would take three pages of confusing alternate continuity nonsense to describe the histories of Cable or Psylocke or Jean Grey, over in the Marvel-verse. :)

And yeah, nothing particularly complicated about two gay guys in the same family, just as it's not particularly complicated or confusing for their to be two *straight* guys in the same family.

[QUOTE=Lvenger;5032856]Both the main Green Lanterns and Flashes have pre established relationships with women that have definitive backstories and connections to these characters.[/QUOTE]

So does Alan Scott.

[QUOTE=EmeraldGladiator;5032528]I don't know, it seems like an unnecessary complication in the ability to bring back a fairly popular character in Jade and her brother Obsidian[/QUOTE]

I feel like having to say "Allan was closeted when he had kids" doesn't really complicate matters all that much.

There's also such a thing as good complications. The kind that real people have experienced and dealt with, or watched someone close to them go through.

[QUOTE]all in the cause of a reboot of a character that only lasted for 5 years (and wasn't that popular). Giving it preference/precedence over a version of the character that existed since the Golden Age and has been more commercially popular. [/QUOTE]

Eh, that's just spinning statistics. You're not wrong, of course. But we could take the data and look at a different subset; maybe measure how large a percentage both New52 Allan and classic Allan spent not appearing on a regular basis at all, in which case New52 Allan looks much better. As I recall the first couple years of Earth-2 sold pretty solidly so 52Allan might have a higher percentage of time spent in a high selling title too (I'd have to actually look at numbers but this is just an example). Or we could look at volume of time in print, in which case classic Allan looks better. It's just data, you can do a lot of stuff with data. Point is, for a character like Allan who isn't really that big a deal....the data is even more meaningless.

[QUOTE]don't really mind Earth-2's Alan's sexuality because it is an alternative universe with an alternative take, however the Alan conversion (real JSA version) I do NOT like because it changes long established history.[/QUOTE]

Nothing but respect for that (I never thought you were coming at this from a homophobic perspective). I normally feel the same way, I just figure Allan specifically has the wiggle room to add this in without screwing stuff up. But let me ask you; what makes you think this is classic pre-Crisis/clutter earth Allan? Despite a ton of similarities and shared history this is not pre-52 DC. This is the world where Clark had a kid less than halfway through his career and Wally West has a cousin with the same name. This *is* a new continuity....it looks a lot like the old continuity but this is not, in fact, it. Allan being gay is just one more small change, and in the grand scheme of things is a smaller change than Clark having a kid

The only reason why James Robinson made Alan Scott gay in the first place was becasue DC at the time was writing Scott's son Obsidion out of continuity.

Also take into account that the post Flashpoint Earth 2 were meant to be alternative takes on the original Golden Age Heroes

I don't really like that they made Alan Scott gay. The post-Flaspoint Alan Scott from James Robinson wasn't really the original so him being gay was fine, he was a new character with a new identity. The original Alan Scott, on the other hand, has decades of history behind him that define who he is. To retcon all of that does an injustice to the character and to the gay community. I am all for gay characters but the sexuality (or gender and race) bending of existing characters, instead of creating new characters to fit those roles, essentially says DC (or Marvel or whoever) is unable or is unwilling to create new characters to fill those roles.

Create an interesting, original minority character with a quality creative team and the rest can take care of itself.

[QUOTE=mmurphy1968;5034352]I don't really like that they made Alan Scott gay. The post-Flaspoint Alan Scott from James Robinson wasn't really the original so him being gay was fine, he was a new character with a new identity. The original Alan Scott, on the other hand, has decades of history behind him that define who he is. To retcon all of that does an injustice to the character and to the gay community. I am all for gay characters but the sexuality (or gender and race) bending of existing characters, instead of creating new characters to fit those roles, essentially says DC (or Marvel or whoever) is unable or is unwilling to create new characters to fill those roles.

Create an interesting, original minority character with a quality creative team and the rest can take care of itself.[/QUOTE]

The injustice was that DC (and everyone else) was unwilling to create gay heroic characters [I]at the time[/I] or to even show other segments of our society unless it was in a mocking, insulting or outright demonizing light.

I'm not sure what turning Alan gay accomplishes that couldn't be done better by going bigger. If DC wanted to turn an established character gay who never was before, sure they can do it---and I won't rehash why, since that's been amply commented on by others here and I couldn't do better, but IMO it's go big or go home. After all, the JSA people while well liked in comic fandom are basically unknown outside of comics, (though a few are starting to be a bit known with their various depictions on TV Alan isn't one of them, never even having a line in any of his tiny showings), and thus the impact of the move is very limited, which sort of makes it seem like DC is doing this simply to punch a ticket rather than to actually make a difference. Turning a Hal Jordan or Barry Allen gay might be harder, but it would also mean a lot more. It would be a bold move putting DC and WB's money where their mouth is, while this...seems weak sauce at best.

And if Alan can be called a closeted gay man...why not do the same with Hal or Barry? Just a 3 AM thought, for what little it's worth. For me it comes down to what DC and WB are trying to do here, pander, or actually try up representation. This move, which would have almost no impact, seems more the latter, and it seems to me that DC and WB are afraid of trying that with their more marketable characters.

The Ray had his sexuality changed as well.

Constantine I believe is their biggest male lead within LGBTQ.

[QUOTE=achilles;5034515]I'm not sure what turning Alan gay accomplishes that couldn't be done better by going bigger. If DC wanted to turn an established character gay who never was before, sure they can do it---and I won't rehash why, since that's been amply commented on by others here and I couldn't do better, but IMO it's go big or go home. After all, the JSA people while well liked in comic fandom are basically unknown outside of comics, (though a few are starting to be a bit known with their various depictions on TV Alan isn't one of them, never even having a line in any of his tiny showings), and thus the impact of the move is very limited, which sort of makes it seem like DC is doing this simply to punch a ticket rather than to actually make a difference. Turning a Hal Jordan or Barry Allen gay might be harder, but it would also mean a lot more. It would be a bold move putting DC and WB's money where their mouth is, while this...seems weak sauce at best.

And if Alan can be called a closeted gay man...why not do the same with Hal or Barry? Just a 3 AM thought, for what little it's worth. For me it comes down to what DC and WB are trying to do here, pander, or actually try up representation. This move, which would have almost no impact, seems more the latter, and it seems to me that DC and WB are afraid of trying that with their more marketable characters.[/QUOTE]

I think you’re right. Given all the reboots, etc in recent years it would be perfectly possible for one of the A list characters to be written as gay. And it would mean a lot more, and be a far braver move from DC.

One way..would be to just have a character fall in love with some one of same sex...for first time in their lives. It does happen.

Let’s see if DC do anything brave with it...say like having some other heroes/ Alan’s friends reacting to it badly. You know...the sort of things that (sadly) happen all the time in the real world.

I do not think DC will do anything “brave” with it, it’s all just cosmetic.

Obviously hope I am completely wrong in this.