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Loki Appreciation 2019
[img]https://img.purch.com/h/1400/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5uZXdzYXJhbWEuY29tL2ltYWdlcy9pLzAwMC8xNjAvNDM3L29yaWdpbmFsL1RIRU1JR0hUWVRIT1IyMDE1MDAzMDA2X2lua3NDLkpQRz8xNDQ5ODYxNDA5[/img]
Oh, looks like it's time to start a new version of the thread for our favorite god of mischief magic and mayhem....
I mean, does anyone really read this first post? We all know who Loki is and what he's up to, yeah? We all know he's one of Marvel's top (ex)villains who is currently in the midst of a long running face turn? Okay then. So here's a link to the last page of the previous thread so we can continue on with the discussion:
[url]https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?369-Loki-Appreciation-2018/page303[/url]
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Okay. so he wasn't in Marvel Knights, but a surprise twist ending makes my speculation about Black Panther still plausible for the final issue. [spoil]so it looks like T'Challa was tasked with protecting the machine that caused the memory/perception alteration, but it was stolen... By Punisher, Hulk, Elektra and Daredevil. They CAUSED the whole mess in the first place. So now T'Challa has to fight them, and he could probably use an ally that also remembers what happened before...)[/spoil]
He was also in Infinity Watch: Infinity (.... really?) but it was just leadin to the Wolverine thing. though i was a bit surprised and confused to see it was Phoenix Wolverine from the future that came for Loki, I had assumed it would be Wolverine in the present.
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Attention, Marvelites! True hero and sweet baby Loki has been kidnapped by a hairy cosmic Canadian! To save #BestGod, he'll need your credit card number, the three numbers on the back, and the expiration month and year. Hurry, it’s not long before he gets drowned in beer!
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Loki. I forgot when was the first time I saw or heard about him. I think he, like Thor, is just a character you just know what he looks like from pop culture osmosis, and I don't mean Tom Hiddleston. I already know about his classic old trickster look long before MCU.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]75926[/ATTACH]
What I do remember is my first experience with him as an MCU character was from Marvel Ultimate Alliance. He's one of the later bosses fought together with Baron Mordo after Doom tricked them (heh) into transfering Odin's power to him.
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Loki is the only boss in Ultimate Alliance who was actually climactic. Also, Larry Cedar's performance killed it harder than The Void. Best Loki voice.
I'VE COME TO PAY MY [I]RESPEKS[/I], [B]TO ODIN!![/B]
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[QUOTE=Snoop Dogg;4112479]Attention, Marvelites! True hero and sweet baby Loki has been kidnapped by a hairy cosmic Canadian! To save #BestGod, he'll need your credit card number, the three numbers on the back, and the expiration month and year. Hurry, it’s not long before he gets drowned in beer![/QUOTE]
OMG, my poor sweet baby! Where do I send the money?
I find the ending amusing. Future Phoenix Wolverine (because I am never not calling him that) gets sent back in time, presumably because everything went kablooey. So, if you get sent back in time, who's the very first person you'd track down (to the point where you are hunting for them through space)? I mean, Loki, obvs :p. Granted, I think it's implied that future Loki (I think we can rule out the necro-sword one) helped Future Phoenix Wolverine with the plan and the time shenanigans, which is why he trusts him. But Loki's not the answer you'd get if you asked most people. A lot of them would probably give you very odd looks, especially because a decent number of folk still think he's the villain (or so it seems).
Wonder how this is going to tie into Aaron's work, especially because Future Phoenix Wolverine is in both, and Loki mentions the War of the Realms towards the end of the issue.
Also, they are the most infinity stone-less Infinity Watch, ever. I almost want to say staying that way would be more successful, since they wouldn't be gathering the damn things in one place. Has anyone ever heard of walkie-talkies? Or the fact that the person with the mind stone is psychic? Anyways...
The teaser trailer for War of the Realms didn't have any Loki in it :( I kind of think he's conspicuously absent, though. That's four books he's been in that tie into War of the Realms, now that he mentioned it in this issue (Asgardians of the Galaxy, Thor, foreshadowed here and in Avengers). I mean, I'm hoping Thor gets a strong showing, and regains Mjolnir (I'd rate as highly likely), but I also hope Loki gets a strong showing, too. Maybe they both can. After all, Loki's a plotter and planner where Thor is a heavy hitter, those are two different but complimentary roles. I'm guessing they're not showing him as much because they can't put him on Malekith's side (since Loki's betrayal is all but certain), but showing him with the heroes would spoil things.
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[QUOTE=Snoop Dogg;4112813]Loki is the only boss in Ultimate Alliance who was actually climactic. Also, Larry Cedar's performance killed it harder than The Void. Best Loki voice.
I'VE COME TO PAY MY [I]RESPEKS[/I], [B]TO ODIN!![/B][/QUOTE]
Oh, speaking of Loki in games, has anyone been keeping up with Avengers Academy? I dropped it after the monetization got utterly absurd, and apparently I wasn't alone, because it is shutting down soon. I may check back in to see how the story wraps up but am missing a chunk in the middle there...
Also, Loki kicks quite a bit of ass in Marvel Strike force, especially if you have his Ragnarok costume. Which was a nice change after he was fun to play but poorly balanced (in the weak direction) in Marvel Heroes (also now shut down). Before they kinda broke him, and a lot of other characters, towards the end there.
[QUOTE=Snoop Dogg;4112479]Attention, Marvelites! True hero and sweet baby Loki has been kidnapped by a hairy cosmic Canadian! To save #BestGod, he'll need your credit card number, the three numbers on the back, and the expiration month and year. Hurry, it’s not long before he gets drowned in beer![/QUOTE]
I mean, there are worse ways to go, I guess...
[QUOTE=Riimi;4113249]OMG, my poor sweet baby! Where do I send the money?
I find the ending amusing. Future Phoenix Wolverine (because I am never not calling him that) gets sent back in time, presumably because everything went kablooey. So, if you get sent back in time, who's the very first person you'd track down (to the point where you are hunting for them through space)? I mean, Loki, obvs :p. Granted, I think it's implied that future Loki (I think we can rule out the necro-sword one) helped Future Phoenix Wolverine with the plan and the time shenanigans, which is why he trusts him. But Loki's not the answer you'd get if you asked most people. A lot of them would probably give you very odd looks, especially because a decent number of folk still think he's the villain (or so it seems).
Wonder how this is going to tie into Aaron's work, especially because Future Phoenix Wolverine is in both, and Loki mentions the War of the Realms towards the end of the issue.
Also, they are the most infinity stone-less Infinity Watch, ever. I almost want to say staying that way would be more successful, since they wouldn't be gathering the damn things in one place. Has anyone ever heard of walkie-talkies? Or the fact that the person with the mind stone is psychic? Anyways...
The teaser trailer for War of the Realms didn't have any Loki in it :( I kind of think he's conspicuously absent, though. That's four books he's been in that tie into War of the Realms, now that he mentioned it in this issue (Asgardians of the Galaxy, Thor, foreshadowed here and in Avengers). I mean, I'm hoping Thor gets a strong showing, and regains Mjolnir (I'd rate as highly likely), but I also hope Loki gets a strong showing, too. Maybe they both can. After all, Loki's a plotter and planner where Thor is a heavy hitter, those are two different but complimentary roles. I'm guessing they're not showing him as much because they can't put him on Malekith's side (since Loki's betrayal is all but certain), but showing him with the heroes would spoil things.[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone has one of the stones, except the time stone. didn't Adam Warlock give them all free will so they could just go wherever and do whatever? so I'd imagine Loki and Wolverine's task will be to track down where the stones went.
And yeah, there's clearly some time travel shenanigans going on, which may tie into my thought that "Kid Loki" may not be a creation of our present day Loki, but rather created by Loki in the future, and then sent back in time. Maybe. It's hard to say for sure. And I think it all must connect to the War of the Realms somehow, but I think a lot of things are leading into or tying into War of the Realms. They say it's one of their biggest events ever, so even if he hadn't been shown to be neck deep in the leadup so far, I think it would be extremely surprising if he wasn't taking part, considering it seems like even characters that have very little connection to Asgard, such as Daredevil are participating. (actually, come to think of it, on the Marvel Knights speculation, those characters were on the teaser image, weren't they? well, except Elektra. hm...)
ps. I edited the OP with a picture, seemed like a good one since it shows lots of different Lokis. I may edit later to actually include something more about him. I just wanted to get the thread started because it was wednesday, and I am a bit busy lately because I am moving in like a week and a half.
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KidLoki being a creation of Loki from the future? It could work, I'm cool with this. It's almost too sensible.
My guess is that Loki won't tie in with the main books for War of the Realms except for the big issues, but instead we'll see his actions in Infinity whatever it is now.
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But this was just a oneshot, and it seems like it was tacked on at the last second since it wasn't listed in the earlier checklists at all, and Bagley's art looks kinda rushed to me, and if you're rushing Bagley of all people, who is a very fast artist, the turnaround on this thing had to be tight. Infinity stuff is blessedly over, aside from the Wolverine thing, which will be just 5 issues, and I would be extremely surprised if that was the only tie Loki had to the event. Especially after all Aaron has done with him, and there are still unresolved plot threads with Loki that can only really be covered in Thor or War of the Realms proper. Remember, War of the Realms isn't just an event, it is the end of Aaron's run, he's got things he has to resolve in it as a result, and the stuff with both Loki and his family (mainly Freyja and Thor) and Laufey and the question of his biological parentage should be in there. Also the stuff with Malekith, if Loki's going to stab him in the back anywhere, it will be in one of the core books (Thor or War of the Realms, maybe Avengers) not some side-thing that will be half over before the event even starts. There is also the stuff with Black Panther figuring out his motivations, and i think more is probably going to come of that in either Thor (that's where he first said anything about it) or Avengers (where T'Challa normally appears). I suspect his lack of presence in the promo material is just because it would be spoilery.
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Loki is integral to the War of the Realms, both on a diagetic (in-world) level and on a meta (out-of-world) level. Basically, removing him from that story means that everything that has been set up in the story would need to be set up all over again, and that applies beyond the direct Loki stuff that Raye just outlined. The main conflict of the whole story lays with Loki and what he knows and does, in both [I]Thor[/I] and [I]Avengers.[/I]
It certainly has gotten messier because Loki is just in frickin' everything, but he's core to the War of the Realms story and it, really, is core to where the character goes from here. War of the Realms is a story [B]about[/B] Loki, where Loki's character and motivations and evolution are integral, whereas [I]Infinite Infinities: The Infinite Infinity[/I] is a story with Loki just ... in it.
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Yeah, Loki was so integral to the leadup, and it affected him on a personal level to such an extent, that I just can't see Aaron pawning off the resolution to these sub-plots on some other writer. Or even how that would be possible without simply dropping key plots within War of the Realms. (even if the Wolverine thing wouldn't have just 2 or 3 issues left in it by the time War of the Realms even started) I mean, we have Loki having or choosing to work with Laufey, his biological father, with some hints dropped that there is something up with his bilogical parentage. And then with Malekith, the guy behind everything that's happening, there is, just.... [I]everything[/I]. Loki's in things up to his eyeballs with Malekith, has been since his first appearance under Aaron's run, literally from the very first panel, and it is strongly hinted that he will be betraying him at some point. You can't just have that end with no resolution. Loki "working with" Malekith, all the things he's done, but accompanied by moping, the implication being made that though he appeared to be doing bad things, things which he doesn't enjoy doing, he did them anyway because he saw it as acting towards a greater good, and had a largely good end goal and betrayal of Malekith in mind. Not a position i necessarily agree with, but... it's what he thinks. The whole "Loki is doing bad things for a good purpose" thing was started in Thor, as a part of the War of the Realms leadup, and it should be resolved there. Other writers have used this characterization, sure, but they were following what Aaron was doing, and i think it should be Aaron who brings that part of the story to a close. Maybe not resolve it entirely, or bring that whole characterization to an end, but at least address it some more, make it absolutely clear what he was doing and why. These are integral parts of the leadup and I just can't see them being abandoned, if they are abandoned that would be a huge fuckup on Aaron's part in my eyes. I also don't think they can be adequately addressed in a couple key issues, it's something that ought to be running through the narrative in a persistent way.
TLDR; I'd bet money on Loki being a very major part of the main War of the Realms book.
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Asgardians of the Galaxy preview:
[url]https://screenrant.com/marvel-comics-asgardians-galaxy-preview/[/url]
He's talking like he wants to team up with her for something dastardly, but we saw last issue that he actually went to Thor to get his help, so not too worried about that, I'm sure he is just trying to manipulate her. And he even seems to have given up on that by his final couple speech balloons.
Also next week is Jessica Jones returning from hiatus, I still think there is a chance he may be involved there because of that strange Asgardian artifact, (why he did that tho? I dunno) but if there is a (lettered. they've released some art a while back) preview i haven't found it.
Loki didn't appear in any of this week's comics that I saw, but I still think he may be joining the Agents of Wakanda, I get the feeling we didn't see everyone in Thor and Avengers, and he's probably a later recruit anyway, assuming he does get recruited there. But the Asgardians now know of Malekith's Bifrost, so it remains to be seen if they learn of Loki's involvement there, and hopefully we learn why exactly Loki did that.
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Huh, this is a bit of a twist: [URL="https://www.newsarama.com/43494-squirrel-girl-crashes-into-marvel-s-war-of-the-realms.html"]Squirrel Girl is breaking her streak of not getting involved in events, and joining The War Of The Realms.[/URL] Apparently Loki has some kind of secret mission for her? Neat, it's always good to see him in that book. Although it's funny that this is his first really confirmed role the event.
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We did have kidLoki in Asgardians. Thor knows, but he didn't try and murder him...progress! (?)
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[img]https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/WOTR-THOR-12.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=737[/img]
"Fatherly love is not something with which Loki Laufeyson is terribly familiar. Still, you’d think that with the Frost Giants invading New York in Malekith’s WAR OF THE REALMS, he’d find some quality time to spend with dear old deadly Dad. And he will. But not in the way you’d think…"
the baby is getting a WOTR spotlight issue drawn by del mundo oh thankyew marble comics thank you for my life
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I'm worried for Loki. This is the first bit we have seen of him for WOTR. What's he doing behind the scenes?
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Asgardians of the Space Zone #5 was the 26th best-selling issue on Comixology this week, right next to Black Panther. Since we were talking about sales recently.
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So I have been moving the past week, so i haven't had time to just sit down and read this thread or comics or pretty much anything. But I have a few minutes before i tear down my computer before moving it to the new place, so here we go.
Squirrel Girl sounds fun!
and the Thor tie-in, or at least the cover, would make me worry for Loki, but we know from previous buildup to this event that Loki s not exactly enthused for the War of the Realms and the damage it will cause the Earth, so I think that cover is kind of deceptive. the Squirrel Girl interview also kinda backs this up, since I don't think Doreen would be doing a mission for Loki if he was up to something bad. Of all the Marvel characters, her moral compass is one of the best. North also said Loki was 'trying' even if he slipped up sometimes. So I think his intentions in all this are still good, they just don't want to spoil that up front too much, since his actions and allegiances have been a bit murky in the leadup. Will be interesting to see what they do with his relationship with Laufey, tho. Seems to me this is the issue where all the teases finally start to get resolved, and we see why Loki wanted to keep him alive despite hating him, what information he was trying to get out of him, or whatever.
The cover that does worry me is the Asgardians of the Galaxy cover, just because, well, since why isn't he on it and all the rest are? hm.
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Yeah, the Squirrel Girl stuff looks fun. Doreen and her cast are going to make their book very interesting, especially given how big the attack force will be.
One interesting thing is that I'm wondering if the Wolverine involved is 616 Wolverine, who appears to be involved with AOX. Which might confirm that Loki isn't working with 616 Logan.
Also, I am pumped for Logan and Loki vs Darkhawk!
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By the way, speaking of wild guesses, the solicit for issue 2 of WotR mentions Black Panther, Jane Foster and Doctor Strange making a desperate gamble. It could be anything, but considering who was mentioned... I'm not so sure about Jane, but the other two are probably some of the more likely candidates to make the gamble of trusting Loki.
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We know that BP was eyeing him for a spot as one of his agents, while Strange has trusted Loki in the past. And Jane has always had some faith in him restored.
Also, I was really worried at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy today when I saw the Asgardian font. But thankfully it wasn't Loki!
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I kinda hope that if Loki and Doreen do end up becoming friends, so he is friends with both her and Nancy, he may join their li'l band of Scoobies, become their Spike, I guess. so he'll show up more often, like her other friends, Koi Boi, Chipmunk Hunk etc. I mean, he will need something to occupy his time after War of the Realms, right? Maybe Ratatoskr can make a comeback as previously teased. But brom the interview and solicit, I do get the impression he may be using her, cus that's just what he does, so that may hamper that.
The desperate gamble was followed by 'Valhalla awaits' so I dunno, it may just be that they are going to pull a stunt similar to what Thor did in Hel, dying but not really kinda thing. Of course, Loki was a part of Thor's plan there, so...
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So a couple interesting things in Asgardians of the Galaxy today in regards to Loki. First off, they didn't make actually finding Sera a story at all, it was just Loki snapping his fingers and *poof* there she is, though (and this is more to do with Angela than Loki, but still, while I'm on the topic) it seems she was just hanging out with Yondu and didn't come looking for Angela at all, and one of the mercenaries she was with referred to Angela as Sera's 'ex'. So it feels to me like Sera is kind of over Angela, but not the other way around, though she did greet Angela warmly. A little sad if that's the case, even if i did find her incredibly grating in Queen of Hel (but not here, I think she's fine here) but then, I kinda hated the entire run of that... anyway, so yeah, Loki just.... teleported them all to Sera, just like that, but it seemed to really drain him. And no one thanked him, (though a couple showed concern) and they kinda played up him being upset about that. It felt as though he felt unappreciated when he did good and kept his word. It was mostly in the art, just a lot of shots of him moping in the background, but he did say something odd, in all that. He said to Annabelle, when she asked if he was ok, that he was "becoming painfully aware of what becomes of a soul when it is no longer of use." This could be interpreted as him simply thinking that without a debt making it necessary for Angela to keep him around, they may just opt to ditch him. (and the upcoming cover for issue 8 seems to support this...) but the wording was kind of odd. Why use the word 'soul' there, for instance? I'm kinda thinking that may have been a hint as to his true nature, and possibly why he took the form of Kid Loki. What if Loki, knowing some terrible things would need to be done in the whole War of the Realms mess, separated his soul, or at least the part that seems to have given him his newfound morality of late, out into "Kid Loki" here? What if this is his separated soul wondering if Loki Prime has use of him any more? Also, it does reveal that this Loki does have some limits to his power, and is not just a walking deus ex machina as i was fearing, even if his power levels are quite high, since the port to Ego did drain him considerably, and he did seem completely exhausted afterward and wasn't even able to maintain a simple illusion to hide some fleeing refugees for more than a minute or so. We will have to see if he recovers, but if not, it may be that Loki simply gave this projection/soul or whatever he is a finite store of power to use up, and once it's gone, that's it. Remains to be seen if when the power is gone, he goes too.
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He didn't look mopey to me. He looked sick. He even says that he doesn't feel much like himself, which is something someone normally says when they're sick or not feeling well.
So yeah, I'm in on this theory that he's sort of exhausting his own life force.
He is missing from the covers...
So yeah, I think it's confirmed that the Logan Loki is hanging out with might not be our Logan. 616 Logan has no cosmic powers and has some memory issues.
I can't wait for War of the Realms so we can have Loki stuff to talk about!
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I think the Logan from that Infinity thing and the Avengers rescue from the Celestials is probably from the future. I'm thinking it's either that when he 'died' in Thor, he really traveled back in time, in order to prevent the bad future before it can happen, but that doesn't really explain why he doesn't look super old any more. So it may also be that he's from the future, but not as far in the future as the King Thor stuff is set. Of course, King Thor is thousands of years off, so that doesn't really narrow it down a whole lot, and would create a sort of paradox. I kinda lean towards the time traveled when he 'died' scenario, and he's just using the Phoenix Force to look younger for reasons.
And yeah Loki was definitely feeling bad, physically, but I also think there was some moping going on, like his little 'no need to thank me' gripe and stuff. either way though, yeah I think "Kid Loki" has not much time left, but my hope is that he can transfer his memories and such back into his Prime body/mind before he goes, so that he can get something from it, sort of like what happened with the time displaced X-Men. I also hope that, in that scenario, even if he takes a break for War of the Realms, he goes back to the team, though in his regular adult body, after it is done, and it's shown that they want or at least accept him being there without a debt forcing the issue.
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My problem with Asgardians of the Galaxy is just how directionless the book feels. Bunn obviously is having his fun and it's a great book, but I'm not seeing the point.
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I think the point is just to tell some fun stories with some under utilized characters who either would not be able to support a solo book at all, or are kind of between books. I think Loki and Angela are the only ones who could carry a solo at all, and even there, it would probably be a low selling one in either case, unfortunately, judging by their past books. But put them together with a few others and it may be able to consolidate the audiences. Didn't seem to draw in a ton of readers though, unless it's huge in digital, but it was worth a shot. I don't think books necessarily have to have a 'point' to them, or be building to something big. Most of the time it's just telling stories that are fun and make good use of the characters involved, though they may have something to say beyond that, and i wouldn't really complain if it had something more to say, but sometimes fun is enough.
*that being said, I think Sif could have drawn in some readers, though she wouldn't have fit well with team theme of second chances and/or proving yourself when others underestimate you. But from a purely reader-grabbing perspective, i think she has a lot more draw than like, Skurge or Throg. And hiding Loki's presence for the first few issues probably didn't help on that front, even if i was pretty sure right from the first announcement that it was probably him in the Destroyer, not everyone would have thought that.
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[QUOTE=Raye;4184833]I think the point is just to tell some fun stories with some under utilized characters who either would not be able to support a solo book at all, or are kind of between books. I think Loki and Angela are the only ones who could carry a solo at all, and even there, it would probably be a low selling one in either case, unfortunately, judging by their past books. But put them together with a few others and it may be able to consolidate the audiences. Didn't seem to draw in a ton of readers though, unless it's huge in digital, but it was worth a shot. I don't think books necessarily have to have a 'point' to them, or be building to something big. Most of the time it's just telling stories that are fun and make good use of the characters involved, though they may have something to say beyond that, and i wouldn't really complain if it had something more to say, but sometimes fun is enough.
*that being said, I think Sif could have drawn in some readers, though she wouldn't have fit well with team theme of second chances and/or proving yourself when others underestimate you. But from a purely reader-grabbing perspective, i think she has a lot more draw than like, Skurge or Throg. And hiding Loki's presence for the first few issues probably didn't help on that front, even if i was pretty sure right from the first announcement that it was probably him in the Destroyer, not everyone would have thought that.[/QUOTE]
I just think most books do well to have an underlying plot. I'm not feeling that here.
Of course, it's still a great book and Bunn knows how to use these characters.
I'm not sure Sif is really anymore of a draw anymore. Well, she's definitely more of a draw than those two lol
So, are there any Loki moments everyone is looking forward to in War of the Realms?
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Dammit, I had this all typed out then lost power for a few seconds, and all gone, and no 'restore content' option, ugh. :( Well, here we go again...
Well, the first arc was tied into the Infinity stuff and was the team coming together due to those events, so there wasn't a lot to how they came together that bound them together thematically. But now that the horn has been found, and Sera was found in like, 1 issue, they will need a new reason to stay together, since the starting plot based reason has been resolved. And I think that's what we are getting into with the second arc, and have gotten into a bit already. But as I mentioned, there is already a theme to the team members, in that they are all in need of a chance to prove their worth, (aside from kinda Valkyrie, because she shares a body with Annabelle) and that has even been a plot point at times. Loki and Skurge are both ex villains who are trying to turn over a new leaf, and need a chance to be able to prove they are genuine in their desire to change. Angela needs a chance to prove she can be accepted as an Asgardian, after being raised by the angels, and needs a second chance after the whole kidnapping incident. Annabelle needs to prove she's not the frail damsel who can't defend herself, in need of constant protection from her stronger half. (and Loki gave her that chance last issue, though it is debatable how well she would have fared without the Nova helmet) Throg is a damn frog, and is not taken seriously as a result, despite having tremendous power and the mind of a man in that amphibious body. Thunderstrike has to prove he's worthy to take up his father's mantle, and as we saw in his flashback, people don't generally tend to think very highly of him right now. And the new recruit, the dwarf, who has a second chance after siding with Nebula (albeit, under duress). So I'd say that though it hasn't been explored a lot so far, the theme is proving your worth, and that everyone should get the chance to do so. Also maybe a side of doing what's needed, or doing your best, even if others don't think you're capable. That other people's opinions don't dictate your worth. And I am guessing it will delve more into this in the second arc onward, assuming it isn't cancelled after the second arc.
In War of the Realms, I'd like to see the teases and hints about Laufey and Loki, and whether Loki is really his son solidly resolved. I'd also like to see Loki backstab Malekith in a spectacular fashion.
And i was browsing Youtube, and came across this bit of interesting speculation:
[video=youtube;lyUCMn0Jucs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyUCMn0Jucs[/video]
It made me go hmmm... very interesting possibilities. Also, it mentioned something i had missed previously. You know the speculation that was going around to explain Loki's full on heel turn in Avengers was that he was himself being controlled by the Mind Gem, and that the 'puny god' beatdown snapped him out of it? apparently that's been confirmed! looked into it, and it seems that on the official websites, it mentions that he was in fact under control of the Mind Gem during Avengers. So that's good to know, but i do wish it was actually mentioned IN THE MOVIES. But maybe it will be in one of the flashback scenes they were filming for the next movie, there were set photos of Hiddleston in his Avengers costume, so there is definitely a flashback involving him.
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On the War of the Realms thread, someone said that Infinity Watch takes place AFTER WotR and before Uncanny X-Men #11. So...yeah, this whole timeline is weird and **** if anyone knows how to make sense out of it.
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Did they have a source for that? Because that makes no sense whatsoever. There was nothing in there saying that was the case, they usually have a disclaimer for books that take place at a time that would put them significantly out of sync with most other books (see the [URL="https://comicsverse.com/the-unbeatable-squirrel-girl-41-preview/"]preview for this week's Squirrel Girl[/URL] for an example) and it makes no sense at all with what we saw in the books. The Avengers team that showed up to try and stop Gamora didn't include Blade and did include Dr Strange, which places it solidly before the current arc of Avengers, because Strange left and was replaced with Blade (at least temporarily) which takes place prior to War of the Realms. Black Panther also talked about the Infinity stuff in the Avengers book in the past tense. He laid out the timeline pretty solidly there, Celestial invasion, Infinity stuff, then Loki dropped off the map. So if he's talking about Loki's involvement in the past tense while simultaneously talking about a coming war... And probably most significantly Asgardians of the Galaxy spun out of the Infinity stuff, Loki specifically said that the horn was created to be used in the War of the Realms, and that the victor of the War would be determined by their actions, they are right now safeguarding the horn so that it is not misused in said war. Asgardians of the Galaxy will also be tying into War of the Realms, so Asgardians of the Galaxy definitely takes place before War of the Realms. so yeah, until I see something official from Marvel I am not buying that the Infinity stuff takes place after War of the Realms. And even if Marvel made an official statement, that makes no damn sense.
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He did not. Honestly, they were going over the timeline and between all the different events, it is such a mess that it makes my brain hurt.
My only theory is that the X-Office and the other creative teams aren't in contact and the editors are just doing their best.
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the timeline isn't complicated, imo, at least as far as the Thor, Infinity and Avenegers stuff goes. It is pretty much as Black Panther said.
-Hel arc of Thor
-Celestial invasion
-Wolverine rescues Loki
-Infinity stuff
-Asgardians of the Galaxy first arc (concurrently with the infinity stuff)
-Second arc of Avengers onward
-Events in Thor since Hel
-Guardians of the Galaxy (may end up being relevant, cus Hela and Beta Ray Bill)
-Asgardians of the Galaxy second arc
last 3 or 4 items happen more or less concurrently with each other
It lines up pretty well, actually, even if the Celestial thing was difficult to pinpoint as it was happening, in hindsight it fits. Mainly because Loki is able to be two places at once due to "Kid Loki". I've fallen way behind on X-Men so not sure how that fits in, but if it doesn't fit I'm placing that on X-editorial screwing up, and we just kinda have to roll with that rather than moving around the core pieces to make the X-stuff fit, because I consider that sort of extra to the core timeline which is found in Avengers and Thor. But I think there, the key thing is as we speculated on the previous page, there has to be two Wolverines, the one with the Phoenix Force, the one that rescued Loki and stole the Space Gem from him before that, is most likely from the future.
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[QUOTE=Raye;4193665]the timeline isn't complicated, imo, at least as far as the Thor, Infinity and Avenegers stuff goes. It is pretty much as Black Panther said.
-Hel arc of Thor
-Celestial invasion
-Wolverine rescues Loki
-Infinity stuff
-Asgardians of the Galaxy first arc (concurrently with the infinity stuff)
-Second arc of Avengers onward
-Events in Thor since Hel
-Guardians of the Galaxy (may end up being relevant, cus Hela)
-Asgardians of the Glaxy second arc
last 3 or 4 items happen more or less concurrently with each other
It lines up pretty well, actually, even if the Celestial thing was difficult to pinpoint as it was happening, in hindsight it fits. Mainly because Loki is able to be two places at once due to "Kid Loki". I've fallen way behind on X-Men so not sure how that fits in, but if it doesn't fit I'm placing that on X-editorial screwing up, and consider that sort of extra to the core timeline which is found in Avengers and Thor. But I think there, the key thing is as we speculated on the previous page, there has to be two Wolverines, the one with the Phoenix Force, the one that rescued Loki and stole the Space Gem from him before that, is most likely from the future.[/QUOTE]
But that's what I meant. Everything is fine until you try and add in the X-Men books. Then it's a mess.
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So the X-offices fucked up and we can ignore them, no need to rejigger things in the core books, or do drastic things like move the Infinity stuff to after War of the Realms concludes, to force them to comply. Avengers, Thor and the main War of the Realms book once it starts are the key thing, they are steering the ship here, other books have to follow their lead, not the other way around, that's just the way it is. If things don't fit with what those 3 books say is the timeline, that's just someone fucking up and that's the end of it. If someone screwed up it will never fit, so there is no point in trying.
that being said, this is not the first time it's become clear that different editorial teams are not sharing enough information about events that multiple books tie into, and that really needs to be addressed.
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X-Office forks ups are as common as Loki wearing green these days.
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Sadly true. I got into Marvel via the X-books, right as Morrison and Casey came aboard, and went back and read some of the past stories, and there have definitely been things I have enjoyed since then, I like the X-Men. but it's also very chaotic, like they keep changing their minds about things midway through something, and don't communicate with the rest of the editors very well at all... And in this case, i think it will probably just be best to kind of pretend they aren't really involved, since, though I don't know the specifics, I am 3 or 4 months behind on the X-books at the moment, it sounds like another case of editorial miscommunication screwing everything up, so it won't make sense. I just don't see the point of making things more complicated than they need to be because one aspect is not playing nice with the other parts that [I]are[/I] playing nice with each other. Just.... acknowledge that part is not working well with the continuity, and either ignore it or roll with it.
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The thing is, I feel like the actual books are in a really interesting place right now, but it just feels like there are two teams right now-the X-Office and Team Aaron, as it seems like most Marvel writers are working with Aaron on his WotR. So it feels like both groups are doing a great job, editorial just isn't working to create cohesive narrative.
Marvel isn't DC and more should be done to correct this.
Also, what stories do you guys want about Loki or Asgard after this is over?
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Yeah, individual books are often quite good, I've liked lots of X-runs quite a bit, it's just that they don't seem to fit in to the rest of the MU very well sometimes. It's often easier to think of the X-books happening in their own universe, and this is kind of another example of that. And yeah, that's down to editorial, not the writers. The writers can write brilliantly, but if they are given poor information about an event or something, (or vice versa, where the editors of the X-books aren't giving enough information to the main architects of the event) it won't fit together. Like, I gave Infinity whatever a lot of flak, but it does at least seem to tie in to the War of the Realms in a way that makes sense, but what's weird there is that it's the same editor as Uncanny X-Men, so i dunno if Duggan just did the legwork himself, talked to Aaron directly or something, to make it tie in properly or what.
Buy yeah, this is the Loki thread, that line of discussion is getting way off topic. It's a bit hard to say what I'd like after War of the Realms considering we don't yet know what will happen during the event, but if the event goes as I hope it will, with Loki helping out the goo guys, albeit with highly unconventional means, I kinda just hope they just build off that, with more characters figuring out what hie did, what his motivations were seeing how they react to that, but mostly Thor. And just see him go further down that path. I'd like to see him make more positive connections, like with Squirrel girl kinda thing, too. I want more frenemy shenanigans with Dr Strange.
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I want a slice if life book with Loki. Just him hanging out with people and doing stuff. Also, a little more Lady Loki.
And a love interest, because why not?