What ever happened to Lyra?

I was wondering... what ever happened to Lyra ? I haven't seen her in the hulk comics in awhile ?



bonus question: is she really the daughter of hulk and thunder ? or is she like a clone of thunder with a little hulk dna so she could have her gamma powers ?

oh and one more bonus question. why are bruce and betty not together anymore. now that she is a hulk to you think that would bring them closer together ?

[QUOTE=kid_omega_prime;825355]I was wondering... what ever happened to Lyra ? I haven't seen her in the hulk comics in awhile ?

bonus question: is she really the daughter of hulk and thunder ? or is she like a clone of thunder with a little hulk dna so she could have her gamma powers ?[/QUOTE]

Lyra will be appearing in an upcoming issue of [I]Incredible Hulk[/I], as Doc Green is trying to depower all of the other Hulks. He's successfully depowered Rick and Betty, so impliedly Lyra is on his list as well.

Larger issue--Marvel never really figured out what to do with Lyra. She was an agent of ARMOR, then she was Jen's ward, and then she joined the Avengers Academy. She was briefly a Defender during FEAR ITSELF. Marvel may have planned to have her join the X-Men, but that never came to be.

Bonus answer: I believe the author of the original story where Lyra appeared (Jeff Parker?) intended her to be the product of a sexual union between the Hulk and Thundra, but editorial scrubbed that. Instead, Thundra got Hulk's DNA from his mouth (probably from running her tongue around in there). The [I]Fall of the Hulks: Red Hulk[/I] series dropped a hint that Ross might have actually been Lyra's father, but nothing came from that either.

[QUOTE=kid_omega_prime;825356]oh and one more bonus question. why are bruce and betty not together anymore. now that she is a hulk to you think that would bring them closer together ?[/QUOTE]

See recent issues of [I]Incredible Hulk[/I]: Betty's not a Hulk anymore. Also, after Betty came back from the dead, she'd learned that Bruce had been married to Caiera and kind of wanted to move on with her life now that so much time had passed since she'd died. As a larger point, Bruce and Betty may have been another "breakup" couple since Marvel doesn't seem to like permanent couples right now.

[QUOTE=resipsaloquitur;825369]As a larger point, Bruce and Betty may have been another "breakup" couple since Marvel doesn't seem to like permanent couples right now.[/QUOTE]Truth is she was "dead" dead, at least so much as dead meant dead at the time after Infinity: The End (which is as it should be). The Better/Bruce thing had NEVER gained a lot of traction as a solid relationship. How COULD it? How could ANY relationship with Banner work unless the woman was serious high level superhuman in her own right AND got lucky and Banner/Hulk didn't lose it.

[QUOTE=resipsaloquitur;825368]Lyra will be appearing in an upcoming issue of [I]Incredible Hulk[/I], as Doc Green is trying to depower all of the other Hulks. He's successfully depowered Rick and Betty, so impliedly Lyra is on his list as well.

Larger issue--Marvel never really figured out what to do with Lyra. She was an agent of ARMOR, then she was Jen's ward, and then she joined the Avengers Academy. She was briefly a Defender during FEAR ITSELF. Marvel may have planned to have her join the X-Men, but that never came to be.

Bonus answer: I believe the author of the original story where Lyra appeared (Jeff Parker?) intended her to be the product of a sexual union between the Hulk and Thundra, but editorial scrubbed that. Instead, Thundra got Hulk's DNA from his mouth (probably from running her tongue around in there). The [I]Fall of the Hulks: Red Hulk[/I] series dropped a hint that Ross might have actually been Lyra's father, but nothing came from that either.[/QUOTE]

Of course, with Lyra, even if he managed to remove the Hulk-related parts of her genetic makeup, you would think she should remain approximately as strong and tough as her mother, Thundra - which is still plenty superhuman.

Unless the main idea is just to not have any other Hulks around, in which case with Lyra Doc Green's solution might involve sending her back to her alternate future instead of depowering her.

I wish Marvel had run with the idea of her being an ARMOR agent. In fact, I really wish ARMOR had caught on more. It was a great idea that really makes sense in the MU, especially with all of the stuff going on in Avengers right now. I really hope that someone utilizes them better in the future, and they can utilize the many alternate universe characters in the 616 as a task force.

Quite possibly, she might be another Hulk depowered and made normal. But yeah I would love to see her more as an ARMOR agent.

[QUOTE=Nix Uotan;826694]Quite possibly, she might be another Hulk depowered and made normal. But yeah I would love to see her more as an ARMOR agent.[/QUOTE]
Given how this Onega Hulk arc has ended every issue that Doc Green confronts another hulk with them depowered and him going off on his way, I think might is giving a little too much hope that she's spared (yes I am still a bit bitter from the loss of both Skaar and Red She-Hulk).

[QUOTE=Nix Uotan;826694]Quite possibly, she might be another Hulk depowered and made normal. But yeah I would love to see her more as an ARMOR agent.[/QUOTE]

Given her mother is Thundra, I'd assume even if de-Hulked she'd still be strong enough to wrestle the Thing.

[QUOTE=vitruvian;827923]Given her mother is Thundra, I'd assume even if de-Hulked she'd still be strong enough to wrestle the Thing.[/QUOTE]

Maybe, maybe. Lyra was briefly depowered in Incredible Hulk #605 and appeared to be a woman of moderate muscular build. However, in the later She-Hulks miniseries, Lyra seems to have been retconned in age to a teenager, possibly age 16. She looked to be of very "regular" build and didn't look capable of lifting more than her own weight.

One thing that's never been resolved is the status of Lyra's relationship with her mom. After getting the Hulk's DNA, Thundra returned to her future and gave birth to Lyra, raising her for a few years. She disappeared after that and Lyra grew to resent her mom for not being there as she grew up. Lyra later met a past version of Thundra from after she got Hulk's DNA but before returning home (time travel...yeesh) and eventually came to forgive Thundra for leaving her. Why Thundra left was never explained, although she did show up last year in Fearless Defenders.

So anyway, we're overdue for a Thundra/Lyra reunion.

Not to hijack this thread, but the mention of Lyra remaining powered by Thundra has be wondering.

Why would Skaar leave the Savage Land when he still has Oldstrong powers? Or did he give those powers up? I mean Caiera was able to go toe-to-toe with the Hulk (albeit diminished in strength) back on Sakaar. Surely Oldstrong powers would have been enough for Skaar to survive there.

[QUOTE=resipsaloquitur;827962]Maybe, maybe. Lyra was briefly depowered in Incredible Hulk #605 and appeared to be a woman of moderate muscular build. However, in the later She-Hulks miniseries, Lyra seems to have been retconned in age to a teenager, possibly age 16. She looked to be of very "regular" build and didn't look capable of lifting more than her own weight.[/QUOTE]

Well, it's not like Thundra, while quite muscular, looks like she ought to be able to wrestle the Thing, either. Was Lyra specifically deprived of her gamma-related powers in #605, or depowered in general?

[QUOTE=Ceebiro;828087]Not to hijack this thread, but the mention of Lyra remaining powered by Thundra has be wondering.

Why would Skaar leave the Savage Land when he still has Oldstrong powers? Or did he give those powers up? I mean Caiera was able to go toe-to-toe with the Hulk (albeit diminished in strength) back on Sakaar. Surely Oldstrong powers would have been enough for Skaar to survive there.[/QUOTE]

He chose to be coy about whether he retained the Oldstrong powers, although there's really no reason to think a cure for gamma mutation would affect them one way or the other. As for staying in the Savage Land, Doc Green was suggesting he wouldn't possess the physical constitution for it (although honestly some real wimps have stayed there with no problem), and he didn't seem to feel as at home there anyway so didn't protest about being transported to a city with a backpack full of green (as in cash).

hey I relised I never got a answer to my bonus question. is she really the daughter of hulk and thunder ? or is she like a clone of thunder with a little hulk dna so she could have her gamma powers ? on dc database it says that... "Thundra of this dimension traveled to Earth-616 in search of its greatest, most powerful hero. She soon came into conflict with Hulk, finding exactly what she needed. After battling for a period of time, there was a halt and Thundra explained the troubles of her world to Hulk, eventually kissing him, secretly sampling DNA from his saliva. Immediately afterwards she was transported back to her universe. The G-Engineers then spliced the Hulk's DNA with her own, and eventually Lyra was born."

that sounds like a clone to me. I was also thinking of adding hulk to my list. that's why i'm ask about lyra.

[QUOTE=kid_omega_prime;840760]hey I relised I never got a answer to my bonus question. is she really the daughter of hulk and thunder ? or is she like a clone of thunder with a little hulk dna so she could have her gamma powers ? on dc database it says that... "Thundra of this dimension traveled to Earth-616 in search of its greatest, most powerful hero. She soon came into conflict with Hulk, finding exactly what she needed. After battling for a period of time, there was a halt and Thundra explained the troubles of her world to Hulk, eventually kissing him, secretly sampling DNA from his saliva. Immediately afterwards she was transported back to her universe. The G-Engineers then spliced the Hulk's DNA with her own, and eventually Lyra was born."

that sounds like a clone to me. I was also thinking of adding hulk to my list. that's why i'm ask about lyra.[/QUOTE]

That's more like a test tube baby, because it has half the genetic material of both parents. Aside from using his spit instead of sperm, that's all available tech for the public now.

[QUOTE=hunter_peterson;840784]That's more like a test tube baby, because it has half the genetic material of both parents. Aside from using his spit instead of sperm, that's all available tech for the public now.[/QUOTE]

mmmm.... test tube baby I see. kind of like x-man from AOA. so then she is not really his daughter then ? more like a very distant relative ? oh is it true the ultimate hulk is a cannibal ?

[QUOTE=kid_omega_prime;840814]mmmm.... test tube baby I see. kind of like x-man from AOA. so then she is not really his daughter then ? more like a very distant relative ? oh is it true the ultimate hulk is a cannibal ?[/QUOTE]

How do you get from 'half the genetic material of both parents' to 'not really his daughter' and 'very distant relative'?

[QUOTE=kid_omega_prime;840814]mmmm.... test tube baby I see. kind of like x-man from AOA. so then she is not really his daughter then ? more like a very distant relative ? oh is it true the ultimate hulk is a cannibal ?[/QUOTE]

Yes, Ultimate Hulk is a cannibal. He is also a rapist and murderer, because that's the kind of thing superheroes do in the Ultimate universe. One of the fun things about it, in a weird way.

And no, she is as related to the Hulk as you are to your biological father. They obviously don't have a dad/daughter relationship, but biologically he's definitely her father. And it would be exactly the same as X-Man; both are made from the genetics of two people, just like anyone else.

I don't know why Lyra didn't intervene in the many deaths Johnny Storm went through in the Negative Zone. She could have shape changed into an insect like the inhabitants and been able to rescue Johnny out of there?

[QUOTE=jackolover;843699]I don't know why Lyra didn't intervene in the many deaths Johnny Storm went through in the Negative Zone. She could have shape changed into an insect like the inhabitants and been able to rescue Johnny out of there?[/QUOTE]

Since when can she shape change? This is a thread about Lyra, the Thundra's daughter She-Hulk, not Lyja, the Skrull who once masqueraded as Alicia Masters.

[QUOTE=hunter_peterson;843688]Yes, Ultimate Hulk is a cannibal. He is also a rapist and murderer, because that's the kind of thing superheroes do in the Ultimate universe. One of the fun things about it, in a weird way.

And no, she is as related to the Hulk as you are to your biological father. They obviously don't have a dad/daughter relationship, but biologically he's definitely her father. And it would be exactly the same as X-Man; both are made from the genetics of two people, just like anyone else.[/QUOTE]

I see. well I gess that means no hulk for my list then. that sucks about ultimate hulk. oh well you win some and you lose some.

[QUOTE=vitruvian;843724]Since when can she shape change? This is a thread about Lyra, the Thundra's daughter She-Hulk, not Lyja, the Skrull who once masqueraded as Alicia Masters.[/QUOTE]
It's a common mistake with their names so close. Anyway, Lyra did meet Johnny when she was with the Frightful Four to abduct Reed; he burned off her clothes (not a mistake from his perspective); she knocked him silly, and stole his red Jim Hammond homage costume. Wonder if she ever returned it to him.

[QUOTE=Ravin' Ray;847852]It's a common mistake with their names so close. Anyway, Lyra did meet Johnny when she was with the Frightful Four to abduct Reed; he burned off her clothes (not a mistake from his perspective); she knocked him silly, and stole his red Jim Hammond homage costume. Wonder if she ever returned it to him.[/QUOTE]

I wish we could have gotten some Hulk/Human Torch follow-up to that. "You did WHAT to my daughter?"

[QUOTE=vitruvian;843660]How do you get from 'half the genetic material of both parents' to 'not really his daughter' and 'very distant relative'?[/QUOTE]

well I thought lyra would be like dc's superboy were he is a hybrid clone of sups and lex luther. maybe lyra could be a hybrid clone to.

[QUOTE=kid_omega_prime;850932]well I thought lyra would be like dc's superboy were he is a hybrid clone of sups and lex luther. maybe lyra could be a hybrid clone to.[/QUOTE]

That is literally the same thing as this. Superboy is just like anyone else, in that his DNA is made up of the combination of two other people's. (Ignoring the stupidity about his parentage in the New 52.) Obviously the difference is that one of his parents isn't human at all, but still. His biological parents are Superman and Lex Luthor. Lara's biological parents are the Hulk and Thundra. The only difference breeding-wise between them and naturally born people is that there was no sex involved.

[QUOTE=vitruvian;843724]Since when can she shape change? This is a thread about Lyra, the Thundra's daughter She-Hulk, not Lyja, the Skrull who once masqueraded as Alicia Masters.[/QUOTE]

The common Lyra/Lyja confusion combined with the existence of another similarly named, longstanding villainess (Llyra...also green) makes me wish tptb would have named She-Hulk Jr something else. Like GAMMA! 😊

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Lyra and Thundra together ;) in Squadrom Supreme 15 in Weirdworld

Since I can't find another topic relating to the character and I don't want to start a new one, I'm reluctantly bumping this to ask a question:

Since Lyra has been largely AWOL since Secret Wars, this would actually be a good opportunity for Marvel to bring Lyra back with a new background. IMO, the background she currently has is so convoluted it makes people's heads spin and her personality is a mixture of stone-cold and borderline-villainous (she actually HAS been a villain).

So how would you reboot her without her loads of baggage and making her someone Marvel can count on? Or, alternatively, how would you turn her baggage into a positive instead of a negative?

IMO, I would reboot her as a straight-up daughter of Hulk and Thundra, without the alternate dimension/clone stuff. Early on in the Hulk's existence, Thundra sensed an opportunity to get the ultimate warrior and seduced Bruce or the Hulk (or BOTH). This would be easier than you'd expect, as the Hulk would want a "Hulk friend", and Bruce would be looking for all the help he can get while evading the military. Then, Thundra experiments on the resulting fetus to ensure a girl, blah blah blah genetic engineering, and out comes Lyra.

Bruce/Hulk is not happy about being taken advantage of and having a secret daughter that Thundra intends to raise into a villain. Bruce/Hulk take custody of Lyra from Thundra when she's still young, and either raise Lyra on their own or hand Lyra to Jennifer to raise/hide away from Thundra. Thundra, subsequently, has never stopped trying to find Lyra so she can fulfill her destiny of taking back control of Thundra's alternate-dimension empire.

Meanwhile, Lyra has grown up as an intelligent, down-to-earth girl with a low-key, sardonic sense of humor, either due to spending so much time with Bruce and his battles, or due to having to live under the roof of quirky Jennifer. This provides a starting point for a likable character to emerge and come unto her own as a true legacy character to both Bruce and Thundra. A girl who is torn between two parents, two agendas, who wants to be a hero but also treasures her privacy and wants nothing to do with fulfilling some grand design.

[URL="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/81/b8/ec/81b8ec908b7c93d6ffa7b22fa6456c7f--anime-smile-girl-girl-and-girl-anime.jpg"]Also, a quick example of what this Lyra might look like.[/URL] Hotlinking due to size.

But that's just me. How would any of you try to start Lyra over so she'd actually have a fair shot at succeeding this time?