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[QUOTE=Will Evans;4979676]What Avengers lack in prominent women, they make up in prominent PoC.
One team before Secret Wars was Falcon, Luke Cage, Monica Rambeau, Blade, Power Man, White Tiger, Blue Marvel with just Doc Ock Spider-Man and She-Hulk as non-PoC.
You couldn’t do the same with X-Men.[/QUOTE]Yes you could
Storm, Bishop, Prodigy, Monet, Sunspot, Blink, Cecelia Reyes
or something I proposed a while back
[img]https://i.imgur.com/r3gRwwW.jpg[/img]
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[QUOTE=Havok83;4979684]Yes you could
Storm, Bishop, Prodigy, Monet, Sunspot, Blink, Cecelia Reyes
or something I proposed a while back
[img]https://i.imgur.com/r3gRwwW.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Your right. I misspoke.
They could, but they never would.
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[QUOTE=Havok83;4979684]Yes you could
Storm, Bishop, Prodigy, Monet, Sunspot, Blink, Cecelia Reyes
or something I proposed a while back
[img]https://i.imgur.com/r3gRwwW.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Ah yes, true diversity. I can almost see the Japanese, Chinese, and Native American characters!
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This was easier than I thought it would be.
Team Mom - Storm
Old Dad - Forge
New Dad - Bishop
Crazy Uncle - Wolverine (token whitie)
New Dad's Bestie - Neal Shaara
Estranged Auntie - Kwannon
Gifted Kid - Taki Matsya
City Cousin - Jubilee
Country Cousin - Dust
This could sell, no?
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[QUOTE=Will Evans;4979676]What Avengers lack in prominent women, they make up in prominent PoC.
One team before Secret Wars was Falcon, Luke Cage, Monica Rambeau, Blade, Power Man, White Tiger, Blue Marvel with just Doc Ock Spider-Man and She-Hulk as non-PoC.
You couldn’t do the same with X-Men.[/QUOTE]
There are quite a bit of PoC in the X-Universe. The problem is that most writers don't know how to write them in any meaningful way. Storm has gotten the most development obviously, but most others have gotten pretty clichéd back stories. Examples like Cecilia throwing out a "madre de dios" and the whole Kwannon/ninja Betsy debacle.
Here's a list I made up:
Mainstream X-peeps - Storm, Sunfire, Thunderbird/Warpath, Forge, Sunspot, Dani Moonstar, Karma, Rictor, Kwannon, Jubilee, Bishop, Monet, Synch, Skin
Junior X-Men - Armor, Angel Salvatore, Dust, Gentle, Surge, Prodigy, Indra
Periphery characters - Gateway, Frenzy, Threnody, Cecilia Reyes, Maggot, Thunderbird (Neal Shaara), Karima Shapandar, Darwin, Sway, Bedlam
Other mutants - Daken, Shaman, Cloak, Manifold, Nico Minoru
Human allies - Stevie Hunter, Yukio, Charlotte Jones
Someone make up a team and pitch it to us!
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[QUOTE=houndsofluv;4964676]
why can't these interesting, complex and powerful women dominate a lineup because of their skills, their prowess? Why can they not be there because, quite simply, they are best-suited for the mission at hand? The best there is at what they do, if you will, lol. This is when the best work will come to fruition, the best developments, and it will thrive because its what we really want to see: the merits of these characters, the merits that we can see just fine, reflected in the work.
We don't like these characters [I]solely[/I] because of their womanhood - this is but one aspect of their fictional beings- so why should we be pleased when this is the single aspect of these characters that is fixated upon in the work that highlights them ?
[/QUOTE]
This, absolutely. What I pretty much appreciated about Claremont's work (besides the fact that he created and used a [I]whole bunch[/I] of female characters, mutants or not) was that he wrote them as [I]persons[/I]: being a woman was irrelevant to the plot, except when it was applicable because of a justifiable reason. That's what I want about women in comics.
[QUOTE=Veitha;4965403]
So I recently read X-Women with the art by Milo Manara and I was wondering... What's the general thought on that? Because it was awful for me. Such a nice team and art for a fanfiction-y story.[/QUOTE]
Fanservice. I bought it because I love CC, I love Manara and I love X-Women, but the story was pretty foolish and there was scenes almost offensive as Ororo running away from a lustful pretender. The one thing I liked was that the girls had their powers blocked, so they must manage by themselves. That and their civilian clothes.
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What can the Avengers women do to be on par with the X-women?
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[QUOTE=Will Evans;4981530]What can the Avengers women do to be on par with the X-women?[/QUOTE]
Is this about skills or power? They're fairly equal, despite being lesser known but that's because X-men got more popular first. The Avengers didn't get a good cartoon until 2013.
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[QUOTE=Ricochet Rita;4980054]This, absolutely. What I pretty much appreciated about Claremont's work (besides the fact that he created and used a [I]whole bunch[/I] of female characters, mutants or not) was that he wrote them as [I]persons[/I]: being a woman was irrelevant to the plot, except when it was applicable because of a justifiable reason. That's what I want about women in comics.
Fanservice. I bought it because I love CC, I love Manara and I love X-Women, but the story was pretty foolish and there was scenes almost offensive as [B]Ororo running away from a lustful pretender[/B]. The one thing I liked was that the girls had their powers blocked, so they must manage by themselves. That and their civilian clothes.[/QUOTE]
That one left me like wtf is going on here.
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[QUOTE=Electricmastro;4979696]Ah yes, true diversity. I can almost see the Japanese, Chinese, and Native American characters![/QUOTE]
This reminds me that the Avengers really do need to up their diversity game.
There are multiple native american mutants, like Moonstar, Thunderbird, Warpath and Forge, and I don't remember if the Avengers have had even one (was Red Wolf an Avenger for a hot second?). Multiple asian mutants (Sunfire, Xorn, Sway, Karma, Kwannon, Surge, Armor, Wiz Kid, Nature Girl, Sprite, Trinary, Dust, Thunderbird III, etc.), and, for Avengers, I think Mantis, and Shang-Chi, again, for a hot second?
But anywho, back to the topic, an Avengers team of ladies with characters like Sersi, Crystal, Moondragon, Mantis, Smasher, Captain Universe, She-Hulk and Monica Rambeau on it would rock all the houses, since those respective ladies are crazy powerful. More street-level folk like Mockingbird, Black Widow and White Tiger are also fun, as are mid-tier peeps like Jocasta, Wasp and Tigra.
It's kind of an embarrassment of riches, how many great women there are to pick from, and kind of annoying that so many Avengers lineups have just one or two women, on a five to seven person team!
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[QUOTE=Sutekh;4981971]This reminds me that the Avengers really do need to up their diversity game.
There are multiple native american mutants, like Moonstar, Thunderbird, Warpath and Forge, and I don't remember if the Avengers have had even one (was Red Wolf an Avenger for a hot second?). Multiple asian mutants (Sunfire, Xorn, Sway, Karma, Kwannon, Surge, Armor, Wiz Kid, Nature Girl, Sprite, Trinary, Dust, Thunderbird III, etc.), and, for Avengers, I think Mantis, and Shang-Chi, again, for a hot second?
But anywho, back to the topic, an Avengers team of ladies with characters like Sersi, Crystal, Moondragon, Mantis, Smasher, Captain Universe, She-Hulk and Monica Rambeau on it would rock all the houses, since those respective ladies are crazy powerful. More street-level folk like Mockingbird, Black Widow and White Tiger are also fun, as are mid-tier peeps like Jocasta, Wasp and Tigra.
It's kind of an embarrassment of riches, how many great women there are to pick from, and kind of annoying that so many Avengers lineups have just one or two women, on a five to seven person team![/QUOTE]
I get the feeling that many of the Native American and Asian mutants and characters in general get pushed aside out of focusing more on Storm, whom I’m sure Marvel feels is popular to the point that they can always go to her whenever someone complains about teams not having diverse representatives whenever newer characters end up falling short of their popularity. She was even made part of the Earth-616 Avengers for a time (Avengers #20, February 2012).
[img]https://i.imgur.com/20GFIH3.jpg[/img]
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I'm pretty sure Claudine Renko counts. :D
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/2/26/Claudine_Renko_%28Earth-616%29_from_X-Men_Blue_Vol_1_27_002.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180616170324&format=original[/img]
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1 Attachment(s)
another virtual doll experiment.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]97042[/ATTACH]
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[QUOTE=marhawkman;4982036]I'm pretty sure Claudine Renko counts. :D
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/2/26/Claudine_Renko_%28Earth-616%29_from_X-Men_Blue_Vol_1_27_002.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180616170324&format=original[/img][/QUOTE]
Mister Sinister is Orochimaru.
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[QUOTE=Havok83;4979684]Yes you could
Storm, Bishop, Prodigy, Monet, Sunspot, Blink, Cecelia Reyes
or something I proposed a while back
[img]https://i.imgur.com/r3gRwwW.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Oh I love this.. Can we add Tempo and Oya ..I would buy and read this cover to cover.